Ok, who and when was the last person who could be considered left wing killed people?

[hootinholler]

The only thing I can think of is the weather underground back in what, the 70s?

Maybe there was some radical environmentalist taking action against logging, but I don't recall any.

I'm asking seriously, because I know I'm going to be hearing about both sides doing it and I want to know the facts so I can unload.

A little help?

-Hoot

[Texasgal]

1. The unibomber?

:shrug:

[Justitia]

4. the unibomber was certainly NOT left wing -eom

[obliviously]

40. Read his manifesto

[Justitia]

42. I have - have you? Did you miss all the parts about "leftists" & "leftism" ?

And how he thought not only that it was a psychological disorder, but that it made for inferior beings?

Uh, yeah.

[obliviously]

56. Isn't it odd for a right wing capitalist to hate Industrialism though?

[Justitia]

58. Kaczynski was seriously against technology, he was a primitivist.

Which is also a RW ideology.

If you read his manifesto, he has nothing but contempt for "leftists" and "leftism".

However, be careful reading too much into the writings of madmen, looking for sense.

[obliviously]

62. Oh so this was a right wing environmentalist.

He is probably for all that cap and trade stuff!

[Justitia]

64. Do you understand primitivism and it's relationship to "leftists"? They view them as "corrupt".

And if you had read Kaczynski's drivel, you would understand exactly what he thought of "leftism" and "leftists".

You cannot classify such positions on our modern spectrum of electoral politics.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Justitia]

87. Thanks, but I'm not a guy.

And sorry if I haven't encouraged you to understand the 'unibomber' in the lexicon of whackos a bit better.

[hootinholler]

96. Probably why you seem like a nice guy

:hide:

-Hoot

[Odin2005]

65. He was a luddite and pretty much outside the traditional ideological labels

[Justitia]

67. yes, thank you. -eom

[obliviously]

2. The guy that crashed the small plane

into the IRS building in Texas

[Justitia]

5. not left wing - he was anti-government -eom

[valerief]

7. Stack drove the plane into the IRS building because he bitched about paying taxes. That's RW. nt

[greytdemocrat]

10. Commie!!! N/T

[fascisthunter]

26. that was an anti-tax right winger

welcome to ignore

[HubertHeaver]

3. The Anarchist that shot Garfield.

[PurityOfEssence]

54. Sorry, you're thinking McKinley

Leon Czolgosz was an anarchist who shot McKinley; Garfield was shot by a disgruntled office-seeker who was certifiably nuts, Charles Guiteau.

[HubertHeaver]

113. Sorry, my bad. Thanks for the correction

edit to fix spelling

[CTyankee]

117. Wow, now THAT's a reach back!

Kinda proves the point here, if you have to go back a century and a half just to dig up ONE example...

[Kievan Rus]

6. The IWW (Wobblies) over 100 years ago

[valerief]

9. Who was the victim and who was the killer? nt

[Puregonzo1188]

43. Who did the IWW kill?

[Kievan Rus]

63. I had them confused with someone else. I was thinking of the 1886 Haymarket affair

and after reading an article on it, saw that anarchists did that, not the IWW.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

91. Actually in both cases

IWW and the activist at Haymarket both were killed by the 'establishment'. If they killed anyone it was because they were being attacked (Everett Massacre-1916)
http://www.epls.org/nw/dig_emassacre.asp

[readmoreoften]

93. +1

[Jackpine Radical]

122. Yes, Haymarket was a classic example of blaming the victims.

The cops opened fire & then claimed they had been shot at.

[readmoreoften]

92. Incorrect. Anarchists were BLAMED for it.

[readmoreoften]

90. Wobblies never killed anyone.

[lumberjack_jeff]

114. Centralia massacre

It's debatable whether it was self defense. Not debatable that they killed Legionnaires.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_Massacre_(Washington)

I'm descended from Molly Maguires. It's been awhile.

