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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 09:45 AM Original message |
ANTI-War Movies do NOT work. |
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david_vincent (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 09:47 AM Response to Original message |
1. You forgot Paths of Glory |
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lame54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 04:19 PM Response to Reply #1 |
76. my first thought... |
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brooklynite (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 09:49 AM Response to Original message |
2. Are they supposed to? |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 09:53 AM Response to Reply #2 |
6. The artists involved with each of those made those films expressly to teach and stop war |
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EstimatedProphet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 10:00 AM Response to Reply #6 |
95. You really think Apocalypse Now glorified Vietnam? |
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Hassin Bin Sober (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 04:54 PM Response to Reply #95 |
112. Yes. I do and I have seen it several times. |
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Erose999 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 09:51 AM Response to Original message |
3. MASH certainly didn't make ME want to go enlist, lol. |
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Electric Monk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 09:53 AM Response to Original message |
4. Your point being, people should stop making them? Thanks for your concern. |
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Hangingon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 09:53 AM Response to Original message |
5. Never thought of SPR as an anti-war movie. |
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dbonds (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 09:55 AM Response to Original message |
7. Anti-war movies did work and teach the public until... |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 09:57 AM Response to Reply #7 |
9. Full Metal Jacket is absolutely one of the TOP recruitment movies. n/t |
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dbonds (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:05 AM Response to Reply #9 |
16. How can anyone watch that and see anything but insanity. |
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Rebubula (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:06 AM Response to Reply #9 |
17. According to whom? |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:22 AM Response to Reply #17 |
25. FMJ is a favorite film of the following: |
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dbonds (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 11:38 AM Response to Reply #25 |
38. Those list are not because of recruiting status |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 11:51 AM Response to Reply #38 |
39. I'm sorry, but the Stormfront neo-nazi's are involving nuance in their fav film list in your eye's? |
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dbonds (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 11:53 AM Response to Reply #39 |
40. In their list was Star Wars, Stripes, LoTR, other films with no combat at all. |
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hifiguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 11:21 AM Response to Reply #25 |
105. Stanley Kubrick would certainly be amused by that fact |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 12:02 PM Response to Reply #105 |
108. He would not be. Remember he banned Clockwork Orange in UK after multiple rapists did "Singing in t |
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marmar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 09:57 AM Response to Original message |
8. The body parts being blown off in Saving Private Ryan didn't exactly make war seem cool. |
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Shagbark Hickory (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 09:58 AM Response to Original message |
10. It worked on me. nm |
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Cirque du So-What (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 09:58 AM Response to Original message |
11. What could possibly be construed as 'cool'... |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:00 AM Response to Reply #11 |
13. That is the exception I mentioned in my original post. But few will ever see it. n/t |
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Cirque du So-What (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:07 AM Response to Reply #13 |
18. Sorry, didn't read the OP |
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Electric Monk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:30 AM Response to Reply #13 |
28. No you didn't. You alluded to it, but did not mention it by name. |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 03:00 PM Response to Reply #13 |
63. The scene in "Hair" where the troops are marching into the black maw |
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EstimatedProphet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 10:08 AM Response to Reply #63 |
96. The scene in Apocalypse Now at the bridge is nightmare-inducing |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 10:38 AM Response to Reply #96 |
99. Yeah, that was one of the great war movies. FMJ is still |
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Bigmack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:00 AM Response to Original message |
12. Same with books.... |
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lame54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 04:22 PM Response to Reply #12 |
78. you should have read All Quiet On The Western Front |
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MADem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:01 AM Response to Original message |
14. They worked GREAT back when we had a draft during the Vietnam era |
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KurtNYC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:04 AM Response to Original message |
15. Not sure what you mean by "don't work" -- they are MOVIES |
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coalition_unwilling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 11:12 AM Response to Reply #15 |
36. You don't think 'Full Metal Jacket' is anti-war? We must have seen |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 11:30 AM Response to Reply #36 |
37. Then why is FMJ at the very top of every soldiers and wannabe's favorite film list? |
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KurtNYC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 04:13 PM Response to Reply #36 |
74. I think if the message is too heavy then Americans ignore it |
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CBGLuthier (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 07:37 AM Response to Reply #36 |
90. It was a satire of american jingoism and militarism. |
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sarge43 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:09 AM Response to Original message |
19. It's even more fundamental |
