All you true DUers, gather 'round...

[kentuck]

I will confess to being a little frustrated and angry. That leads to a lot of bickering and argument but it all comes with the territory. We've been thru these battles before.

However, we do know that the other side is not honest. They do not speak honestly and they do not negotiate honestly. And that is what makes us angry. The frustration comes from feeling that the Democratic leadership is incapable of dealing with it. But the Democrats' faults do not come from being dishonest, as do the Republicans. There is a big difference.

Also, we should not forget that we are stronger when we are united. Let us not forget the big picture. We cannot give up.

.

[JoePhilly]

1. K&R

[PDJane]

2. Aye........true. n/t

[polichick]

3. Are "true Duers" the ones who think our side is being honest?

[kentuck]

4. If you have to ask...?

you wouldn't understand. :-)

[polichick]

7. What's honest about saying one thing and doing another? What's honest about...

...unnecessarily risking programs against both the will of the people and the will of your party in Congress?

Pretty strange definitions of both "honest" and "true DUers."

[kentuck]

8. You make a good point.

A little misguided, just a little, but still a good point.

[dionysus]

40. let's crap on a unity thread from an original DUer. swell.

[polichick]

44. Where are your answers to the questions you responded to??

[MNBrewer]

78. What fuckin' UNITY?

[RaleighNCDUer]

98. Unity comes more easily when it is unity behind Democratic principles

rather than behind 'real-politik' and personality.

I wish more "true Democrats" would try it.

[saras]

103. Sure thing. "Original" doesn't mean jack shit, nor does "unity" with corporatists.

Personally I think the sort of person who is really into the "we're the true ones and you're not" sort of mentality is in fact a Republican at heart.

I want Democratic principles to win. If a politician systematically opposes the majority of them, they're not a Democrat, they're just waving someone else's flag. The only way we're going to get "unity" is to either kick out all the corporatists or kick out all the Democrats and progressives. Take your pick.

[demwing]

9. Thanks for clearing that up

apparently those that have to aske are not "True DUers" either

[kentuck]

10. I assumed we were all "true DUers"...

Perhaps I was wrong in that assumption? :-)

[Dept of Beer]

29. Define "true."

Is the definition of a true DUer one where they won't take risks and say the unpopular thing: even if it means a slice with extra cheese?

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kentuck]

67. Yep. If you don't know the password..

You can't get in. How about that for democracy?

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Taverner]

77. Don't be dim - - there have been a ton of trolls out lately

And many of them have been of the DLC variety

[Drale]

5. The stated goal of the Republicans is to make Obama a one term president

the easiest way to do that is to split the democratic vote and to get us to fight within out own group much like they are doing with the tea party. To quote the great Pink Floyd, "Together we stand, divided we fall".

[kentuck]

6. The state motto of Kentucky is close..

"United we stand, divided we fall."

[Cereal Kyller]

20. Hey You!

Thread recced.

[kentuck]

22. I remember Elsewhere's Daughter..

Welcome.

[toddwv]

47. Which works PERFECTLY into their stated goal of the past 30 years

"Starve the beast".

Destroy social programs by creating massive debt and gutting revenue.

It pisses me off to no end that they are given a free ride by the media and voters in general.

All of this, this entire economic mess, the out-of-control military spending, ballooning deficits, THIS IS ALL GOING ACCORDING TO PLAN!

[placton]

70. and Obama is helping as much as he can

a man
a plan
we are fucked

[gateley]

11. I know - we need to be together, not trying to convince each other

that I'm right and you're wrong. What a wasted effort. :(

[kentuck]

13. Indeed.

Wasted.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. Also not honest are those who try to tell me Republicans are

honest brokers, with great ideas, whom we need to have at our table, whose policy we must enact at least more often than our own, to be Bipartisan!
That whole 'Chuck Grassely is an honest broker' shit is only not a lie if you agree that Grassley is such an honest broker. Why the fuck is a Democrat trying to sell me on Coburn as a wonderful 'partner' when they are liars? Oh, Coburn, Obama loves that procurer, that deal maker for adulterer's pay offs, but gay people, oh, no we are not pure and sanctified, like the pimp Coburn. 'Cause Coburn is a Christian and an honest broker and a good friend of mine.
A lie is a lie. They all lie, together like dogs.

