woo me with science
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:04 AM
Original message |
Okay, here's a question that will be called flamebait, but I am honestly interested in the response: |
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People here are comparing calling Obama a "dick" with calling Ingraham a "slut." But are they really the same?
"Slut" is a sexist term and an attack against all women. Are we now saying that using the word "dick" equals being sexist against men and is just as bad?
Or are we just protecting the reputation of our leader?
For the record, I personally do think "dick" is sexist just like "slut." But after reading thousands of posts here, I suspect a lot of DUers wouldn't agree, because woman have traditionally been the victims of sexism and lack the power of men. Nobody here would have had seen sexism if anyone called Bush a dick, and I think most would have considered the term merited.
So is calling Obama a dick just like calling any woman a slut? Or do you just not want the President insulted in crude terms in our media?
Should calling a President a dick be held at the same level of outrage as calling a woman a slut?
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Shagbark Hickory
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:05 AM
Response to Original message |
1. Don't be silly. Men aren't allowed to claim sexism. nt |
dionysus
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:05 AM
Response to Original message |
2. it's not like calling women a slut, it's like calling obama an asshole. |
woo me with science
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
4. So it's about being crude on air and lowering the discourse? nt |
dionysus
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
meegbear
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:06 AM
Response to Original message |
3. To me, "dick" is more than a "jerk", but less than an "asshole" ... |
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but a reporter saying that about a political leader, especially the president, makes one wonder about impartiality.
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woo me with science
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:10 AM
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6. Is Halperin supposed to be impartial? |
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I thought he was a commentator and not an anchor.
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mucifer
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:09 AM
Response to Original message |
5. It's calling our President a male organ. Yuck. It's offensive. |
woo me with science
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
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So this is about degrading the public discourse.
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lapislzi
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:15 AM
Response to Original message |
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"Slut" alludes to the (likely irrelevant) sexual behavior of a person, usually a woman.
"Dick" is the use of sexual/anatomical vocabulary, considered vulgar, to describe especially repugnant behavior, usually from a man. Not necessarily behavior of a sexual nature.
These are not equivalent terms, although both are vulgar and offensive.
In my opinion, "slut" is the worse pejorative, because it drags a person's sexual history into a discussion ostensibly NOT about sex.
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woo me with science
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
lapislzi
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
15. And...as others have said |
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The person who resorts to using such words not only lowers the discourse, but tacitly admits that their own ideas have given out. (Apologies to Lao Tzu, or Confucius, or whoever it was who said it before me).
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blogslut
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:19 AM
Response to Original message |
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Edited on Thu Jun-30-11 08:20 AM by blogslut
Halperin's choice of descriptor doesn't offend me. It was the content of his comment that offended me. Calling out Republicans for their greedy, grabby, whiny, stubborn, selfish behavior is a good thing and Mr. Halperin shows where his allegiances lie when he sides with the GOP.
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Birdiesmom
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:20 AM
Response to Original message |
12. They are not the same. |
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"Slut" implies a moral lapse -- i.e., virtual or literal prostitution. "Dick" just means a person is being majorly unpleasant -- i.e., a serious jerk, leading with his gonads instead of his brain, as it were. I think the word "slut" has been tossed around casually against women, when in fact it is a demeaning and harmful term. Perhaps an argument can be made that "dick" is also a harmful term, but it doesn't imply any moral laxity on the part of the person so named.
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woo me with science
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
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that is a brilliant explanation. Thank you.
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On the Road
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:21 AM
Response to Original message |
13. I Don't Think "Dick" is Sexist, |
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since it doesn't signify any type of societal discrimination against men.
As far as "slut" goes, I don't believe there's an equivalent concept for males. Men who have sex easily and frequently are not thought of as shamed in the way implied by "slut."
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woo me with science
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #13 |
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I wish I could reword my OP now, because it is very poorly expressed...but that wouldn't be fair to everyone who has already responded.
I think you are absolutely right.
