Where am I?

[madamesilverspurs]

Let's see.

We have the republicans who have sworn to do whatever it takes to make Obama a one-term president; they refuse to engage in any meaningful legislative activity, and routinely blame Obama for the consequences of their deliberate inaction.

We have mainstream media, print and broadcast, that is overwhelmingly owned and operated by republicans; said media is dedicated to showing President Obama in the most negative terms.

At least we have DU, where Democrats can discuss pros and cons without trashing the President...oh, wait. Never mind.


-

[Drale]

1. I've been working under the impression

that this is a right wing plot from the very begging but it seems that many on DU have completely lost their ability to think critically.

[BeFree]

4. Pathos

People are freaking out. It just doesn't make sense.

People turned out like never before and voted for ""Change"" and we're still headed over the cliff.

[IndyPragmatist]

5. I post on multiple message boards because of this.

I like to read about others ideas and opinions about things. However, it seems like all the message boards that are exclusively democrat or republican tend to go off the deep end very often.

I actually find some of the best discussion on websites that aren't dedicated to politics. I visit a couple of sports message boards that have a political board, and the level of discussion sometimes is on another level. Because there is a wide range of opinions, people are forced to prove their point. Whereas on some boards, you just have the same lines rehashed over and over again; if someone has a differing opinion, they usually get ganged up on by other posters until they give up.

[lunatica]

11. 'democrat'?

Democrats don't call their party the Democrat Party. They also don't say a board is a democrat board. The word you're obviously avoiding ends with an 'ic' such as in democratic.

[IndyPragmatist]

14. thanks for proving my point

If someone says something you don't like, don't address the content, just attack grammar. This is a board for democrats. The party is democratic, the members are democrats.

Childish games are soo much fun!

[lunatica]

25. The only point you proved is poor judgement while posting on a Democratic forum

using the word democrat incorrectly is a dead giveaway.

[Silent3]

29. While I hate that use of "Democrat" too...

...many people in this world simply aren't very tuned into language subtleties of that sort. It bugs me as the son of an English (and math) teacher, but I get over it.

It's part of the very problem that the poster is describing here that you don't merely take his use of "Democrat" as a possible clue, but are instead are bound and determined to see it as a sure sign of right wing intent.

[IndyPragmatist]

34. I was rushing through my post

I actually wasn't going for democratic, I was thinking democrats but it just didn't make it from my brain to my keyboard. But that was part of the point I was trying to make. There are a lot of people, both democrats and republicans, that will not listen to a word that anyone from the other party has to say...no matter what. By attacking the "democrat" part of my post, I was labeled as a republican, and thus, not worthy of an actual response.

This is why I think non-political boards have such great debate sometimes (sometimes they don't). It's not a one-sided discussion. There are multiple points of view, and many people that will back others up if they get ganged up on.

Don't get me wrong, there are many extremely intelligent people on here that are capable of debating various points of views at a very high level. However, there are also some people that refuse to ponder anything that hasn't been endorsed by their favorite websites or politicians.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluerthanblue]

2. rec- even tho it doesn't show.

:shrug:

[lunatica]

3. People still refuse to acknowledge that the Congress has as much power as it does

They think Obama has been elected King and has total power over everything and everyone. And they think if he isn't as far left as the Teabaggers are right then he's one of 'them'.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

6. Pretty succint explanation of where we essentially are

Plus he was expected to have addressed/fixed all of society's ills within a scant 2 years as well.

[eridani]

33. We don't expect Obama to fix everything. All we expect

--is that he ought to quit bullshitting us with Repuke talking points. It's the MESSAGING, stupid!

[stuckinarut]

7. Let me describe a few policies, you tell me which party they belong to.

Starting 2 illegal/black wars
expanding wars of occupation.
Giving tax cuts to the wealthy, while signaling austerity for the least well off.
Handing insurance companies the business of 330 million Americans, by means of mandate
Ignoring the war powers act
Use of extra-legal assassinations of un-charged individuals in foreign countries.
The targeting of American citizens for assassination abroad.
Wireless Wiretapping
Increase in signing statements
The murder of countless civilians by means of predator drones in Libya, Yemen, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq.



Should I keep going on? Is this a President YOU would vote for?

Where has the morality of the party of peace gone?

[Autumn]

8. A few years back I would have said the republican party,

now, hell if I know. I do know that's not my party.:( Welcome to DU :hi:

[stuckinarut]

9. Thank you for the hello

I was here a while back, and was pushed away for my consistent opinions, it seems the magic is starting to wear thin on the DU crowd.


Cheers

[IndyPragmatist]

16. Which is why we need electoral reform to allow more parties

Because really, you don't have much of a choice. As bad as the things on the list were, do you see any republican that would make things better? Nope, of course not. It's either bad or worse.

[stuckinarut]

18. I just dont see reform coming from..

A fully bought and paid for legislature. They will never vote to bite the hand that feeds them. Real "reform" is, at this point, unfortunately going to have to originate from outside Washington, and Im not talking about voting. At risk of sounding too cliche, we DO have to take our country back....from our government.