[kentuck]

16. Oh my!

What have we wrought! :-)

[juajen]

105. Actually, kentuck, not much has changed.

We have always fought with one another, and discussions could always get so heightened that Skinner would have to step in. I'm not sure what I would do without DU. Long may we argue, and a big "hello" to you.

[kentuck]

106. Yep.

:hi:

[Anakin Skywalker]

113. Hey now! Dogs don't lie! Scummy humans like RepubliCONs do.

[rurallib]

14. Democrats also want to solve problems, not create them.

this whole debt deal is fabricated and phony.
yet like true patriots they be, they go about finding solutions for every pile of horseshit that Republicans fill the country with.

[Dept of Beer]

30. Even blue dogs that vote against solving problems?

[spanone]

15. i'm waiting for facts

[tallahasseedem]

17. K&R

Completely agree...

[Andy823]

18. We should also remember

That there are a lot of right wing trolls coming here trying to stir up trouble and divide us. The republicans have a bunch of clowns running for the nomination and they know that they need to get the left angry and if they get them angry enough they are betting they will stay home and not vote, like many did in 2010, and look what that got us!

We should be very skeptical of anyone who try to tell us we should NOT vote for the president, or that we need to "send" him a message that we are upset. That's what happened in 2010, and sadly it worked on a lot of people who voted in 2008, stayed home and did not vote inn 2010, and now have republicans destroying their state government and trying to privatize everything they can for the corporations that bought and paid for their election!

[kentuck]

19. I fear that those that did not vote in the last election...

were most likely the young voters that voted in 2008. They probably do not have a habit of voting in every election, as do most of us. Perhaps those are the ones we should be trying to communicate with, not the Republicans?

[Dept of Beer]

31. Watch out for those trolls.

[placton]

71. and plenty of "3rd way" folks too

who tell us to love Obama

[guruoo]

73. Here's what I do...

When I find one, I use the site google search (upper right of this page) to track and then the alert button to stop the particular spread
of disruption.


"That there are a lot of right wing trolls coming here trying to stir up trouble and divide us"
"We should be very skeptical of anyone who try to tell us we should NOT vote for the president..."

.....

{ } Inappropriate attacks against Democrats
- Insults against prominent Democrats, such as "Fuck Obama."
- Name-calling against prominent Democrats. Calling Barack Obama "Barry" or some other name.
- Repeating Republican partisan attacks against Democrats.
- Broadly suggesting that there is no difference between Barack Obama and George W. Bush, or that there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans. (Arguing that specific policies are the same would be permitted.)
- Suggesting that President Obama has perpetrated a "con job" or "fraud," or similarly over-the-top assertions of bad faith.
- Advocating voting against Democrats, or in favor of third-party or GOP candidates.
- Broad-brush smears against Democrats generally. Broad expressions of contempt toward Democrats generally.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8603151

Democratic Candidates and the Democratic Party

Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic Party candidate.

Do not post broad-brush smears against Democrats or the Democratic Party.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

94. Me, too! +1,000,000,000,000!!! n/t

[Creideiki]

110. Sounds like you want Moderate Republican Underground

I don't.

I just want Democrats to act like Democrats.

[guruoo]

116. It's mostly about the efforts to discourage others from voting, e.g., 'staying home'

Just got finished alerting on one a few minutes ago.

[Creideiki]

I completely agree

Even if someone is disinclined to vote for any specific person, finding as many good progressives that the voter can support will help retake the House and keep the Senate.

[bluesbassman]

21. Do all "true" DUers eat haggis?

Sorry, couldn't resist. :evilgrin:

[kentuck]

23. Why...!

I don't even think it's been discussed? :-)

[RufusTFirefly]

99. Good one.

But over most people's heads, I fear.

