Bill Maher doubles down on insulting phrase, defies sexism charge.

[MineralMan]

It was reported today that Bill Maher insulted Bristol Palin by saying, "The shit doesn't fall far from the bat." That may lead people to think that he's somewhat misogynistic in his attitude, perhaps. Well, it turns out that he wasn't exactly being original or misogynistic with that insult. Previously, he also applied the same phrase to Rand Paul. You can see and hear it at the link below:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos/2010/05/22/maher-on-rand-paul-the-shit-doesnt-fall-far-from-the-bat.html

And, as anyone who has been inside a bat cave can appreciate, it is a true statement, and probably an ancient insult, adapted to political figures and erstwhile celebrities by Bill Maher, being the the wag that he is. Not a particularly original wag, but a wag with equal opportunity in mind.

Well, at least it's not sexism. He's an equal opportunity insulter, it seems.

[aquart]

1. Yeah. He is.

[MineralMan]

2. An unoriginal wag?

What?

[TheKentuckian]

3. What would possibly seen as sexist about that?

I'm sure male bats shit at least as much as females.

Folks need to get that disparaging remarks toward a woman is not sexism and in fact, pretending such is sexist.

Good call.

[MineralMan]

5. I didn't understand the thinking either.

But, I've been inside a bat cave, and can attest to the truth of the insult. So, maybe my personal knowledge gets in the way of my clarity of thought. :shrug:

[alphafemale]

8. If a women is so fragile she needs to be protected from people saying harsh, nasty things about her?

She has no DAMN REASON in HELL to think she should be any where near the Oval Office.

Are they FUCKING kidding?

[dkf]

13. I don't get it either.

I hate it when people use "sexism" so reflexively.

[Luminous Animal]

30. Except nobody is except a few disgruntled right wing idiots.

[Darth_Kitten]

22. People can figure out for themselves what is and isn't sexism....

n/t

[MineralMan]

24. People also often make mistakes figuring out things.

:shrug:

[Darth_Kitten]

27. People can also dismiss and disregard real sexism.

:shrug:

[Luminous Animal]

29. No feminist, as far as I can tell. But it does open up the opportunity for feminist bashing.

I searched all the leading feminist blogs and orgs and could not find one that has commented about that phrase.

The only charge of sexism that I could find was on the liberal bashing Newsbusters site.

[seabeyond]

70. i almost always speak up and out against sexism. i didnt feel the need to say anything about this.

and maher certainly is a sexist pig, but i wouldn't hang it on this line.

i agree with you

gives a lot of men a position to attack females, sexism and daring to speak out. that appears to be the only thing it accomplished, per this thread so far.

[Raine]

36. Neither do I, bats come in two sexes so what

the hell is the big deal. :shrug: Some people are always looking to make something out of nothing. :argh:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

65. It's Maher

He's always sexist, no matter what he says or does. Hell, it's mandatory here at DU to qualify that you recognize him as a sexist pig even when referring to him in passing.

[MADem]

4. To suggest that "batshit" --as in batshit crazy-- is a sexist term is a bridge too far.

He may have bouts of misogyny at times, but that was not one of them.

[MineralMan]

7. Bill Maher has always seemed to me to be ready to insult

just about anyone. I dunno. He's not one of my favorite comedians/satirists, really.

[Darth_Kitten]

23. Don't think many people are thinking "batshit" is sexist....

if it WAS, I wouldn't use it so often. ;)

[rurallib]

39. most teabagger wannabe politicians have been called batshit crazy on here

such as Cantor, Walker, Scott, Bachmann on and on and on

[Warpy]

6. Language police really have to reach far to get a sexist slur from that

Now if he'd said "OLD bat," they might have had more of a point. Right now, they just look ridiculous.

It was not a sexual slur in any way. It was a slur against stupid people who bring their children up to be just as ignorant, wrong headed, and stupid as they are.

[MineralMan]

11. Yup. It's an old phrase, not original with Mr. Maher.

And it means exactly what you said. If you visit a bat cave, you'll find that the bats hang in the same places each time. Below those places is a cone of their excrement. It does not fall far. The analogy is quite clear. Mr. Maher, in applying this saying to both the Palins and the Pauls gets a little more mileage out of it, since they're all batshit crazy, as well.

At least he waited a year between uses, though. Still not original.

[Luminous Animal]

31. In this case, the language police happens to be liberal bashing Newsbusters.

As far as I can tell (doing a google search), Newsbusters is where the accusation started and their "article" was catapulted amongst a handful of right wing web sites.

[vi5]

9. He is sexist and misogynistic, but that statement wasn't...

I've seen Bill Maher a couple of times over the years doing his stand up act. While I like about 80% of it, the other 20% of his act (at least as it was 15 years or so ago) was so ridiculously over the top hatefully sexist and misogynistic. I mean like using the C word over and over......talking more or less about how women are only good for sex, etc. It's been a while so the details are sketchy in my mind but I do remember being really taken aback by just how virulently sexist it was. In fact the first time I went was with a female friend and she just walked out because it was that bad. And she's no delicate flower about stuff like that.