[IndyPragmatist]

20. Here is a scenario where that could happen

I was thinking about our rules for electing the president, specifically about what happens when no candidate reaches a majority of the votes. I think this could potentially happen if Mit Romney wins the republican nomination, and Ron Paul decides to run as a libertarian or independent. States like Texas, SC, GA, & Kentucky would not be happy with Mitt as the republican candidate. The far right thinks Mitt is exactly like Obama. Ron Paul appeals to many of those people. Texas would be the important one...it's his home state and they would really not want to vote for Romney. Could Paul win Texas in this scenario? Maybe. I could see him possibly pulling states like Kentucky and SC. If the race between Obama and Romney is close enough (which it will be close no matter who is the R candidate), Ron Paul could potentially win enough electoral votes to throw a wrench in things.

Is this likely? No. Is it possible? Maybe.

I'm sure you're wondering where this is going. If nobody got a majority, Congress would choose the winner. The previous congress would be the ones voting. What if we saw a huge shift in power in congress in 2012? The House elects the President, and the republicans have the majority. So it would make sense that Romney would win. But what if the Democrats took back the house in the 2012 election? They would be the majority party in January, but the previous congress would be choosing who is president. I would think this would cause a huge issue, and would be enough to force major electoral reform.

Like I said before, it's not likely to happen, but it's the only scenario I can envision in the near future that would allow reform to happen.

[stuckinarut]

23. Like you said, worse or worser.

Unfortunately I don't see this turning out well either way it goes.

Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised, all the stars will align, and his noodleness will comedown from his heavenly bowl but I doubt it at this point.

Sadly, I have thought we were done for when the D's started using "business-friendly" language. As Marx said, in it's last death throes, capital will begin to cannibalize itself, and the resource base which constructed it. Which for the top 1% is an incredibly lucrative proposition.

[IndyPragmatist]

37. I disagree with one thing in your post...

"business-friendly" language

I think we can be business friendly and still thrive. Look at Denmark, they are a socialist nation, but they are still considered to be very business friendly. Here is a link of the most "business-friendly" nations on earth.
http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings

1.Singapore
2.Hong Kong SAR, China
3.New Zealand
4.United Kingdom
5.United States
6.Denmark
7.Canada
8.Norway
9.Ireland
10.Australia
11.Saudi Arabia
12.Georgia
13.Finland
14.Sweden
15.Iceland

I don't think many on this board would disagree with the United States adopting a Danish, Norwegian, or Swedish model. Yet, they still are considered to be very business friendly. It's possible to have a thriving private sector and still provide for the people. Obviously, we are very different than the aforementioned countries. But I think it's possible for us to have a strong private-sector while still moving towards social and economic equality.

[stuckinarut]

41. I agree to an extent, but the countries you mention

Have all had what I call "events of social cohesion", most notably WW2, where these countries all shared in near/total destruction of their domestic infrastructures. They had to band together (those that we left, remember WW2 over 60 million were killed) and rebuild from literally nothing. The US never shared in this pain, as they reaped mostly the rewards of being the sole manufacturing base left in the industrialized war fit for production. We grew economically from this influx in demand, but did not grow a societal conscience. Instead, we fostered the ideals of greed and shaped them into a economic policy that a certain group then used to decimate/control the world from then on. The countries you list grew together from their destruction. They had an interest in each other, something they still hold to this day. We, unfortunately, have a society based on individualistic ideals, (kinda ironic, right), and an insatiable appetite to consume. Without our ability to make things anymore, we are importing more than we export, and thus the only thing left is for the top to consume the bottom.

Sadly, I forsee things becoming alot worse before they get better.

but hey, im no nostradamus

[IndyPragmatist]

47. I agree, things will likely get worse before they get better

And thank you for an articulate, well-thought out response. I come to message boards to learn new things, or at least, to find something to think about. I often tell myself that I am done with this board because of some of the childish banter that goes on, but stuff like this is what keeps me coming back. I disagreed with you, you provided a response that, while it didn't change my stance, made me think hard about the subject. So thank you for the intellectual stimulation this afternoon.

[stuckinarut]

48. Language is the last form of expression we can control

I will enter into intelligent banter anytime, friend
It's the only thing we have left.

[kath]

52. + a brazillion.

Why the hell would I, a lifelong Democrat, want to give tacit approval by voting for such a POS?
Not going to happen.

[JTFrog]

10. Big K&R

This place needs an enema.

[Solomon]

12. There ain't enough room for all the shit.

And God, the gas....

[SidDithers]

42. +1...nt

Sid

[DevonRex]

13. You're on a site that's against Democrats.

Plain and simple.

[stuckinarut]

15. It's not that we're against Democrats,

It's that we are against anything that is anti- (d)emocratic.

When Democrats become un (d)emocratic, and attack the least among us, we fight. No matter what letter comes after the name.

[dionysus]

31. well stated.