Personally, I think we should all be required to sign DU loyalty oaths.
And we should publish a list of those posters who are suspected of not being true DUers.

[KoKo]

24. Yes...it's very frustrating...from many angles..including that "our side"

sometimes seems to fit the category of "not honest."

Still...there MUST BE a WAY OUT! There's got to be SOMETHING we can do that we've overlooked.

I'm in my bunker...channeling and Googling...to see if I can find some MOVEMENT/WEBSITE ACTIVISM that works for THESE TIMES...in THIS PLACE.

I will let you know if I find anything... Soon as I do...you will all be alerted.. Desperation fosters "strange bedfellows" and "when you lie down with thieves you can end up with fleas" ...and all other kinds of weird stuff/parables/comparisons/homilies...that I can throw out. :D

:hug: for speaking about it all...as always..!

[kentuck]

25. Remember this one?

"Call fucking Congress right fucking now!? :-)

[KoKo]

26. don't send me into a spin where I need to go on Meds.....for that one...it's OTT..and how about

C-Span I & II ...and all those Hearings we Watched for YEARS! OMG

The Petitions...the burned up Phone Lines...lighting up House, Senate, White House.

Well...Gallows Humor ...never goes outta style....

One really has to have a sense of humor about all of this and then move on.......AYYYY

I plan to not go on "Lunesta" so that the drug co's can kill me as I sleep...and I plan to remain keeping my sanity. THEY WILL NOT GET ME! :D :rofl:

Of course this isn't going to get to me...

:eyes:

[dionysus]

42. and "i just got back from _______. ask me anything!" or "______. discuss"

[LiberalAndProud]

27. Okay, I'll gather round. Solidarity is a good thing.

I've noticed that even the most vocal among us won't tolerate criticism from the outside. Beware, Freepers. You are not welcome here.

[Dept of Beer]

28. That should be the position of any honest man or woman...not just DUers.

We cannot give up, but will the Democratic leadership? God, I hope they don't.

[woo me with science]

32. Kentuck, I am at my end.

I have been sarcastically predicting the inevitable shift by certain DU-ers from denying that SS cutting will occur, to brazenly defending and rationalizing policies that will reduce projected Social Security benefits and cause tremendous pain to our most vulnerable citizens.

Now it is happening. I have seen it four or five times already in the past day and a half, and it makes me ill.

I don't understand how someone can get tombstoned from DU for supporting other Republican policies, yet now, just because it may be DEMOCRATS yielding the knife, it is just fine to brazenly defend policies that assault the very core of what it has always meant to be a Democrat: defense of the most vulnerable among us.

I have often argued for more freedom and less censorship on DU, and that is still my position. I don't generally alert on a post that makes me sick. But the presence here of this rank hypocrisy that, it now appears, will defend ANYTHING as long as it comes with a (D) after the name makes me tremendously angry and desperately sad.

[kentuck]

33. Do you think we will be betrayed?

Or have already been betrayed?

But shouldn't we wait to see what direction they will choose? Then we can make our decisions. Either way, we are stronger when we are united.

[woo me with science]

34. I am fervently hoping that he will surprise us.

If he does, I will credit all who spoke out so loudly and did not wait to do so.

[neoralme]

90. United in doing what? We can stand in some park in a major city and

wave garish signs, send faxes and emails to congress pukes. That will do jack chit. So united in what? Common themes or purpose backed by peaceful protest will accomplish nothing except to make the enemy laugh.

[placton]

72. woo

you are right on the money!!!

[Liberalynn]

89. Beautifully said.

I can't pretend I am not scared and angry. I also feel like I am being told my some that I am not allowed to feel that way because its "disloyal."

Here is a hug for you Woo Me With Science! You've put it so well in your post. :hug:

For all of those who still believe in Obama and that he has the best interests of all at heart, I admire your faith. I hope you are proven right. I truly do. I just can't say I believe like you do, though I wish I could.