[DCKit]

8. Try again, "left-wing, with left-wing values".

There's a difference when someone picks and chooses which issues to become criminally obsessed over. Thanks to St. Ronnie and (R) policies, they walk among us without medication and supervision.

That isn't U.S..

[Webster Green]

11. The Weather Underground did not kill people.

They did blow up a shit-load of stuff, like police stations and government offices (including offices at the US Capitol Bldg.), but nobody was killed aside from 3 of their own members who were assembling a bomb in NYC.

[hootinholler]

13. Ah, Thanks for that refresher...

I'm fuzzy and thus I was asking for help.

-Hoot

[LisaL]

15. Their own members are people, aren't they?

[Webster Green]

20. Of course they were, and it was very sad.

In fact, the bomb they were building was intended to kill people at a military dance. It was kind of a renegade action, and it caused the Weathermen to go out of their way after that incident, to make sure nobody was present at the locations they bombed.

[LisaL]

34. My point is, if their own members were killed then weather

underground killed people even if it were not intentional.

[Webster Green]

38. I agree. I stand corrected (or something).

My point was they weren't out to kill people, and after that incident they were very careful.

[readmoreoften]

86. Doctors kill people intentionally. Violence means you INTEND to kill. The ENEMY. Not your own people

and not by accident.

[LisaL]

102. Hello?

This is the question OP is asking:
"Ok, who and when was the last person who could be considered left wing killed people?"
Please don't add all these qualifiers that are not in the OP.

[readmoreoften]

82. "killing" and "were killed accidently" are entirely different things.

You can't say that an accident is an act of violent murder. If an anti-logging activist falls out of a tree or an anarchist suffocates on a friend's black bandana those are accidents not "violent activity."

[Common Sense Party]

16. Their shit didn't stink, huh?

Tell that to the families of Officers O'Grady and Brown.

[Webster Green]

23. More info would be appreciated.

What's the story?

edit: Never mind. I looked it up. Those were a few former WU members who splintered into other organizations that remained radical and were violent, such as The Black Liberation Movement. So, there's a group that was leftist and did kill cops, but the Weathermen were played out by then.

[Crabby Appleton]

31. Kathy Boudin & friends - '81 armored car robbery

[Webster Green]

36. Yeah, I googled it.

See above post. I remember one of the women involved in that was interviewed in the documentary 'The Weather Underground'(which is excellent BTW). That stuff was post Weathermen era, but news reports at the time played up the Weather connection because there were a few former members. They took things a little farther than the weathermen did.

[Puregonzo1188]

47. And they weren't in the Weather Underground then.

Look I am not fan of the Weather Underground and in a lot of ways resent very strongly what they did. That I think their general outlook was skewed.

That being said you can't blame the Brinks robbery on the WUO.

[Journeyman]

12. Jim Jones. . .

[hootinholler]

17. What???

I find that assertion hard to believe. I don't think his cult was particularly left or right, but again I'm fuzzy on that.

Could you please clarify how his cult was on the left?

-Hoot

[Journeyman]

22. Why don't you research it?. . .

He was a self-proclaimed socialist, member of the American Communist Party, and strong supporter of Democratic politicians throughout the Bay Area and the United States. He met and corresponded often with the First Lady of the United States, Rosalyn Carter, and was feted at a testimonial dinner by California Governor Jerry Brown (along with Mervyn Dymally and Willie Brown). Walter Mondale met privately with him during the 1976 campaign and publicly praised the People's Temple.

You may wish to do a little research on your own, but I believe you'll find only further confirmation of what I've written.

[hootinholler]

27. Interesting,

I will look into it, thanks. Were the killings political? I know there was a representative shot at the airport, but my understanding was his death was more of a crossfire situation.

-Hoot

[jberryhill]

37. No, it was a deliberate ambush

He was deliberately assassinated.

He went to investigate whether people were there against their will. Several detectors joined him to depart, and Jones freaked out. Had he not done that, nothing much really would have come of the visit.