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Blue_Tires (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:09 AM Response to Original message |
20. Watch these and get back to me... |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:15 AM Response to Reply #20 |
21. Patton may have been intended as anti-war, but it's a recruitment film that glorifies, Dr. S is |
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Blue_Tires (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 11:02 AM Response to Reply #21 |
35. Also, a few years back there was a 'modern' production of Henry V |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 03:28 PM Response to Reply #21 |
70. In what way does Patton glorify? And in what way is the definition |
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xocet (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:19 AM Response to Original message |
22. How about Gallipoli? n/t |
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Iggo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:20 AM Response to Original message |
23. Apocalyse Now certainly worked on me. |
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leveymg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:21 AM Response to Original message |
24. Guess we should add a lot of SF are war movies or recruiting films in disguise |
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Iggo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:23 AM Response to Reply #24 |
26. Jeez. Have you seen the TV show 'Falling Skies'? |
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leveymg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:28 AM Response to Reply #26 |
27. Started to last night, but my kid wanted to see something else. |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:37 AM Response to Reply #24 |
29. The point is that Anti-War films are made expressly to fight war - yet they foster and support War. |
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Electric Monk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:39 AM Response to Reply #29 |
30. I think you're the only person on this thread so far who agrees with your premise, |
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alcibiades_mystery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:44 AM Response to Original message |
31. I think you put your finger on WHY they don't work |
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kenny blankenship (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:51 AM Response to Original message |
32. Two antiwar war movies that achieve their antiwar goals |
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Morning Dew (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:53 AM Response to Original message |
33. Samuel Fuller's The Big Red One (The Reconstruction) isn't anti-war |
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BOG PERSON (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 12:39 PM Response to Reply #33 |
53. samuel fuller rules |
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Morning Dew (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 03:19 PM Response to Reply #53 |
68. I'll have to find it. There's a short clip on youtube. Looks good. Thanks! |
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CBGLuthier (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 07:40 AM Response to Reply #33 |
91. Fine film. The reconstruction is next in my netflix queue |
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dissidentboomer (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 10:53 AM Response to Original message |
34. I think you're right, as they don't work on anyone except the |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 03:18 PM Response to Reply #34 |
67. Thin Red Line!!!! Malick!!! |
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krabigirl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 11:54 AM Response to Original message |
41. really? I think it had the opposite affect on me. |
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JackDragna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 11:58 AM Response to Original message |
42. Dupe |
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MicaelS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 11:59 AM Response to Original message |
43. The problem with most anti-war films |
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JackDragna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 12:02 PM Response to Reply #43 |
45. Elem Klimov, maker of "Come and See," |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 03:39 PM Response to Reply #43 |
73. Geez, most of the WW2 generation served. I know Robert Altman |
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JackDragna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 12:00 PM Response to Original message |
44. MASH I might give you. Maybe even the others.. |
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LeftinOH (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 12:03 PM Response to Original message |
46. 'All Quiet on the Western Front' was banned in Germany: it's pretty potent: |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 12:04 PM Response to Original message |
47. US Army newspaper "Army Times" list of Top 10 Movies, #1Full Metal Jacket |
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petronius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 01:06 PM Response to Reply #47 |
56. I think you are conflating 'great military movie' with 'great recruitment movie' |
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MilesColtrane (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 12:05 PM Response to Original message |
48. "the hero who transcends and excels" |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 12:26 PM Response to Reply #48 |
49. You really think the fat, slow-witted guy with no friends and hated by all is the anti-war messenger |
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MilesColtrane (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 12:37 PM Response to Reply #49 |
51. His fellow recruits are made to hate him by their drill instructor. |
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MilesColtrane (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 12:32 PM Response to Original message |
50. Gallipoli, The Deer Hunter, Three Kings... |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 12:38 PM Response to Reply #50 |
52. Deer Hunter? Very popular military movie, Kings as well. Most will never see Gallipoli |
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JackDragna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 02:53 PM Response to Reply #52 |
62. The Deer Hunter is popular.. |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 03:14 PM Response to Reply #62 |
65. The Russian Roulette scene makes war look so yummy! |
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Hangingon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 09:49 AM Response to Reply #52 |
94. The Aussies do make great military movies, |
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CBGLuthier (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 12:48 PM Response to Original message |
54. So any true anti war movie like Gallipoli, Johnnie Got his Gun, or even Breaker Morant |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 03:17 PM Response to Reply #54 |