[Plucketeer]

100. I'm with you.

United? Sure, but will someone please dash off a copy of the memo to the oval office?

[stuckinarut]

35. I don't know if they are dishonest...

They just truly believe we live in a "zero sum" world. They don't believe in helping other people, they don't believe in contributing, and they don't care.

I have family that are rich right wingers. Trust me. It's not that they are heartless, dishonest bastards...It's just that it is in THEIR best interest to be that way.

My uncle owns the largest construction company in a big state, and handles MOST of the government contracts. He still votes Republican. You would think he would want Dems who want infrastructure investment etc. But no. He doesn't want to pay more in taxes. Lets just say, we're not close..

My point is, (if there is a point) that I don't think that they are dishonest, they are just greedy and selfish. They aren't negotiating for the same things as Dems. which, while a simple thought, always gets lost inside a mind actively geared toward a certain goal. It happens to me all the time..."but how can they NOT see that what they are doing is ruining the environment..etc." They are just at a different place I guess.

That's why I try and educate them, and engage them when I can.

[kentuck]

36. Do you think it is dishonest...?

to pretend to be something you are not, as most of these Republicans are doing, and some would argue, as many Democrats are doing also?

[stuckinarut]

43. The politicians, oh yes, dishonest pieces of..

you know what. But Im just talking about Republicans in general. I was born and raised in NH. My parents are moderate/to the right, my grandparents are ultra conservative and the rest of the family mostly is too. NH is FULL of libertarians. I would consider myself a civic and social libertarian. But I would also consider myself a libertarian socialist...so I'm the "commie black sheep" of the family..No hostility, we just DONT talk politics...when it comes up, I walk away..I moved to northern Vermont. Its much better here.

but I digress

All politicians are dishonest , regardless of party affiliation. Especially in our "for-profit" electoral system where the win goes to whoever spends the most. People without money have no voice because they have no money. We don't get people elected, sad to say. Until this critical flaw is fixed, it is all kabuke theatre.

[mitchtv]

37. thanks, Kentuck

I will hang tough

[kentuck]

41. That's the only choice we have, right now...

I think?

[dionysus]

38. old timer k&r

[Shagbark Hickory]

39. I'm not sure I follow you. Plenty of people on our side have campained on one set of ideologies and

governed on another.

I don't see the other side doing that. They stick to their guns.

[polichick]

45. Gasp! You mean our side isn't honest?!

:sarcasm:

[Shagbark Hickory]

46. I think our side has a lot of corporate whores. I like your little sig image there. nm

[no limit]

48. I think that I am a true DUer. And I sure as hell don't believe for a second "our" side is honest

[kentuck]

50. How can you support a Party that you think is dishonest?

Or is it by degrees? Or is it all in our perception? I see a blatant dishonesty in Republicans that I fail to see in Democrats, understanding that they are all dishonest to a degree.

[pipi_k]

51. I don't think there's a political party on earth

that's honest.

And really, this insistence that the Republicans are more blatantly dishonest...well, if that's true, then it must mean that Democrats are more secretly dishonest, wouldn't it...

Which is better? Blatant dishonesty or sneaky dishonesty?


To say that it's all just a matter of degree...wow...

I would prefer that Democrats not be dishonest at all. Where is the honor in saying, well, yeah, our side are liars, but we're not as BAD as the other side.

Liars are liars. Both sides are covered with mud.


It disturbs me when people want to...or feel they have to... stoop to the level of the sleazeballs on the other side.

[kentuck]

52. Yes, we want our Party to be completely honest...

But we know that is not the case.

I don't agree with your statement about "blatant dishonesty or sneaky dishonesty". By blatant dishonesty by the Republicans, it is when they say that taxcuts create jobs and bring in more money to the Treasury, even as they have driven us into debt up to our eyeballs with that philosophy. Their dishonesty is on a grander scale, in my opinion.

Unfortunately, we do not have a 100% honest political Party and I'm not sure it is possible in this world? Therefore, we end up voting for the best of the choices that we have. In this case, it is the Democratic Party, with all its faults.

