Am I biased, or does it seem like in debt ceiling talks, Dems are winning the ground game?

[HardWorkingDem]

Now, I could be biased, but it appears to me that within the media, the Dems are sort of winning the debt ceiling talks ground game and are being portrayed as willing to compromise/work with the Rethuglicans more than the Rethuglicans are with the Dems.

Or am I being biased about this?

Also, if the Dems are winning the ground game, then they should continue to do what they are doing, only even better.

[Renew Deal]

1. I don't know about winning or losing, but you're right about the overall point.

I'm not sure if voters care. In the past they have given Obama credit.

[Big Blue Marble]

2. Whether or not they are winning the ground game,

most likely they are losing the war. They were in an excellent position after the Ryan debacle, to regain the House based
on their promises to protect Medicare and SS. Obama's willingness to offer up these programs in negotiations has undermined
that advantage.

[zbdent]

7. "most likely they are losing the war" ... I agree there ...

I'm investing in companies that make turd polish ... in preparation for the 2012 Presidential election season, when you won't be able to find a drop of it in a store ... because the "liberally-biased media" will be shining the Republican candidate to a point which would make you forget about "New Shimmer".

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HardWorkingDem]

14. I'm almost wondering if he did that.....

to make it appear he is willing to put Democratic sacred cows up for discussion to build the narrative of how he has done everything he can to do this and it just shows how radical the right is in their opposition, without even intending to allow such cuts.

But I wish he and the Dems would make it seem like they realize that all the right is interested in is destroying Dems and the Dem party and in anyway they can. It would be great to wake up and have the feeling that Washington Dems just feel a little bit when it comes to every day people.

[Big Blue Marble]

18. That might be a good tactical move,

but a very poor strategical one for the reason I stated above.

I received a call from AARP this morning warning me of the threats to my SS and Medicare. If I got that call, so are
millions of AARP members. These are people who most often vote. They now are learning that the Dems are coming
after their benefits. Powerful stuff to take into the election booth next year.

[MineralMan]

3. It's going to be hard to gauge the effects of this until

2012, really. For example, polls in Minnesota show that a majority blames Republicans in the state legislature for the current shutdown of the state. However, how that will translate to actual votes in 2012 is unknown. We really won't know until next November, and conditions may change radically between now and then.

That said, we need to be putting the message out there about the obstructiveness and mean-spiritedness of Republicans. We need to do that nonstop, starting now and continuously through next November. It is a winning strategy, and one we can't afford to ignore.

[salin]

10. Agreed per the messaging - but add this to the messaging:

Senate republicans are in such a tea party bubble/bind that they have gone on record saying some pretty insane things per Hatch's 'the poor ought to carry more of the pain' and Session's 'the idea that the wealthy should pay more (taxes/burden) is ridiculous' (my words aren't exact quotes but carry the meaning. the actual quotes are more harsh).

Think about how well those words (and more will be spoken, no doubt) will play in ads and messaging when combined with the callousness of the republicans per the plight of most of the public and the lack of seriousness they show when making a cow-sized issue of "PAYING DOWN THE DEBT" but then say (Ryan) any revenue increase will have to be met with a tax cut (for the wealthy, no doubt.)

To the OP - I think you are right. But it isn't just that the GOP looks mean and petty per not willing to work with the democrats and Obama - it is that the agenda of serving the rich and corporate interests has had every last obstructing from view cloak lifted. It gets harder and harder for Joe Blow public to ignore the obvious. Winning future elections, and raking in corporate donations to do so (money for retirement) is more important to the GOP than actually trying to serve the public with serious policies when the country faces serious crises.

[MilesColtrane]

4. I don't think the "ground game" matters much to the American public.

Those, like us, who pay attention to the nuts and bolts of government and national politics are in the minority in this country.

The true importance of this type of fight comes only after it is over and the results have been spun, framed, packaged, and fed to voters by the Mighty Wurlitzer before the next looming election.

[WI_DEM]

5. They were winning it until talk came up about social security 'being on the table'

that, like Medicare, is not what the American people want. If the media created a false impression of what Obama is talking about, then he needs to clear it up by being clear about what he means about social security.

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. It's absolutely remarkable what's happened on this board

Before Obama started giving speeches and being called a "dick" by the right-wing media shills, the GOPers were not going to budge an inch on "revenue-increasing" measures. This week, their resistance has crumbled, and all we hear about is how they're going to play ball on tax increases and closing tax loopholes. Great win for the bully-pulpit, right? No, instead somebody reading this board would think that seniors are going to starve to death all over America. It's unbelievable. Some people can't win for losing.

[SolidBold]

9. The devil is in the details

I'm was a huge Obama supporter until he caved on the Bush tax cuts. And CONZ aren't voting for ANY tax cuts or closing loopholes unless they are accompanied by 6 times as much in SPENDING CUTS.

So congratulations....for every dollar we raise off the rich, six get cut to seniors. That's not a win in my book.

[Dawgs]

11. NOBODY cares about the debt ceiling talks.

Doesn't matter who's winning.

[salin]

13. ah- but the public pronouncements of some of the wingnut house and senate leaders

does matter. The public doesn't care - but it does recognize things are absurd when it is proclaimed that the poor should bear the burden of closing the gap (Hatch) and that it is absurd to put on the table tax hikes and closing loopholes for the rich and corporations (Sessions).

The GOP emporor's clothes are being torn off during this debate. Folks don't care about who wins the debt ceiling talks - but they may remember some of the absurd but clear alignments being made by the GOP with the super wealthy interests at the expense of all others.

[HardWorkingDem]

15. Think the Dems have misstep here in the same way just like with the bank bailouts...

and by this I mean, I agree with you about the every day thoughts of this issue with the general public - too many don't realize the importance of this topic, just like the bank bail outs. The Dems have done a poor job expressing to the average American the importance of this and by not doing that, have lost another opportunity.

[spooked911]

12. that would be the optimistic take on this

but on the practical matters, the Dems are losing BIG TIME in terms of what FUCKING MATTERS-- protecting people

[emulatorloo]

17. 1. I can't base everything on FDL speculative headlines 2. call your Congresspeople

and tell them where you stand on this issue. That's my plan.

[supraTruth]

16. Tell the President to tell boehner&cantor that CONgressional paychecks will be the 1st CUTS if the

Debt Ceiling DEADline is missed! HIT THEM in THEIR pocketbooks!

[hfojvt]

19. it did sorta wonder if it was ju jitsu

By not providing any opposition, by moving so far to the right, Obama leaves the Republicans almost no ground to stand on. If they pass something, it looks like a victory for Obama. He's kinda stolen their rightwing thunder, and so they feel like they have to move even further to the right in order to oppose him. At which point, there should be an electoral backlash.

But there does not seem to be because there is a good 30% core of the public that is even further to the right than Cantor. At least enough to win an election in an off year if they get fired up to go vote, and our discouraged side stays home.