[JDPriestly]

89. That was 1978 -- during the Carter presidency.

That was more than 30 years ago.

Jim Jones was a fanatical pseudo-Christian. He was not really what you would call a leftist, and certainly not involved in the American left movement (which used to be considered centrist) that has developed since Reagan.

There really isn't much left left in the US.

I was considered quite middle-of-the-road until the Republican right-wing became so nastily fanatical and irrational.

[Quantess]

110. Jim Jones would fall under the category of religious nut

who killed his own followers.

Anything else is just a cherry on that nut-sundae.

[Straw Man]

25. Ask the Wiki...

...about Jim Jones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

[hootinholler]

46. Thanks!

That was helpful.

-Hoot

[Justitia]

32. You do realize that Jim Jones had a DEMOCRATIC congressman killed, don't you?

The only Congressman ever killed in the line of duty.

Jim Jones was a fucking insane murderous CULT LEADER.

RIP, Rep. Leo Ryan

[Journeyman]

33. The question was about left wing murderers, not their victims . . .

And do tell, what makes a cult leader impervious to political leanings?

[Justitia]

35. the implication was "political murder". Jones was not a political assassin, he was a cult leader.

[hootinholler]

45. I would classify sending a bunch of guys with guns out to kill a congressman qualifies.

It doesn't appear to have been generated by angry rhetoric, but indeed, Jones was farther left than I.

It's telling that we have to reach back that far to find someone.

-Hoot

[Justitia]

48. He was attempting to evade the law, not make a political statement.

Jones killed everyone that day, not one of them over political differences.

[hootinholler]

59. I think it was to make a political statement...

At the end of the tape, Jones concludes: "We didn't commit suicide, we committed an act of revolutionary suicide protesting the conditions of an inhumane world." Down in the middle of the article.

-Hoot

[Justitia]

61. Are you claiming Jim Jones was a political assassin?

[hootinholler]

72. Well, what he did really wasn't an assasination, so no.

But it clearly was politically motivated. It is also clearly not analogous to today's, er, yesterday's events.

This is not the sort of incident I was looking for, but it fits the question I asked. If only I had asked what I meant, but even now I'm not sure how to phrase that question. If that doesn't make a lot of sense, it's ok, I'll get over it.

-Hoot

[Justitia]

83. Yeah, I've gotten confused on if we were talking about political assassins or something else.

Like murderers who might have voted for a Democrat in their lives.

Anyway, it has brought up a fascinating discussion of some really chilling history.

Now, I'm creeped out.

[hootinholler]

100. What is most interesting to me at this point

Is how far we've had to stretch to come up with anything from the left even approaching the current situation.

I find that a small comfort.

-Hoot

[Justitia]

101. yes, indeed. I am intrigued, however, to read up on the Archduke, mentioned in this thread, LOL nt

[hootinholler]

107. I'm assuming they mean

Archduke Ferdinand, whose assassination sparked WWI.

-Hoot

[Justitia]

111. yup, my recollection of his assassin is rusty! Thnx for the handy link.

Although I should be doing something more relaxing than "killers" at this hour.

[Journeyman]

52. Yes, because what is "tree spiking" if not a political statement. . .

[Art_from_Ark]

116. Well, Lawrence McDonald (D-Ga) was traveling to S. Korea

in an official capacity (representing the US at a ceremony marking the 30th anniversary of the United States–South Korea Mutual Defense Treaty) when the plane he was riding in, KAL 007, was shot down by a Russian fighter jet on August 28, 1983. He wasn't expressly targeted, but I think you could still say he was killed in the line of duty.

[obliviously]

14. Charles Manson

[hootinholler]

You're just being silly now. n/t

[pa28]

24. He's got a swastika tattooed on his forehead.

This was before my time so I don't know the whole story. From what I've seen he strikes me as a totally unfettered right wing loon.