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left coaster
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #18 |
38. There is a male equiv to slut.. |
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A man who has many/multiple sex partners is called a stud or a player, or some such. It's a positive term, you see. Yeah, we as a society are still pretty effed up.
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azul
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #13 |
25. Women have reputations to defend, men not so much. |
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It's when you call a man a slut that things get inverted, and wicked.
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MineralMan
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:22 AM
Response to Original message |
14. I'm surprised at all the concern about this, really. |
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Among insults Halperin might have used, "dick" is among the mildest. When I turned on Morning Jerk this morning, they were doing their extended apology about this. My wife and I were speculating about what might have been said. "Dick" was not in the mix of possibilities. I voted for "fucking asshole."
I was very surprised to hear what the offensive expression actually was. Yes, it was insulting. Yes, he shouldn't have said it. Yes, it's untrue. But, really, it's not that potent an insult. It's really not.
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woo me with science
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
WinkyDink
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
28. Just shows how coarse our culture is, in some places. The word is a VULGARISM. |
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Edited on Thu Jun-30-11 08:35 AM by WinkyDink
Not mere slang. Not a mere derogatory word.
It is, indeed, a word that is NOT SPOKEN ON NETWORK TELEVISION.
Do you have a clue now?
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MineralMan
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #28 |
41. It is vulgar, certainly, and should not have been said. |
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Daily, though, I see President Obama called a traitor, a closet Republican, a homophobe, a coward, a warmonger, and other insults right here on Democratic Underground. Some of the posts that do that are deleted, but most are left to stand. You see my dilemma with the uproar over this?
Yes, Halperin was wrong to say what he said. No question about it. Weighed in the balance of other things people call President Obama, it's a relatively minor insult.
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no_hypocrisy
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:26 AM
Response to Original message |
17. In some business circles, being called a "dick" is a term of admiration. |
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To my knowledge, "slut" has always been denigrating.
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woo me with science
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #17 |
WinkyDink
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #17 |
24. Absurd. It is a term of scorn in every "circle." |
scheming daemons
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:28 AM
Response to Original message |
21. calling a man a "dick" is the functional equivalent of calling a woman a "bitch" |
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it is used to convey the same thing about the individual in question.
But calling the President such a name is 100 times more offensive than calling a radio host/entertainer such a name.
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WinkyDink
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #21 |
23. Uh, check your anatomical terms again. |
scheming daemons
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #23 |
34. I am not talking about anatomy, I am talking about what the terms imply about a person |
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the terms bitch and dick imply the same personality traits about the person they're referring to.
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lapislzi
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #21 |
40. If anatomical equivalence is what you're after |
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The "C-word" (which I admit to using occasionally about really, really awful people) could be used to describe a female persona.
Although I think gender is irrelevant. A man can be a slut; a woman can be a dick.
Let's just use adult words, shall we?
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cbdo2007
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:30 AM
Response to Original message |
22. If you are a man, you can't charge sexism. Just like if you are white, you can't charge racism. |
WinkyDink
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:32 AM
Response to Original message |
26. You asked this already, in another thread. But since you are persisting: |
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Edited on Thu Jun-30-11 08:33 AM by WinkyDink
I, too, will reiterate:
You actually need to ask? It's a matter of RESPECT. Such vulgarity has NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE on TV, about ANYONE, let alone the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
The term is NOT ALLOWED in its obviously vulgar usage. (If you do not know it is a vulgarism and not simply "slang,", I'm bereft of further argument.)
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woo me with science
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #26 |
30. Actually, I asked it here first. |
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Edited on Thu Jun-30-11 08:46 AM by woo me with science
Then I added it to the other thread as a courtesy, because it was the other thread that made me think of the question.
I agree that it's vulgar and disrespectful. It was the comparison with Ingraham's case that made me ask the question, because when you compare the two, many people will think that you are suggesting the reasons are the same.
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seabeyond
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:33 AM
Response to Original message |
27. what gets me, is i see often on du a demand for a world of vulgar. seems to me progressive |
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sophisticated, freedom. well, here is our world of vulgar. we just dont like it when it is directed to one of our own. otherwise it is defended.