We don't have to vote for the Democratic Party. That is a personal choice. I happen to believe the Democratic Party represents a much larger share of the American people, even though many of them do not realize it or understand why they even vote.

[no limit]

54. Short answer is I can't.

Is the point you're getting at that doesn't make me a true DUer because of the rules outlined here that you must support the democrat no matter who the democrat is? Because I've been here over 6 years and have come to known many people here that I respect. During the Bush administration I was a strong supporter of Democrats and I was behind Obama from the day he announced.

But I'm tired of having my support taken for granted. And if that doesn't make me a true DUer then okay, so be it. But I don't think most people actually accept that.

Now if you don't see the blatant dishonesty in the democrats then I guess what blatant means is a matter of opinion. I think when they promised us they would allow drug reimportation then turned around and made a deal with drug companies to do no such thing that's pretty blatant. When Obama himself campaigned against the individual mandate during the 2008 campaign then as soon as he was elected embraced it that's pretty blatant. When Obama says that he thinks civil rights should be a state issue I know he doesn't actually believe that, he's just saying it since he thinks his re-election is far more important than civil rights, that's pretty fucking blatant IMHO.

And I don't think saying they are all dishonest to a degree does any justice to just how dishonest they are. And no, I don't believe for a second they are on our side, they aren't.

[kentuck]

56. A DU perspective does not have to be pro-Democratic Party always.

But the point is that DU has been a valuable resource and is most effective when we are united, not necessarily the Democratic Party. We have tried to guide the Democratic Party to take a more progressive route and thought we had succeeded with Obama.

Sometimes it is only about "us" and not just the "Party".

[no limit]

57. I can agree with that

and I think we are all mostly united on the issues. The problem is with the politicians that ignore those issues time and time again. And how to deal with those politicians is something we will probably never see consensus on.

[defendandprotect]

82. To what degree did Koch Bros. DLC money influence the Dem Party over 20 years?

Koch Bros has now morphed into the "Third way" and continues to do their damage --

but the dismantling of the Democratic Party has been accomplished.

At least in the sense of a party which supports the public's interests vs corporate/

fascism.

[Fearless]

49. Everyone, Democrat and Republican believe they are in the right.

That is why it is so frustrating at Thanksgiving dinner. I digress. At any rate, I disagree with the OP.

[defendandprotect]

83. I don't think so -- !!! Liberal Democrats have always known problem of voting for "lesser evil" --

All that has done is move the party and Congress further to the right -- !!

And its all it will ever do!

[Fearless]

117. That may well be...

But I still disagree with the OP. I don't believe that we're different because we think we're right (as if they think they're wrong).

[TheKentuckian]

53. I don't buy that Democrats are especially honest, they parrot Republican lies all the time.

They parrot popular beltway lies even more.

They lie about wars.

They lie about drugs.

They lie about the good intentions of the Republicans.

They lie about policy.

They lie about their goals and intents.

All politicians are liars the Republicans just tell more blatant lies.


I also ask what we are going to unite behind, if it is more assimilation of absurd Republican policies recycled by circle d's, more savaging of our civil liberties, more resource wars, more education deform, less justice, and more turning away from the sick, poor, and homeless an feeble attempts to court comfortable suburbanites then count me out, my friend.

If it is uniting for economic justice, peace, those who profited being accountable, speaking for the voiceless, and investing in our country and it's people then I'm gung ho and good to go.

I'm against Republican ideology, not just folks with an (R) next to their names (though that is functionally inclusive), and not just the TeaPubliKlan neo-Bircher ideology but the basic underlying ideas. I won't support them for unity because such is unity against mine and most peoples interests and my most core beliefs.

What one is for is at least as important as what they are against and being against a party but for their policies isn't a selling point for me.

[Dappleganger]

55. My experience agrees with your view.

All politicians say what they think you want to hear in order to get elected and keep their power.