[greytdemocrat]

51. Hmmm...

An obvious KKKrove plant from the future...it explains much.

[Odin2005]

71. Trying to start a race war is not left-wing.

[Iggo]

18. That bomb-thrower who killed the Archduke?

I dunno...

[WinkyDink]

118. Gunshots. I saw the car.

It's in a museum in Austria.

[Kaleva]

19. The nationalist Puerto Ricans who attempted to kill Truman?

I think they killed a police officer during the attempt.

[rucky]

21. Joe Stack n/t

[fascisthunter]

28. Joe Stack was anti-tax.... he was definitely NOT part of the left

:eyes:

[rucky]

30. I dunno. Read his manifesto.

They're never right on the talking points. It's amusing that it's so hard to tell.

[Justitia]

41. are you kidding? Anti-tax, anti-gov't - classic rightwing. -eom

[rucky]

53. Anti-Bush, Anti Corporation, Anti-War

He could just be all-around anti-government.

[Justitia]

60. Anti-Govt IS rightwing. Anti-tax movements are part of anti-govt. movements.

You recognize that anti-tax, anti-gov't murderers are part of the "Patriot" movement don't you?
This includes militias, Timothy McVeigh types.

As a mbr of the SPLC, I'm concerned that this is not more clear to people here.

From the SPLC, an article on the Patriot movement:

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/summer/meet-the-patriots

[joshcryer]

70. Wrong, anti-government can be left wing, see: anarchism.

[Odin2005]

79. left-wing Statists are almost as bad as Right-wing ones.

[joshcryer]

74. BTW, anti-tax movements are typically pro-privately-gun-government.

They just fail to see the distinction. If I have to pay a private police force to protect my property or a private firestation to protect my property, the difference is hardly relevant. Anti-government leftists are anti-property, thus would not need private service industries to protect anything.

[Odin2005]

77. So Anarcho-Socialists are Right-wing?

What an offensive post.

[Justitia]

97. Are you claiming Joseph Stack was an Anarcho-Socialist?

[Odin2005]

104. No. I'm saying he was not really either Right or Left, he was just pissed off.

His manifesto contained things that were both left-wing and right-wing, and mix of very valid points and utter nonsense.

I'm the Anarcho-Socialist. ;-)

[Odin2005]

73. Stack was pretty much in the middle, he had just as many LW beliefs ans RW ones.

[Jamastiene]

29. For the most part, we don't seem to do that.

You might not get crickets, but you also won't get a huge list that needs a drum roll either. Usually, it is the right that is hellbent on becoming the biggest mass murdering fuckheads they can be.

[IamK]

39. Carol Anne Burger;Amy Bishop;Lee Harvy Oswald;ELF...

[Justitia]

50. Your first two names are completely ridiculous. They were personal revenge stories. -eom

[jberryhill]

44. Mumia Abu Jamal

...and the MOVE members who killed James Ramp.

[readmoreoften]

68. You've got to be joking.

[woo me with science]

49. Sara Jane Olson tried

It was in the 70's, of course. But she was defended by many here more recently, who did not believe she should have to serve time for what she did.

ELF is violent.

I believe shots were fired into Republican campaign offices during the Bush years.

[Mojeoux]

55. Jim Jones called himself a liberal.`

All the while he exploited and abused poor people. Manson was a political nimrod, a clueless duffass. Jim Jones worked and gamed the left wing of the San Francisco and Bay area. He infected his followers with his crazy ideas and gave them the poison koolade.

[greytdemocrat]

95. And this is good??

It never surprises me how we can screw ourselveles....

[Quantess]

112. But Jim Jones killed his own followers.

Not exactly the equivalent of murdering people he disageed with politically.

[Motown_Johnny]

57. The only logging incident I can recall

was when the trees were having spikes driven into them to damage the equipment of the loggers



As memory serves (and I could be wrong) I think a band saw blade broke on a spike and ended up killing someone working near it.