[DevonRex]

36. Thank you. Today I am very sad.

And I don't want the name of the Democratic Party to be used to defeat Democrats, as is being done here. The Socialists and Greens are Not our friends. We don't have coalition govt in this country. It's an adversarial system. Short of reworking the constitution, any hope of us working together is just a pipe dream.

[Marrah_G]

17. All these people need to stop being so mean to Obama

It's a hard job.

Have you seen how adorable and big his puppy has gotten? Do you think Bo gets to go on the furniture in the family residence part of the White House? hehehehe........

[Electric Monk]

19. Leave Britney alone!

[polmaven]

21. I actually just heard a man

on Ed's radio show....well....a raving lunatic, really....who ranted about how he will never vote again for this president, because it is better that the Democrats lose both the White House and the Senate to Republicans so that Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid will be protected as they are! Ed thought that was a good plan!!!!

I have to say, I seem to be seeing that - um - logic(?) right here lately. The Republicans are going to leave Social
security, Medicare and Medicaid untouched?????? On what planet am I??????

HEEEEEELLLLP!!!!

[stuckinarut]

27. Ed is a bozo.

I think we all know that, but no. The "big 3" will not be safe in the hands of EITHER party. It is the last solvent program the government runs, and is therefore a target for both parties to use as a football. Putting these programs on the table was assured back in December. The only people that didn't realize this was the Obama admin. and their supporters.

[noiretextatique]

22. critical thinking isn't always pretty

it's odd that people think the president of the united states needs all democratic voters to be a constant cheerleading squad, no matter what. obama said he expects and appreciates criticism, so when he deserves it, he should get it.

[Taverner]

24. Have you ever thought that some of us might feel that Obama has not lived up to his promises?

Like saying Med MJ clubs will not be targeted by his administration, and then he goes and targets Med MJ clubs, and the state and local officials who let them exist?

That's just one issue, there's a bunch more.

[fascisthunter]

26. You are on Website/Discussion Forum...

not an echo-chamber for the Obama Admin.

[NNN0LHI]

28. An anonymous Website/Discussion Forum to be exact

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Electric Monk]

32. About Democratic Underground, LLC

Democratic Underground (DU) was founded on Inauguration Day, January 20, 2001, to protest the illegitimate presidency of George W. Bush and to provide a resource for the exchange and dissemination of liberal and progressive ideas. Since then, DU has become one of the premier left-wing websites on the Internet, publishing original content six days a week, and hosting one of the Web's most active left-wing discussion boards.

We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals. While the vast majority of our visitors are Democrats, this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, nor do we claim to speak for the party as a whole.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/about.html

[Ikonoklast]

35. So, support for a third-party candidate here and see how long that lasts.

Skinner has already made that extremely plain, he wants none of it.

Thanks for for the rule refresher, though.

Good information there.

[fascisthunter]

51. .

[DevonRex]

40. Obviously it's not anymore. Personally, I'd eat worms before I'd

support the defeat of Democrats. But that's just me.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fascisthunter]

50. "And many here pretend to be something other than what they really are."

Snap out of it... people here support democratic principles more than you do. People do not have to support any particular democrat but the Party itself, and that is what the critics are doing.

Those supporting dems who are abandoning those democratic principles are the ones who are actually destroying the party from within.

[Rex]

39. And of course you are the only one that stands high on a pedestal

You shouldn't throw stones, it is unbecoming.

[canoeist52]

44. Unrec for a devisive post whining about whining.

Where's is the whining about POLICY??

Can't support Democrats defending and supporting Republican policy.

[Tom Rinaldo]

45. I don't view issues through a Presidential prism

I simply view them as issues of importance when they have significant effects on my life. I see no inherent contradiction between blasting a politician for taking what I feel is a horrible stance on an issue one day, and still voting for him again later on if he still remains the better choice.

There really is a cacoon that seperates national political figures from the reality of many Americans at the level of the street. Sometimes they don't adaquately understand how much destruction a mistep is causing if they can't hear anyone scream.

[JuniperLea]

46. DU... where RW news stories are used daily...

To pummell Democrats... instead of lining the bird cage... which is the only thing they are good for... except maybe when you run out of toilet paper.

[cherokeeprogressive]

49. I can only tell you where you ARE NOT.

You ARE NOT logged onto a discussion forum where the President of the United States gets a pass just because he's a Democrat.

Does that clear things up a little?

[donheld]

53. Unrecommend

I am not a lock step follower. If I'm getting screwed by my own I'm going to say something.

[madamesilverspurs]

55. Neither am I.

But I don't like having to plow through a mountain of slanderous bile in order to find the rare post that offers legitimate constructive criticism. It's kind of like going to a favorite restaurant, ordering surf and turf, and getting my plate delivered with my requested meal buried under hot dogs and fish sticks slathered in brown chili and getting yelled at if I don't just shut up and deal with it.


-

[Zoeisright]

54. Exactly.

Many of the comments here are simply appalling.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[inna]

57. why don't you discuss "ISSUES", not obsess about personalities.

Obama's policies are horrendously anti-Democratic. Are we supposed to be fucking happy about that fact?? :wtf:

[Fire1]

58. Where are you? Freeperville. n/t