[defendandprotect]

84. +1 -- and ever more so with Obama ... !!! Great post -- !!! K/R --

Should be a separate thread -- !!


:)

[LiberalLovinLug]

97. "They lie about the good intentions of the Republicans."

This is one of the most frustrating behaviors of the neo-Democrats.
Obama leads the charge in his soothing placation about the intentions of his "friends" from the other side of the aisle. Its all framed as a disagreement in methodologies, and that both parties are just trying to do what is best for Americans.

I think the OP is right to bring up the unite factor. But it is more like the DUers who believe in long held Democratic principles are united (and frustrated), for the most part, and the actual Democrats in office are also united, for the most part, around the DLC and the strategy of moving the country to the right and abandoning those principles in a desperate, misguided attempt to woo the independent voters who have been raised on the repeated meme ad nausea that "America is a conservative country" and "liberals are trying to destroy America"

It is like they have lost all hope and courage in just telling the truth and exposing the Rethugs for what they are and decided to instead try to be like them, (if you can't beat em...) not realizing that standing up for long held principles would actually garner you MORE votes, because while you may lose some of the right leaning independents, you will gain more from exciting the base and increasing your base with younger voters and green party voters and even the traditional base that is now, even as I write, thinking about boycotting.

[barbtries]

58. thank you kentuck

i am more than a little frustrated and angry. i'll go so far as to say i feel betrayed. will i vote? and will i vote for the democrat? hell, yes, hell yes.

but i will say this. if i was back home in CA instead of here in NC i would be looking for a new party.

[mfcorey1]

59. Amen to that. nt

[Hydra]

60. Umm...are you and I watching the same movie?

Remember back in the Bush days when everyone said he was stupid, because if he wasn't stupid, he'd have to be evil as hell? I voted evil.

Obama and the Dems are not stupid, naive or otherwise. They are feeding from the same corporate trough. it isn't a "mistake" that we are getting republican policies.

I don't support evil, no matter who is doing it. I also don't accept it as "necessary." If we can't do better than this, we may as well give up now.

[defendandprotect]

85. +1000% --- Rec this post --

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ganja Ninja]

62. Democrats' faults do not come from being dishonest?

"John Boehner is a good man who really cares about America." President Obama

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

80. Obama's pleading with the Repugs is disturbing -- nauseating -- ever see W do that?

What a sad joke on voters -- !!

[bobburgster]

65. Divide and Conquer....

the repugs do it well.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LynneSin]

102. +11111 to the infinity

Just create a few stories in the news that make Obama look bad and we're all over it like shit on flies

[ElsewheresDaughter]

69. a bucket of truth!

[woofless]

75. What he said.

[LynneSin]

76. AMEN - we're too quick to take everything we hear in the news as verbatum

and sometimes they are stories create to placate discord within the party.

GOP has been battered badily recently in the media with the actions of their Tea-Party governors along with the Ryan budget that eliminates medicaid.

Nothing would be easier then to create a few Anti-Obama flamepoints in order to shave away support for Obama.

Although I will vote for Obama 100% in the general election I'll wait and judge him for his actions that are completed and not by hearsay in the news.

[defendandprotect]

79. What's honest about the party taking Koch Bros. DLC money for 20 years ???

What's honest about the "third way" -- ?

And all the other rightwing groups that links to -- PPI - PNAC -- ?


If what you're saying is the choice is to support Obama or to support Social

Security and Medicare, you've got a losing argument!!


Without the New Deal, the Democratic Party would be finished -- and it obviously

looks like Koch Bros/DLC and Third Way are finishing dismantling the party -- !!

[WinkyDink]

81. I hold that 'true" Democrats and "true" DUers want to be "traditional" Democrats: Support

the working man; help the needy; defend the right and right the wrong; adhere to the Constitution; etc.

[defendandprotect]

86. Think it's more important to be true "democrats" ... and support New Deal values ...!!!

And Obama doesn't seem to be with us on that one -- !!

[Tennessee Gal]

87. Agreed. We cannot give up.

From a long time DUer who has not been around on a regular basis in a while.