The other times I saw him after that were the result of working in the places he was performing. Otherwise, after that first time I don't think I would have willingly gone to see him again myself even though I still like his tv shows (this was during Politically Incorrect days). I just think he has a big problem with women.

That being said, I don't see how calling a woman batshit insane is sexist at all.

[MineralMan]

12. Well, I've never been exposed to much of Bill Maher's humor.

He sort of puts me on edge a little, so I avoid watching him.

[EFerrari]

47. Agreed. He's down right creepy when it comes to sex and women

and frequently misogynistic without batting an eye. This wasn't one of those times.

[vi5]

69. Yeah, in fact....

I'd be hard pressed to think of a more textbook definition case of a misogynist than Bill Maher is. It's not just that he likes sex or likes women in a lacsivious way. There's that, but that is just creepy. But I genuinely get the impression that he thinks less of women in general. That their opinions are less valid, etc. I honestly think it's how he was (and maybe is) able to stay friends with Ann Coulter despite disagreeing with her on everything. I think is attitude about her and women in general is "Aww, isn't that cute. Look at the chick with her big strong opinions and stuff."

Which pains me because I agree with him and like his approach on a lot of other issues and towards politics in general. But it's often hard for me to get past how he is with and to women.

[enough]

10. I tend to be hypersensitive about this, as the mother of girls. I don't see this as sexist.

I see it as funny.

[pnwmom]

14. I suppose this goes back to a very old phrase, "the old bat,"

which always used to refer, disrespectfully, to women.

But bats do come in both genders.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/old+bat

1. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Animals) any placental mammal of the order Chiroptera, being a nocturnal mouselike animal flying with a pair of membranous wings (patagia). The group is divided into the Megachiroptera (fruit bats) and Microchiroptera (insectivorous bats) Related adjective chiropteran

2. Slang an irritating or eccentric woman (esp in the phrase old bat)

[MineralMan]

16. I don't think so.

It is an expression of its own, having to do with the habits of bats. Seriously. It's along the same line as "The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree." If you understand where bats live and how they live, you'll understand.

Old bat is a separate thing, really, having to do with the wrinkled appearance of most bats' faces. Again, you have to know bats well to get the reason for the expression.

Then there's "batshit crazy," the origin of which I do not know.

[Canuckistanian]

15. How is that misogynistic?

There was nothing gender-specific in that phrase.

[pnwmom]

17. Have you heard of the expression, "the old bat"?

Which was used to refer to annoying old women. Maybe this is connected with that.

[MineralMan]

20. See my previous reply above. I don't think so.

Different characteristic of the bat in this expression. Hence its use for both a male and female offspring by Maher.

[Canuckistanian]

32. I made no such connection

But I did make a connection to "batshit crazy", which is also non-gender specific.

[Stevenmarc]

35. You would have to be a contortionist to make a stretch like that.

[Capitalocracy]

45. I didn't even think of that

I don't think Bill Maher did either, but I could be wrong. I think it's the same thing he said about Rand Paul, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, the shit doesn't fall far from the bat, Sarah Palin and Ron Paul are batshit crazy, get it? That's the joke. I think the old bat thing doesn't have anything to do with it. Probably.

[Liberal Veteran]

51. It is a little known fact that if one goes looking for insult in another person's words...

...one rarely fails to find it.

That's how I see it anyway.

[MineralMan]

18. I don't really know. It could be that some people associate

the phrase with calling women "old bats," but the saying Maher used is really the same as "The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree." Knowing the habits of bats, I knoe that the shit doesn't fall far from the bat, either.

In any case, it refers to parents passing along their bad (and good) characteristics to their children. Acorns...bat shit...same thing.

[Canuckistanian]

33. That's such an old expression

I didn't even think of such an association between bats and old women.

Especially because Palin is nowhere near "old"

[alsame]

19. I have heard the term 'bat shit crazy' applied to both

men and women. I'm female and don't consider it a sexist phrase at all.

[MineralMan]

21. I think some folks misunderstood the phrase, actually.

To get it instantly, you have to have been around bats and know the old saw, "the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree," which expresses the same sentiment.

No sexism intended by Maher in this case.

[alsame]

25. That's exactly what I thought when I heard it - it was a play

on the acorn/tree adage suggesting the Palins are bat shit crazy.

[PeaceNikki]

26. So.... a guy who had a show for 9 years titled "Politically Incorrect" is occasionally

politically incorrect?!? What!?

Stop the presses!

[Luminous Animal]

28. Who is accusing him of sexism over that sentence? Links?

[MADem]

40. Batshit crazy right-wingnuts.

Specifically, these nitwits: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/06/25/bill-maher-bristol-palin-s-t-doesnt-fall-far-bat

[Luminous Animal]

43. Yep. Other than Mineral Man that is the only source I could find.

[MineralMan]

48. There's a thread here on DU.

On edit: Actually I will link to the DU thread that sparked this one: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1366665

That's not calling anyone out or continuing a locked thread. You can read the thread for yourself.