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woo me with science
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
42. Interesting observation... |
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I will have to think about that, but I might agree with you.
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seabeyond
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Thu Jun-30-11 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #42 |
45. bah hahaha. lol. i have done that, too. cute. nt |
seaglass
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:35 AM
Response to Original message |
29. Using the terms dick and pussy would be equally sexist not the same as slut though. |
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Dick = jerk Pussy = weak
Personally I don't have an objection to use of the words dick or pussy, though I don't use those words.
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WinkyDink
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #29 |
32. Some people have no objection to anything; not the point, really. |
seaglass
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #32 |
36. And your point is? n/t |
Township75
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:36 AM
Response to Original message |
31. For some reason on DU, you can't call someone a pussy but you can a dick. |
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TO me they should both be sexist terms or both be allowed.
I tend not to be bothered by this stuff, so I would rather see people be allowed to call others dicks and sluts without the outrage.
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Myrina
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:37 AM
Response to Original message |
33. It's disrespectful of the Office of POTUS and if it were W ... |
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... you can bet the clown that said that would have been waterboarded by now.
My more general opinion is that words are just words - you can call me whatever you want to call me - it's a reflection on you, not me.
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LaurenG
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:39 AM
Response to Original message |
35. If I were to call a man a dick I really mean he's an asshole |
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If I were to call a woman a slut I would really mean she sleeps around without regard for the so's involved. I could call women dicks and men sluts because the words are not sexist to me they would be used as a descriptor and have nothing to do with the gender of the person. With that said and being PC I would never use those wordsat least no here.
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justiceischeap
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:41 AM
Response to Original message |
37. I don't think of the two terms as being the same, I think comparing "dick" and "bitch" would |
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be a better analogy. When I hear someone called a slut, it usually is in a sexual context (and can be used for both males and females--which then, IMO, it becomes sexist for both sexes). However, when I hear or call someone a dick or a bitch I am referring to their attitude, not their sexuality.
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pipi_k
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:43 AM
Response to Original message |
39. If someone calls another person something |
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he wouldn't ordinarily call someone else, then yes...it's whatever "ism" it is.
And, IMO anyway, calling a man a "dick" (or any other word referring to a man's privates) is the equivalent of calling a woman a "c**t".
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snooper2
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Thu Jun-30-11 08:48 AM
Response to Original message |
43. I've called guys slut and do remember calling this one girl a dick before |
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but I'm just a crude muthafucka---
Reminds me of some lyrics from the ride in--
Eminem - WTP
Now whether you're black, white or purple If you're misunderstood But you don't give a fuck You weren't doin' shit that you should Long as you know you're up to evil And you're no damn good Get on the floor, man, and rep your 'hood
Now honey, don't let them pricks trip We should make a quick dip And go do some donuts in the hospital parkin' lot Cuz girl I got a sick whip Kick the back window outta my Gremlin Put two milk crates in the trunk Rip out the stick shift and Make a five seater I'll be damned if I feed a chick It ain't like me to split a piece 'a dry pita I'll be the S-L to the I-M S-H-A-D-Y And I don't need a tank top to be a wife beater
I'll rip a tree out the ground And flip it upside down 'Fore I turn over a new leaf, clown I'll tell ya now I'm so raw I still need to un-thaw You feel me, yall? I shut the club down like Drake in the mall!
But baby, a body like that's against the law You the baddest little chain with the blades I ever saw Cold slaw containers, empty straw wrappers and all You got more junk in your trunk than I do in my car Now get up!
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grahamhgreen
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Thu Jun-30-11 10:51 AM
Response to Original message |
44. For god's sake - argue policy, who cares about name calling. |
Cleita
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Thu Jun-30-11 01:54 PM
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46. Actually, we called Bush a chimp because of his |
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looks and lack of intellectualism. I don't remember anyone calling him a dick.
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