Hartmann just announced that Dayton caved completely

[Doctor_J]

It's a 3-hr delayed broadcast, but Thom just read something from Fox Twin Cities that said that Dayton gave away everything to end the shutdown.

The end is near folks, we are going to have to start really fighting back, or learn to live in a 3rd world country.

[MadHound]

1. From what I heard on the news, he agreed to a budget with no increased tax revenue

So essentially Minnesota is going to be cutting to the bone.

Hopefully that isn't a harbinger of things to come on the Fed level.

[Doctor_J]

3. Or, IOW he gave the fascist legislature everything they wanted

and you can be damned sure that's EXACTLY what's going to happen at the Fed level.

[MineralMan]

9. Yes. We must reverse the disaster that was 2010, both

in our states and in the federal government. We fucked up big time. Most of the seats lost to Republicans in 2010 were lost by very narrow margins. Those losses are directly attributable to lower voter turnout. In districts where turnout was good, Democrats held their seats. In districts with low turnout, they lost. It is that simple.

In my district (and my precinct), we had a 60% turnout in 2010. We elected every Democrat on the ballot with a 60% margin. It is simply a matter of numbers. We blew it in 2010. We must not do that in 2012.

[elocs]

2. I've heard this earlier today as Minnesota Public Radio has been covering it for hours.

No matter how Dayton tries to spin it, he gave in, he blinked. Republicans will hail this as a victory.

I don't believe he gave away everything, but he gave away and gave in on too much such as his insistence on a tax increase.

[tsuki]

38. The problem is that Dayton has a conscience, the Roopublicon have greed. nt

[FLAprogressive]

4. This is what happens when Republicans are continually allowed to frame every issue.

[Doctor_J]

7. Which is not going to change until we take a few hundred of their

propaganda outlets off the air, using whatever means necessary.

[Poiuyt]

23. Not necessarily

But we do need to start with a strong and consistent message. We own the White House right now. Obama could put his people on all the talk shows pounding out the same message and it would sink in. That's what Bush did and for much of his presidency, it worked. Of course, we'd need Obama to come up with a good liberal message and not the conciliatory one that he tends to take.

[Doctor_J]

24. You're missing the big picture

That's what Bush did and for much of his presidency, it worked.

No, what worked for Bush was having 1200 radio stations and all of the cabal "news" shows saturating the airwaves so that no truth could get through. Obama can have his peeps do their 15 minutes once a week, but the rest of the week is still completely stuffed with lies and propaganda. Combine that with the fact that the president seems to be either a congenital backpedaler or moderate Republican, and your idea, while sounding reasonable, is really a non-starter.

[woo me with science]

42. You nailed it. People have been crowing that Obama is finally "using the bully pulpit."

Well, he is using it to argue within Republican framing, for his "big deal" of trimmed benefits and spending cuts.

Not what the country needs.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1482232

[FLAprogressive]

40. We controlled the framing of issues in 2006 and 2008. We should be able to do it again.

[MineralMan]

8. Here's the deal: Republicans gained control of both houses of

the legislature in 2010. Since, as with the federal government, all budget bills come from the legislature, the framing is absolutely going to be done by Republicans. many Democrats made a huge mistake in 2010 by sitting on their hands to punish President Obama. Had it not been for a third party candidate for Governor, Governor Dayton would have lost as well.

The Governor cannot frame a budget. All he can do is veto one. He did that. There is now an impasse. This sort of thing happens when different parties control the executive and legislative branches of government.

I can only hope that we learn from the 2010 election and reverse this whole mess in 2012. We fucked up royally in many parts of the state. Minneapolis and St. Paul did OK, and elected Democrats. Other districts lost their Democratic seats by very, very small margins. It is a lesson we should all be paying very close attention to right now. This is what happens. We can fix it next year. I hope we do.

[Doctor_J]

10. Oh, sorry, thanks for playing

The Governor cannot frame a budget

He most certainly can, if he is not the target of relentless, vile, 24/7 attacks by the media. If you don't think that the media's continuous 18-year onslaught against every Democrat in the country has had an effect, you need to wake the hell up.

[MineralMan]

11. Oh, I'm wide awake. I have been for decades.

Have a nice day.

[KharmaTrain]

16. Well Stated...Elections Have Consequences...

Imagine if the roles were changed...Democratic majorities in both houses and a rushpublican governor attempting to hold out, the howls around here would be deafening. Damned thing about a representative democracy...when your team doesn't win it's either cause of fraudulent voting machines or media propaganda...never about sitting on one's hands or fielding poor candidates.

Hopefuly the fine folks in Minnesota will turn out the teabaggers next year. In the meantime I wish Governor Dayton the best...I'm sorry he had to stand down.