66. Or films such as Coming Home and Born On the 4th of July |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 04:13 PM Response to Reply #54 |
75. Aussies see the two as Anti-English, not as anti-war and they stir martial feelings in the young men |
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BOG PERSON (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 12:50 PM Response to Original message |
55. what about "the cranes are flying" |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 01:10 PM Response to Reply #55 |
57. I had to look that one up. 1957, USSR? Dubbed or Subtitled? |
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BOG PERSON (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 01:13 PM Response to Reply #57 |
58. subtitled |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 01:19 PM Response to Reply #58 |
59. Perhaps I underestimated it's influence on American young men. n/t |
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Baclava (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 01:59 PM Response to Original message |
60. Fail-Safe is a pretty spooky little movie |
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NightWatcher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 02:30 PM Response to Original message |
61. ever seen Johnny Got His Gun (or Metallica's "One" video)? |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 03:12 PM Response to Original message |
64. This is just silliness. First of all, the entire theory hinges on |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 03:37 PM Response to Reply #64 |
72. Film was found to exhibit both manifest and latent references to the four recruiting themes... |
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Rockholm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 03:23 PM Response to Original message |
69. Independence Day, Transformers, Star Trek and Harry Potter glorify war. |
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sad sally (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 03:28 PM Response to Original message |
71. "Young men will always take the role of the hero?" |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 04:20 PM Response to Original message |
77. Jarhead: A Marine's Chronicle of the Gulf War and Other Battles: |
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lame54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 04:22 PM Response to Original message |
79. I don't the name of the exception |
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pinboy3niner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 04:28 PM Response to Reply #79 |
81. 'Johnny Got His Gun' |
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lame54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 05:00 PM Response to Reply #81 |
82. I had no idea that was a financial flop... |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 05:35 PM Response to Reply #82 |
87. Most people do not know the fillm, let alone the book |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 04:25 PM Response to Original message |
80. "When I saw Platoon in its theatrical release, I was surprised by the audience reaction..." |
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lame54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 05:03 PM Response to Reply #80 |
83. did you join up?... |
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pinboy3niner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 05:21 PM Response to Reply #83 |
84. People came out of the movie in tears, overwhelmed with sadness, unable to speak |
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lame54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 05:30 PM Response to Reply #84 |
85. it is a great film - very effective |
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Warren DeMontague (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 05:34 PM Response to Original message |
86. I made the mistake of going to see a Matinee of "Platoon" in High School, stoned out of my gourd. |
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lame54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 06:03 PM Response to Reply #86 |
88. then it wasn't a mistake |
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Warren DeMontague (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-11-11 06:32 PM Response to Reply #88 |
89. To be fair, it didn't teach me anything I didn't already feel. |
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lunatica (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 07:44 AM Response to Original message |
92. Your argument is really shallow |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 09:29 AM Response to Reply #92 |
93. Actually, I quoted and linked academic studies and serious criticism - my opinion is not unique |
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JackDragna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 02:16 PM Response to Reply #93 |
110. Really? Where did you link this "serious criticism?" |
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marions ghost (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 10:11 AM Response to Original message |
97. No movies will make anyone stop doing anything |
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masonjason22 (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 10:24 AM Response to Original message |
98. Platoon |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 10:41 AM Response to Original message |
100. By "work" you apparently mean propagandize. And you forgot "Born on the Fourth of July". |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 10:59 AM Response to Reply #100 |
103. Red Dawn? That's Militia music probably second only to The Turner Diaries as a Motivator. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 11:19 AM Response to Reply #103 |
104. Red Dawn fans are subject to immediate ridicule. |
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EstimatedProphet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 10:44 AM Response to Original message |
101. Flags Of Our Fathers, Letters From Iwo Jima, Enemy At The Gates |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 10:57 AM Response to Reply #101 |
102. Those are some of the worst examples, total glory and Sniper-porn. You are obv. not susceptible.... |
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EstimatedProphet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 11:25 AM Response to Reply #102 |
106. Nonsense |
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nomb (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 11:50 AM Response to Reply #106 |
107. No, but those that fuel the fire, however unintentional, are held to account. Ask Nietzsche. |
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EstimatedProphet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 04:45 PM Original message |
I hereby invoke Godwin's Law |
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EstimatedProphet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 04:45 PM Response to Reply #107 |
111. Dupe |
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grahamhgreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-12-11 12:03 PM Response to Original message |
109. They worked on me. |
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