[starroute]

78. Spiking was meant to protect trees, not damage equipment

There wouldn't have been much point for a dedicated tree-hugger to spike a tree in the hopes that somebody would try to cut it down and get hurt. As I recall, the Earth Firsters marked the trees they spiked to warn loggers away from them.

I do have some vague memory of the incident you describe, but I don't remember the circumstances. It may have been a spike that was in a tree for some other reason but was blamed on Earth First, or it may have been somebody being sloppy. Either way, my recollection is that afterward there were very stringent protocols about avoiding possible injuries.

[obliviously]

85. I don't think the guy had a family anyway.

[greytdemocrat]

99. Stop it. LOL!!!!

[Rex]

66. Actually, when was the last time America had such hate filled radio mouthpieces

and political scumbags telling people to 'shoot liberals'? Or republicans for that matter?

[hootinholler]

94. There was a preacher back in the early days of radio?

Ah, Father Coughlin I'm not sure if he got that radical or not.

-Hoot

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. He did, but he had a reach in the South and Midwest

not national.

[Odin2005]

69. A friend told me that Jim Jones was a member of the Communist Party.

Edit: realized that was already mentioned...

[Puregonzo1188]

76. I had heard he was trying to use his religion to spread communism, I don't know if he had been the

Party though. He def harbored leftist sentiments though.

[Puregonzo1188]

81. Just checked wikipedia. You are correct. He joined the CPUSA in 1951.

[readmoreoften]

88. And the neoconservatives were leftists in the early 60s. Doesn't mean anything.

Jones was a religious cult leader, not a leftist.

[Odin2005]

84. My friend like reading about cult leaders and serial killers, so I'll ask him.

[Mojeoux]

123. Jim Jones USED leftist sentiments. He only FELT power.

He was addicted to pain killers and treated his people like slaves. If he had real religious or political feelings, they were consumed by his thrill of exerting power. He didn't just kill his own people, he killed a Congressman. Our California Congresswoman, Jackie Spears was there as a Congressional assistant. She was shot and then had to play dead. Jim Jones was a fake and scam and a pig !

[readmoreoften]

75. The Red Brigade in the 1970s. Shining Path and other Stalinist-type organizations.

That's about it. And, for the record, the Zapatistas (who didn't kill anyone and hold weapons carved out of wood) don't count. You're literally talking about people who would starve to death if they didn't defend themselves against right-wing militia violence like Paz y Justicia, who massacre pacifists and rape women and children.

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. The closest you get, the ones you are thinking

are the ELF....

Earth Liberation Front.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front

Nominally lefties, but not really.

After them, yep the Weather Underground back in the early 1970s

[The Second Stone]

105. The guy who shot George Wallace?

Even though he was not killed. The thing is that American liberals are in favor of the benefits that government can supply, such as controlling violence. In that respect we are are for the status quo. We're against things that destabilize society. The wacko right has death squads all over the world and and in this country they finance all of them. They incite violence and hatred because it sells advertising and gets them elected to phoney baloney jobs.

[gkhouston]

108. Bremer wanted to be famous, IIRC. Didn't have anything to do with politics. n/t

[boppers]

106. No Lee Harvey Oswald suggestions yet?

Communist, wanted legal representation by the ACLU, pro-revolutionary?

[Justitia]

109. oh yeah, he's upthread, but we'll never really know, will we? LOL

Thanks, Jack Ruby

[eridani]

115. Symbionese Liberation Army n/t

[WinkyDink]

119. I inferred "in the United States." People are listing foreigners who don't fall into our

definitions of "Left" and "Right."

[Art_from_Ark]

120. Sarah Jane Moore claimed to be on the left

She shot at President Ford, but missed him by 6 inches in 1975.

[Azathoth]

121. Killed people, or tried to kill people? James J. Lee used a bomb to take hostages only 4 months ago

He didn't manage to kill anyone before the police shot him, but he certainly seemed prepared to do so.