[MineralMan]

18. I will be working as hard as I can to make that turnaround

happen. Me and a bunch of others who see what happened in 2010. The caucuses and conventions will not be the same as in 2010. I can assure you of that.

[KharmaTrain]

22. It's The Quiet Force Of 2012...

I'm very hopeful for you and many others who are stuck in states where voter apathy (especially Democrats) led to the teabagger waves to turn your state legislatures into a subsidiary of Koch Industries. The over-reach is pissing a lot of people off and happening in states that will be critical for President Obama's re-election next year. While people might not be happy with how this administration has handled some of the big ticket issues, the state elections will be as important, if not more...and that's where Democrats need to show and show big. Unfortunately it's taken the cutting of services and busting of unions to wake some people up, but now to keep them awake and active.

Cheers...

[MineralMan]

32. I think it's eminently doable. Some of my DFL friends

are looking forward to the battle.

[elocs]

19. Elections do have consequences as does choosing not to vote.

As MineralMan stated in post #9, low voter turnout was a problem as it was here in Wisconsin. In our 2010 election Walker got 90% of the vote total that McCain got in the presidential election and that's not too shabby. Barrett only received 60% of the vote that went to Obama in 2008.

Oh that we had a Democratic governor to put the brakes on the Republican legislature, but I hate that Dayton gave in because it will be seen as a victory for the Republicans all across the nation. It gives them inspiration and we sure didn't need for that to happen.

[KharmaTrain]

21. It Looks Like He Had Few Options...

Thank goodness for Governor Dayton, but he was going against a strong tide here and was apparently taking a major political hit. One hopes that Democrats in Minnesota who stayed home last year are now ready to take back their state from the Kochroaches...and the same goes for Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin.

I'm very familiar with the Wisconsin situation as I was in north suburban Milwaukee last April helping to get petitions signed to recall Alberta Darling. I've been donating to the Act Blue fund for all the recall candidates and am in contact with some friends about helping get people to the polls on election day. I'm glad to see how energized folks are in Wisconsin and I feel confident that the Democrats will win the 3 seats needed to put the breaks on Walker...but it'll still take a recall next year with big Democratic victories in 2012 to really fix the damage. That's a lot of work and I see many dedicated people out to make it happen. It's sad that it took this type of situation...just like in Minnesota...for people to wake up.

The rushpublican overstepping on the state level will be a quiet but major factor in next year's elections. The teabaggers are trying to do as much damage as they can while they can as their puppetmasters know this game has played out.

Cheers...

[elocs]

26. Success in the recall elections here will go a long way to set the stage for the Walker recall.

If we get the net 3 senate seats here to take control it will energize and encourage people that it can be done. This is just the prelude to the recall of Walker and politics here will be changed forever (there may be a time when we wish it wasn't though).

[JuniperLea]

25. If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice... eom

[elocs]

27. Certainly, and so you should be ready and willing to accept the consequences of that choice.

Choosing not to vote certainly looks pathetic when we see those in countries who get the vote for the first time walk miles to cast their ballot and even risk their lives to do so. I don't believe for a minute that most of those in this country who choose not to vote do it for any kind of noble cause.

[JuniperLea]

29. I don't think there is anything noble about not voting...

I can't think of one "noble cause" in my voting lifetime that would make me stay home!

We really don't get how good we have it here. As bad as things can get, there's plenty of places on Earth that are far worse... with people who don't take voting for granted.

[elocs]

31. Me neither, but some "claim" not to vote because both parties are the same,

when they are really passing off being lazy or disengaged for being noble.

That we have it so good here is a reason I have heard that people do not vote, that no matter how bad things get they are still pretty good for most.

Yes, voting is taken very much for granted here.

[sabrina 1]

30. You keep repeating that 'democrats sat on their hands to

punish President Obama'. This is false. Most progressive Democrats were reelected. Blue Dogs were not. And they are no loss. Especially since we were TOLD by the Leadership that it was the Blue Dogs who made it impossible to get anything, like a PO, passed. Now, if the Leadership was lying about that, or maybe using it as a way to excuse the failure of Democrats who controlled of both Houses of Congress and the WH, then it is on THEM. But THEY basically blamed all failures to pass progressive legislation on Blue Dogs.

What 'we' have to do is to continue to elect Progressive Democrats and rid the party of Dinos and DLCers.

And who, btw, was so petty as to attempt to destroy their country by 'punishing' President Obama? I have never, ever met a single Democrat who went to the polls and was not thinking of the best interests of their country. Can you point to someone, anyone, who has done this? You repeat it constantly so I'm sure you must know of such people. I can't even imagine such a mindset which is why I would not think to accuse anyone of doing so.

