Bullshit Mr. president, make them blink, call their bluff stop dancing on the head of a pin

[DainBramaged]

either walk away and let the Government shut down and destroy the GOP or DEMAND they meet your goals.

STOP FUCKING AROUND.

[LoZoccolo]

1. Any strategy designed to decieve the enemy is likely to confuse the allies as well. n/t

[dbonds]

2. And very likely to make him a one term president.

[LoZoccolo]

3. That would be unfortunate.

Because it would mean that the voters would be paying more attention to the frustrations they felt as novice armchair strategists than they did with the results and a sober assessment of the situation and it's possibilities.

[tekisui]

6. LOL! Blaming the voters is pathetic.

If he fails to win re-election it is his own damn fault as a candidate.

[LoZoccolo]

13. "Fault" isn't a concept I use much in these debates.

"Fault" is when you try to single one party out for punitive corrective action, often to the exclusion of others.

Obama is in an unfortunate position in that in order to deal with a well-funded propaganda machine belonging to his opposition, and the fact that the other side has managed to capture a big share of low-information voters, he has to employ strategies that by their nature are poorly understood by even educated people (a situation possible if anyone allows their emotions to distract from a cold reading of the situation).

How do you know that choosing a more obvious strategy will not also make him lose?

[dbonds]

15. It isn't about Obama winning or losing, it is about the people.

If the people loose, screw all of DC.

[LoZoccolo]

20. People decide whether he wins or loses. n/t

[dbonds]

23. Yes, so you reinforced my point. It is about the people and their living conditions.

Whether Obama wins or looses is of no consequence if the people are still in pain.

[Marr]

30. And if he loses, he has by definition employed a *losing strategy*.

[RC]

28. Then just why do we see what needs to be done and why and Obama does not?

I voted for a Liberal. Where is that person now?

[global1]

22. If He Fails To Win Re-election Any Gains That He Gets During This Negotiation.......

will be reversed under a Repug administration. He's got to take winning re-election into consideration in this and along with this he needs to think of maintaining the Senate and re-winning the House.

I understand what he is saying re: compromise and shared sacrifice - but I sense that he is naive to think that the other side shares his feelings about it.

Already I'm hearing that any tax increases don't come into play until after 2013. I think I heard right that he just said that in this news conference.

That just gets both parties past the 2012 election. If he doesn't get re-elected any gains are gone because we all know that they will be reversed.

In my mind he's got the Repugs right where he should have them now. He's put SS, Medicare and Medicaid on the table. Asked them to put tax increases on the table and they refused. Given that - the American public will see most openly who is not cooperating in this negotiation and who is not being sincere. He and the Dems can use that to win re-election and take back the House. He can always use the 14th Amendment to raise the debt ceiling.

Instead it looks like he is turning around and bending over and letting the Repugs have the better of him again.

I know that he thinks he means well - but I really wonder what kind of advisers he has if they aren't pointing this out to him. I'm getting more and more frustrated as this goes on. I sense that it isn't going to go the way most Dems and Progressives want it to. The Repugs are gloating when they get together because it looks like they still have the upper hand in this.

If the tables were turned the Repugs wouldn't hesitate to turn up the heat. This President either doesn't seem to want to turn up the heat on them or doesn't know how to do it.

[dbonds]

11. Or it means the pain of living with these policies got people off their ass.

People aren't novice armchair strategists, they are the one the dc gods are creating the situation of their lives. If the lives suck people overthrow their gods.

We should primary Obama. He can't win anyway, so lets put someone in that can.

[flamingdem]

25. +100 Well said. nt

[LaurenG]

4. There is nothing to be confused over.

Confusion heard his voice, and wild uproar Stood ruled, stood vast infinitude confined; Till at his second bidding darkness fled, Light shone, and order from disorder sprung.
John Milton

[LoZoccolo]

5. All warfare is based on deception. (Sun Tzu) n/t

[LaurenG]

9. All deception in the course of life is indeed nothing else but a lie reduced to

practice, and falsehood passing from words into things. - Robert Southey

[dbonds]

14. You need the support of the people (Sun Tzu)

[LoZoccolo]

18. I would agree, and I'm pointing out a difficult dilemma.

It becomes less of a dilemma, though, if we make sure we're dealing with the situation with intellectual honestly and without distorted emotions.

[dbonds]

21. My intellectual honesty is based on what I and the people I know experience.

I can't trust anything anyone in DC says, although I listen. Words never match actions. So we are already hurting, and hurting bad. My town was destroyed in a the 4/27 tornado swarm so we are hurting very bad. Anything that causes more pain and not relief will not go over at all.

[tekisui]

7. You assume there is more to his strategy than saving political face.

[FLyellowdog]

8. I believe Pres. Obama is a better person than that. nt.

[tekisui]

He may be better than that, but I am not sure he is stronger than that.

[LoZoccolo]

16. I'm not sure he's really engaged in that because no matter how long the list

of accomplishments gets, the professional left (some of whom we have seen are more than happy to carry out contracts from the right for money) will never be satisfied. There is little to no incentive to save face amongst his harshest critics.

[flamingdem]

26. yup nt

[Marr]

29. In other words, 30-Dimensional Chess. lol.

I think that's become something of a joke-- just so you know.

[LoZoccolo]

32. Global warming deniers like to make a joke out of cold winters. n/t

[Karmadillo]

10. Their bluff is his bluff.

nt

[Chipper Chat]

12. I think he just said that.

So I'll take him at his word.

[yodermon]

17. HE KNOWS that the tea party caucus *WANTS* and *DEMANDS* a government default.

He can "bend over backwards" :rofl: all he wants. He knows, knows, KNOWS, that the teabaggers are full-bore-batshit-fuck-all insane, and have Boner by the Balls, and will cause a Default because that is their PRECISE GOAL.

See here? Their Queen has spoken:

Palin, in an interview appearing in Newsweek, "made it clear that she's against any deal that raises the debt ceiling and would hold House Speaker John Boehner's feet to the fire if he agreed to one" according to the magazine.

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/170585-palin-warns-boehner-on-debt-ceiling#ixzz1RoQMJu86

http://nation.foxnews.com/debt-ceiling/2011/07/11/palin-issues-stern-warning-boehner-about-debt-ceiling

the more he "bends over backwards" :rofl: he gains more political capital with the drooling "independents", who always decide elections.

[lib2DaBone]

19. Mr. Obama today, "It's tough for a family making $80,000 a year...."

"..it's tough for a family making $80,000 a year... when they are trying to send their kid to college."

Yes, true Mr. President. But how about a family of four making $10,000 a year who are having a hard time finding food to eat? Does anyone in Washigton get it?

[Javaman]

24. just goes to show just how removed from reality he is. nt

[Fumesucker]

27. $80K / year?

:rofl:

How about a 99er Mr President?

[xphile]

31. They're either invisible or they don't exist. Because I don't recall hearing about them from the

President.