Bachmann and the Women's Vote

[SoDesuKa]

Some of the attacks on Michele Bachmann imply that she's ditsy. If Bachmann gets the Republican nomination, that line of attack will generate sympathy for her. Bachmann's voting record and her own statements are certainly fair game, but calling her an upstart is not. Critics need to be careful to avoid stigmatizing Bachmann because of her gender.



Will Republicans Break Glass Ceiling?

[redwitch]

1. Calling her ditzy is perfectly ok by me.

She is ditzy. :shrug:

[SoDesuKa]

2. That's a Stereotype

Democrats need to bend over backwards to avoid stereotyping female candidates. The last thing we need is a sympathy vote for Bachmann.

[onehandle]

3. Didn't help the quitter. nt

[CarmanK]

4. IOKIYR! The media, repubs had no trouble attacking Hillary!!

Just because she is a republican does not give her a pass because she will be their poster child for
women's rights.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lumberjack_jeff]

6. Defending Bachmann does women a disservice. n/t

[Liquorice]

7. I've noticed that some democrats are going down a bad road

when it comes to female republican candidates. Calling bitch, ditsy, and other sexist names is not only wrong, but will alienate many women. I know I am feeling very alienated by those lines of attack.

After seeing the overall tone against women here, I do believe republicans will be the party that will have the first woman president because there is too much surprisingly seething misogyny on the democratic side. Look at how Hillary Clinton was treated around here in '08. It was horrendous.

And if a republican woman does win the presidency, I bet there will be relentless sexist attacks against her from the left, in much the way republicans use racist attacks against Obama.

[SoDesuKa]

17. Shame-Based Attacks

Many of the attacks on Michele Bachmann are rooted in shaming her for being ambitious. That will generate lots of sympathy for Bachmann, especially among people who've been the victim of shame attacks.



Shame-based attacks will backfire against us

[lunasun]

18. agree - will be a pug

[Whisp]

27. you are correct.

it's never right to call women down like that.
we could Never get away with names like that for gay people, or for any ethnic group, etc. But it's always okay to do that to women it seems.

[Gemini Cat]

8. I don't know, but I suspect most women

are bright enough to see through bachmann and won't cast their vote for her. In other words, they won't vote for bachmann just because she's a woman. Women who do vote for her would have done so anyway.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

9. Whose sympathy will that get? Repukes, who always vote for the evil ditzes. nt

[elleng]

10. I agree. "Upstart" not similar, sounds like 'young,' to me, not pejorative like ditsy.

[Cleita]

11. Ditsy is not what I would attack her on, but she

should be attacked for her ties to the religious right. We really have to insist that separation of church and state applies to our politicians. Back when Kennedy ran for President the Republicans had no problem attacking him about his Catholicism and that he could be taking orders from the Vatican. Of course that was ridiculous, but in her case and in Madam Sarah's case, they very much are being backed and funded by the religious right and they will base policy on what those church people want.

[riderinthestorm]

12. As a woman (and Hillary supporter), I am going way beyond ditzy, and into full blown batshit crazy.

Sorry but if that descriptor works to describe her and her positions, I'm sticking by it.

I believe what is more problematic for us in regards to Bachmann is to mock her without full intent. "Ditzy" isn't serious. I haven't seen anyone imply that she's ditzy. Like Palin they either love her madly or think she's batshit crazy.

I am all for the incredulous stare and a gasp! and a wtf! followed by "you've got to be kidding me?" horror/shock when confronted by anyone who is a Bachmann supporter. Followed by a discussion of hard core facts if the person is willing to listen. Even that probably won't make a dent. Any followers of Bachmann's are part of the 25%'ers who can't be reached logically, if ever.

Forget small time shit like "ditzy", go for the gusto.

[SoDesuKa]

24. Talking Point

Calling Michele Bachmann batshit crazy is just a talking point, and it's risky. The attacks on Sarah Palin were largely shaming attacks, but the canny Palin turned them to her financial advantage. However . . . shaming attacks aren't one-size-fits-all. Using them against Bachmann may generate enough sympathy for her that it could throw some toss-up states her way.

