Why are we even *discussing* Medicare and SS cuts? Why? Because the repubicans made us.

[Stinky The Clown]

And because the DEMOCRATS are too fucking chicken shit - or smart - to change the topic.

The repubicans are masters at controlling the debate.

They're Lucy and we're Charlie Brown, kicking ourselves upside down over . . . . and over . . . and over . . .

[Bluenorthwest]

1. I don't think they are masters, I think the Democrats in office

are just that bad at it. They are not bested by the best, but by the worst.

[Fumesucker]

4. Your theory would make sense if it was just a few Democrats..

But often it seems as though it's all but a very few national level Democrats that are political naifs, I find that hard to believe.

In my view you don't get to be a national level politician by being really awful at politics.

[defendandprotect]

31. Democrats aren't "bad" at debate ... they're good at SILENCE bought with

Koch Bros $$$$$$$$$$$ which funded the DLC which infested the party

for 20 years -- polluting its candidates and its agenda --

doing surgery on Dem their back bones!!

[leveymg]

2. Because our "leaders" are willing to discuss it.

If they weren't, there would have been no Catfood Commission, and Obama would have said it wasn't negotiable and the GOP can f-ck themselves in a pile on the House Floor. This is all part of an extended, long term plan to "restructure" the USA, just like any other of Summers' IMF-style restructurings.

[dkf]

3. Because Medicare is growing at twice the rate of the economy.

If you have one expense that grows at double the rate of your income for the next 50-80 years do you think you will have a problem?

And this is what will happen to our health care costs anyway. If we can't fix health costs the federal budget and your budget will go bust.

[leveymg]

6. So are Wall Street bonuses, but you don't hear anyone calling for cuts or taxes on those.

Are you seriously buying into this bullshit? If so, please leave DU immediately. You aren't a progressive, and you aren't a Democrat I want to be part of the same party with.

Leave. Now. Take the Third Way creeps with you.

[dkf]

12. Serious Democrats know this is a problem.

Obama knows it. Anyone who tries to tackle Health Care knows it.

The only people who don't know it are the ones who haven't looked at the projections.

Here they are:

http://www.fms.treas.gov/fr/10frusg/10guide.pdf

Look at chart 7 and keep in mind this does not include interest on the debt which only compounds.

Take a look at chart 2 to see how the projections look after you add on the interest.

Look at how defense and other non interest spending decreases or flattens while entitlements increase as a percent of GDP.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. "Serious Democrats"

Okay . . . . . . .

[leveymg]

28. We heard this stuff about "serious Democrats" and "projections" during the HCR debate. What did we

end up with? Even the wonks don't like what you guys produced.

You wasted a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for real reform. Failure. Go away. Please.

[dkf]

36. I think the only end point that makes sense is single payer.

Anything else doesn't get us far enough. But I was surprised how much HCR improved projections for Medicare. All these people proclaiming they won't vote for Obana if he touches Medicare are making me laugh because he already has.

[leveymg]

41. It's not a bargaining chip. It's a terrible mistake to put it on the table as one at this time.

We all expect that changes in health care programs will have to be negotiated. But, not like this. The symbolic politics are terrible - the WH has a total tin ear for the effect this is having among the rank-and-file and the American people.

The GOP will be able to say -- correctly -- that Obama will negotiate anything away. And, they would be right.

[defendandprotect]

33. BS ... every other nation has universal health care -- and everywhere under attack by rightwing!!

[dkf]

37. And so should we which is why protecting Medicare as we know it is stupid.

[defendandprotect]

40. Medicare should simply be expanded to MEDICARE FOR ALL ...

and you seem to be suggesting that because corporate/elites are attacking

and destroying safety nets eveerywhere else that we should end them here?

Fight the rise of the fascism -- don't accommodate it!!

[kelly1mm]

45. Every other nation? Link please. nt

[defendandprotect]

50. kelly ... google -- or check the DU archives ... you can do it-- !!

[kelly1mm]

53. Don't need too. I know that every other country on the planet does NOT have universal health care.

[defendandprotect]

54. You have a link for that?

[kelly1mm]

55. Yes, I do. Here it is. Now, will you admit that you were factually wrong

in saying that every other nation has universal health care? The link below lists all the nations with UHC. Notice that not all countries are on that list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_healthcare

[defendandprotect]

34. "Serious Democrats" ... you mean Koch Bros. funded DLC Democrats ...

the party has been infested with them --

the agenda and candidates corrupted by rw Koch Bros $$$$$$$$$$$ --

[dkf]

38. You wanna vote for Nader again?

[defendandprotect]

39. You want to vote for Koch Bros DLC Dem candidates?

And, btw, I never voted for Nader --

[dkf]

46. Never too late. I'd rather vote for a Gore.

[defendandprotect]

48. I voted for Gore -- have you read Gore's Rolling Stone article ... ?

What he is describing is a Goebbels' like corporate-press --

and a "Dysfunctional government" with Obama "parlyzed" --

and our Congress under control of oil and coal industry --


Basically, fascism --


If want to see what he's saying about Global Warming -- which evidently more honest

members of our Military are also trying to alert us to -- it's Page 2

[chill_wind]

14. And military spending.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com

[Fumesucker]

7. The only real fix for medical costs is Single Payer..

I'm about as likely to fly to Neptune by flapping my arms as Single Payer is to become law in the USA.