[murielm99]

88. Thank you, kentuck.

I know what you are saying, even if some people are trying to make snarky replies.

We both know that leading Democrats is like herding cats.

[pdx_prog]

91. Dear Barack

Grow a pair already. Stand your ground, you only have to do it once. They will get the message afterwards. If you give in, or compromise you will have lost forever. You will lose credibility, self-respect, and the world. No one will take you serious anymore.

I can't watch...

[elocs]

92. Who gets to determine who is a true DUer?

Myself, I tend to believe that true DUers could only be those who agree with me. Others I am doubtful about.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

93. Many of us have been SCREAMING this! The REAL enemy is the Republican Party!!!

Democrats: UNITE NOW!!!!

:toast:

[swilton]

95. The problem with this analysis is

that the distinctions between sides vis a vis positions on policies is becoming blurred.

[proReality]

96. K&R n/t

[grahamhgreen]

101. Those who enact republican policies are the same as republicans, IMHO.

[rbnyc]

104. Hey kentuck.

tru dat

:toast:

[kentuck]

107. Hey!

:hi:

[AverageJoe90]

108. Amen to that!

Unity really IS what we need right now, not all this bickering & fighting.............

[Blasphemer]

109. The lines are different now.... it is no longer Democrat vs. Republican

That is why the battles are erupting and will continue to do so. I, sadly, do not think it possible any longer to unite under a Democratic party umbrella - not if the party ignores its own platform. What exactly are we uniting for? For the support of personalities not policy? I won't do that. I think there is a whole lot of dishonesty to go around. Quite frankly, the GOP is quite honest about their goals for this country - the lower and middle classes bear the burden and the wealthy continue to prosper. As to whether Democrats are equally honest about their goals, I'd need them to first tell what they are exactly. I no longer know.

[SkyDaddy7]

111. THANK-YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

It is sooooo nice to see a post like yours on DU...Sometimes I wonder if the Republicans are looking at us & LAUGHING! I know a lot of the false info is coming from the Right with the sole purpose of dividing us. And YES it is much harder to come to the negotiating table when you are being honest but I must continue to think honestly will win in the end. We will see!


THANK-YOU!!

[Anakin Skywalker]

112. I think Democrats are being WIMPS! I don't know if that makes me a "true DUer" or not.....

[bhikkhu]

114. Agreed - I'm remembering Carter back in '79

who - in spite of the reflexive facepalm of anyone who remembers the time - was actually a good president in difficult times, who gets better as time goes by.

For anyone who doesn't remember, he campaigned on and held to a strong policy of fiscal responsibility, which put him at odds with people on all sides. The rhetoric was as heated then as now, he was stabbed in the back and abandoned by his constituency (as I recall - I need to look some details up) and in the end he had his balls handed to him in the general election.

Everyone knows it went downhill from there, and instead of getting things in order, we had massive (R)-style deficits and spending for 12 years straight, mostly building a top-tier ruling class. I don't know what kind of crap we'd get this time if Obama doesn't take a 2nd term, but it would definitely be something ugly.

[Eddie Haskell]

115. Better mad than apathetic

Better on my feet than on my ass.

[davsand]

118. Forming a circular firing squad happens at DU sometimes. It heals, usually.

DU has always seemed like a great big dysfunctional family. Things are tense today, but I have seen this place pull through other tough times before so I am not terribly worked up right now. We survived the Naderites, the Green Wars, the Deaniacs -v- the Clarkies, the gay wars, the women's wars, and all the black box voting stuff. The Primaries have not killed us, and EIGHT long years under the regime of dubya the wunder shrub only left us mean as hell and ready to eat our young--along with anybody else that fell under our wrathful gaze.

Yep, Kentuck, I can't say I'm all that thrilled with the rumors I'm hearing, but I want to stress that I have not seen too much out there that is an actual FACT free of somebody's spin. Keep your powder dry--there is a lot of time left for those who are playing to win!




Laura