[Luminous Animal]

49. You mean that one comment??!!!! You've just taken "some people say" to another level.

[MineralMan]

50. It prompted this thread. What more can I say?

And it wasn't just one comment.

I did some research. I posted additional information. If that's a problem for you...:shrug:

Have a nice Sunday evening.

[Zax2me]

34. He's a misogynist with or without this comment

Just because this may or may not be a good example or a good excuse because it is not progressive women (this time) he is attacking doesn't change the fact.

[Book Lover]

37. Thank you (nm)

[Zax2me]

38. links

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=341x10177


http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/2/83236/46536
Maher: But look at Hillary Clinton. Because the first thing a woman does, of course, is cry. “I just want to be happy. Why can’t you just love me?”

[Raine]

42. That seems to me like arresting someone for a crime they didn't commit

just because they have committed crimes in the past. When he actually does says something sexiest he should be dumped on then but not for something that wasn't.

[undeterred]

46. Yes, the data is already in on this.

[TlalocW]

41. He should have said that she was like a stream of bat's piss

When all around her is dark, she shines out like a shaft of gold.

(Monty Python)

TlalocW

[justiceischeap]

44. It seems to me it was a play on "apple doesn't fall far from the tree"

Meaning that Sarah Palin is the bat, and her kids are shit. I don't see it as sexist just kinda mean.

[WinkyDink]

54. "Mean"? Yes, let's be SENSITIVE about the Palins!

[WinkyDink]

52. I think he's a hoot!

[backscatter712]

53. I'm gonna have to steal that one!

"The shit doesn't fall far from the bat!"

The people whining about this being "sexist" are clearing stretching, desperate for an excuse to act all offended.

[WinkyDink]

55. Not to mention tone-deaf and unaware!

[pintobean]

56. You don't care so much, you started your own thread about it.

:rofl:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1366665&mesg_id=1367098

[MineralMan]

58. I did start my own thread about it, didn't I?

Nice of you to notice. Thanks for dropping by and kicking it. After that previous thread, I spent some time doing a bit of research, because it didn't make sense to me. Then, as you were so kind to notice, I started another thread to clarify what Maher had said. That's a privilege I have by being a member of DU, just like you. I'm still not a Maher fan, but I'm a big fan of getting stuff right.

Thanks for linking to the other thread. I already did that in this one, though.

Have a great week!

[pintobean]

62. I'll kick it again

It's some silly shit.

[MineralMan]

63. My thanks to you, pintobean.

I hope people see this thread, and you've certainly helped get it back to the top of the General Discussion list.

[October]

57. WHO exactly is accusing him (or this statement) as sexist?

Everyone is responding with accusations of people being oversensitive...

Anyway, I thought it was funny -- and haven't heard anyone call this particular comment sexist.

[MineralMan]

59. I read it here on DU. There are a couple of links in the thread

to the place I read it. I did some research and posted this thread to try to clear up the issue. Thanks for reading the thread.

[seabeyond]

71. when thread first appeared, i ignored. reading thread, i see men bashing women being "sensitive"

i am not seeing any women outraged over the comment.

and maher is a sexist pig. not to do with this comment.

but plenty of men telling women to STFU

[undeterred]

60. That's likeTiger Woods denying he has extramarital sex.

Bill Maher is constitutionally sexist.

[MineralMan]

61. Well, that could be. I don't really follow Maher. In this case,

however, no sexism was involved, as you'll see if you read my OP.

Is Maher sexist? Could be. I don't know. This joke wasn't

[Luminous Animal]

64. I think 99.99% of the world's population knows that the joke wasn't sexist.

Certainly, there is zero evidence that any feminists consider it sexist so all you have to support the joke, "may lead people to think that he's somewhat misogynistic in his attitude, perhaps," is an idiot on Newsbusters and one anonymous poster here.

I do note that your generalization did lead a few people to throw digs at people who do decry actual misogyny.

[Raine]

66. Doesn't change the fact that what he said this time was NOT sexiest

and calling that sexiest when it isn't diminishes things that really are.

[undeterred]

68. Well, that's true.

He's just offended me so many times I can't watch his show any more.

[hay rick]

67. It's just funny.

I have heard Sarah Palin routinely described as "batshit crazy" almost from day one. I think the description must have nearly universal currency by now. If you google the term, you will notice that 3 of the first 6 images for batshit crazy are Sarah Palin. With Sarah, batshit crazy has passed from being an insult to being an honorific.

I see her getting the last laugh, though. I understand the trademark office just got an application for "batshit crazy®​".

[Bluenorthwest]

72. Why on earth would you think that is sexist? Where do you get

that at all? Insulting sure, sexist? No. To think so brings that bat to mind again.