[dkf]

15. Is there any way out of it? I don't see it.

[Stinky The Clown]

25. The answer was right there, in two words:

Single

Payer

What has been going on is increasingly indefensible.

[Fearless]

51. K&R! ...Sadly on the second half... n/t

[toddwv]

10. Shouldn't we handle the more pressing issues first?

Just seems like good economics.

[dkf]

13. Even the Republicans are beginning to say we should get out of Afghanisan.

I am confident we will start seeing reductions there.

[defendandprotect]

32. Because the pool needs to be expanded -- MEDICARE FOR ALL -- the nation is desperate for it!!

Government could save a fortune -- our citizens are ill and suffering for

lack of what every other nation has been able to do --

Now tell us again that we can't afford it!! ???

[polichick]

5. Or because a lot of "Dems" are using Republicans for cover.

[leftstreet]

44. +1

The GOP didn't force this Administration to set up the catfood commission

[polichick]

52. Right - or to adopt their framing. It's absurd to think any prez would be such a lame negotiator.

[roamer65]

8. No one in DC has the balls to do what is right.

Single-payor socialized medicine and massive tax increases on the wealthy.

[defendandprotect]

30. No -- it's not about "balls" -- it's about $$$$$$$$$$$$ Koch Bros. $$$$ in Dem Party ....

infesting the party and its candidates and its agenda over 20 years !!!

But they must be fairly good actors that so many believe it's about weak spines

and no gumption !!


:eyes:

[pscot]

9. We're their bitch

We're under their thumb.

[woo me with science]

11. K&R nt

[Generic Brad]

16. I prefer discussing taxing the hell out of the wealthy

If they want to benefit from this society, they need to contribute their fair share and help the rest of us. Instead of discussing cuts, we should be demanding how we end welfare to the wealthy now.

[SugarShack]

17. Time to call your congresscritter at 202-224-3121 and just ask for yours!

[madinmaryland]

18. RIGHT FUCKING NOW!

[nashville_brook]

19. i'm fully prepared for the news of the next great Obama compromise...

we were able to raise taxes on millionaires in exchange for cuts in Medicare.

i hope i'm wrong...but that's what's i'm prepped for.

[rug]

20. Stop complaining, we don't have 87 votes in the Senate.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dr Fate]

43. What part of we did not, do not and will not have the votes does the professional left not get?

I mean really? How many times do we have to say it?

[LLStarks]

21. So, we just ignore the problem until we have supermajorities in Congress to fix it? nt

[KoKo]

22. It's seeming to be that "whatever the Repugs want...the Repugs Get..

Don't know why that is...but it is what it is.

K&R!

[madrchsod]

23. cowards......

[nc4bo]

24. Chicken no. Smart sometimes maybe. Selfish and worried about their own hides

and bank accounts over the people they represent, more than likely.

So much to be gained if you can get elected and hold your seat. It's a regular money making machine complete with perks.

Not all but far too many.

[Indykatie]

27. Because These Programs Can Not and Should Not Be Left Untouched

given the amount of cuts that need to be identified. If the basic infrastructure for Medicare can be kept I accept that cuts have to be made in other forms. I won't think the Dems failed miserably if these two programs have some cuts. My preference would be for the Medicare tax cap to be raised or lifted altogether. They should also eliminate the 28% drug subsidy given to companies under the Medicare Modernization act. That subsidy is worth billions. A slight increase in the full eligibility age would be another way to effect a cut in the costs for the programs. No cuts are going to be popular and I do understand that.

[defendandprotect]

29. True -- they also made Obama extend tax cuts for rich ... otherwise he wouldn't have done it ...

:rofl:

[roomfullofmirrors]

42. I'm voting for default. let's see what happens when the cops and military stop getting paid.

Sounds like a wet dream to me. why are we so afraid of something we all want?

[Bryn]

47. Check out what Wikipedia says about DLC

It's The Corporate Party!

Wikipedia:

"The Democratic Leadership Council was a non-profit 501(c)(4) corporation<1> that, upon its formation, argued the United States Democratic Party should shift away from the leftward turn it took in the late 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s. The DLC hails President Bill Clinton as proof of the viability of third way politicians and as a DLC success story."

Just like Republicans have gone to 3rd party called The Tea Party!

No wonder SCOTUS give corporations personhood.

America is sinking ... unless we do something. Once Obama cuts Social Security & Medicare we will be completely taken over by FASCIST CORPORATE STATE.

[steelmania75]

49. VIVA LA REVOLUTION!