What's more important - winning the 2012 election? Or punishing some female for her uppity ways?



Shaming Bachmann for her uppity ways

[riderinthestorm]

25. Can we have a discussion on "shaming" a candidate vs. a reality based convo on their positions?

Bachmann is truly out there (Palin too). It's not "shaming" to say it's batshit crazy to exhort Alaska to secede. It's batshit for Bachmann to believe gays are "sinful in gawd's eyes". It's batshit to believe gawd talks to her personally.

These aren't "uppity ways", they are batshit and to let them slide because they are espoused by women - may I say letting them slide especially because they are espoused by women is CRAZY! To call this 'shaming" because they are female candidates is truly harmful at this stage of the game.

Only Rethugs will try to frame criticism of their positions as "shaming" but that SHOULD be easy to counter. Obama's candidacy proved the model. If they couldn't figure out a way to "shame" that uppity black man on his positions (a truly intelligent human being with a breathtaking command of the facts), then we can learn how to critique idiot politicians like Palin and Bachmann without alienating their base as a female candidate.

Sarah Palin's popularity doesn't derive from being shamed imho. She's managed to garner GW Bush's 25% because they are folks who simply want to have a beer with a politician, low information voters who vote how Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and Fox News tell them how to vote.

[SoDesuKa]

28. Provocative Statements

I'm not seeing stupidity in Bachmann's provocative statements. I see a crafty politician who gets attention by saying unusual things. Take her statement that she would consider ending the minimum wage, for example. She said that she would consider it, not that she actually would do it.

Bachmann's a presidential contender, entirely self made. She gets the press talking about her. Track her statements back and they're not as controversial as they seem.

I also think she may consciously be baiting the Democrats to use a gender-shaming attack against her. She's no dummy.

[undeterred]

13. She's the candidate for the self-loathing woman.

[lunasun]

16. she may appeal to soccer/safety moms and I am already afraid of her popularity bat shit or not

[Bluenorthwest]

14. She's a misinformed, lying hypocrite.

How's that?

[SoDesuKa]

19. Punishing Republican Women for Having Ambition

Republican women should not be subject to shame-based attacks. It's not OK for us to pick up any weapon at all to use against Bachmann. Some things are off limits, and shame is certainly one of them.



Shaming should be off limits

[Kahuna]

15. Puh-leese. Don't lecture me, Bro.

:eyes:

[SoDesuKa]

20. It's a Loser

Democrats can't afford to spot the Republicans a sympathy vote in 2012. It's going to be a tough election to win. The last thing we need is to give away advantages.

[blue neen]

21. I have no sympathy for Michele Bachmann whatsoever.

Bachmann doesn't seem very bright, she doesn't do her homework, and she's a lying hypocrite. All of those words could describe many Republican candidates, male or female.

:dem:

edited for typo.

[spanone]

22. how about stupid, ignorant zealot?

:shrug:

[Beaverhausen]

23. Flakey, not ditsy. What she is is stupid and proud of it

all the right wingers are.

[Hugabear]

26. So we can call Rick Perry batshit crazy, but not Michelle Bachman?

I agree with attacks that are gender-specific. But to say that we cannot attack her intelligence simply because she's a woman? Fuck that.

[deacon]

29. What the hells the difference of what you call her as long as it accurate. Too bad for overly

sensitive. Is Bachmann sensitive to screwing the middle class into the ground? She don't give a shit. She's like the rest of the GOP. Screw that. I'll call her anything I damn well please.

[SoDesuKa]

30. Overly Sensitive

There will be a backlash against Democrats who refuse to take Michele Bachmann seriously. It gives the appearance of sexism and for all practical purposes it may actually be sexism.

There was a lot of sexism in the attacks on Sarah Palin, who was canny enough to turn them to her financial advantage. Similar attacks on Michele Bachmann suggest a reluctance to give up certain kinds of unearned privilege, and Bachmann is an adroit enough politician to respond appropriately.

Ridiculing Michele Bachmann is probably counterproductive in that it gains her more support than it costs her. The 2012 election is going to be tough enough to win even without giving away sympathy votes to the other side.