[MineralMan]

33. Are you in Minnesota? Do you work in the party here?

No? Then you know nothing about the politics in this state. I am in Minnesota, and I'm deeply involved in the party here. You are in no position to tell me what conditions were here in 2010. This thread is about Minnesota. You're in California. Bye now.

[sabrina 1]

34. I have family in Minnesota. You are not in any position to tell me

what I may or may not comment on. Use your ignore feature if you do not want to discuss issues that are uncomfortable for you to discuss. You make a lot of assumptions about people that are based on nothing. I know a great deal about Minn. as it is of great interest to my relatives in that state what goes on politically.

Please refrain from telling me what I know or don't know. I do not appreciate your assumptions most of which have been wrong. Consider asking people what they know or don't know before TELLING them what you think they know.

[MineralMan]

35. And I have family in California. I'm no longer involved in

California politics, so I don't have accurate, current information on them. I lived there for most of my life, and when I did, I was active in Democratic politics in that state. Now, I live in Minnesota, and am very active politically here. I leave California to the Californians.

As for your suggestions, I'll take them under advisement and give them all the consideration I think they're due.

I hope you enjoy the rest of your evening.

[sabrina 1]

37. And I'll give, as I always do, your suggestions, all the consideration

they are due.

Again you judge others by your own actions. I am as deeply involved in NY politics, eg, as I was when I left. You may choose to abandon your interest in other states simply because you do not live there anymore. Don't assume we are all you, we are not.

I will most definitely enjoy this evening as I always do, thanks for the good wishes. I hope you don't let little disagreements on the internet affect your enjoyment of yours.

:hi:

[mzmolly]

5. "Dayton imposed three conditions for his acceptance."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/minnesota-shutdown-ending-mark-dayton-offers-deal/2011/07/14/gIQAOdxJEI_blog.html

Dayton imposed three conditions for his acceptance.

One, that all other Republican policy proposals would be off the table for the rest of the year. GOP leaders had pressed for abortion and stem cell research restrictions, as well as stricter voter ID laws, as part of earlier talks.

Two, for Republicans to drop their demand for an across-the-board 15 percent cut in the number of employees in all state government agencies, which Dayton called “arbitrary.”

Three, that after the budget is finished, Republicans help pass a bonding bill of no less than $500 million. A “bonding bill” authorizes the state to sell bonds and then pay debt on those bonds in order to finance work on publicly owned buildings, property, and land. Dayton pushed for a $1 billion bonding bill earlier this year but got nowhere with the GOP.

Some lawmakers on both sides have already expressed reservations. ”Let's be clear. Governor did NOT accept’ the June 30 offer. He has simply attached new conditions to the June 30 framework,” tweeted state Sen. Dave Thompson (R).

[MineralMan]

6. Not really. Not everything. It's not great, but there are some things.

He has agreed to accept the budget that was offered, but is insisting that all social issues formerly added to those bills, restrictions on collective bargaining by state workers, and a few other things be removed, leaving only the fiscal portions of the bills. In addition, he is asking for a $500 Million bonding issue for certain construction projects.

So, he has not actually caved completely. If he succeeds in getting this put together, a helluva lot of noxious crap inserted by the Republicans will be gone. Since they have no possibility of getting those things as separate issues past the Governor's veto, it is a concession I think the Republicans may well reject.

We don't know what their response is as of this moment. We should find out shortly, once the Republicans have checked with their bosses.

[neverforget]

12. I'll go out on a limb and say the Republicans tell him to go pound sand.

Why should they accept his latest offer? He's moving in their direction and if they wait a little longer, he'll give in. (That's what I would think if I were negotiating with him anyway)

[Doctor_J]

13. Which is why I'm pretty sure this will be re-enacted at the Fed level

the president's will power is just as "firm" as dayton's

[Ragnarok]

14. That is my fear as well.

We shall see what the next 24 hours brings. Hopefully, our leaders don't go back out on their Statewide blame-storming field trip of again if this one doesn't fly. People were really pissed to see the principals in this contest zipping around the State stumping to their constituents instead of working on the issue. Lock 'em in a room, bring them food and drink, and git 'er done.

[MineralMan]

15. Hard to say, really. The Republicans are getting it from their

constituents, too. Not all Republican legislators in Minnesota are hard-core conservatives, either. There are enough of those to swing this.

One thing I can guarantee, though: The freshman Republicans in the Minnesota legislature are going to lose their seats in 2012. Some Democrats will, too. What the results in 2012 end up being will depend entirely on who gets out the most votes for which party. It is going to be that simple. We must take the legislature back, so Governor Dayton can undo some of this mess with their help.

[pampango]

17. NYT: Gov agree to budget terms proposed by Republican lawmakers...but with several new conditions.

Minnesota Governor Offers Deal to End Shutdown

Mark Dayton, the Democratic governor of Minnesota, announced on Thursday that he would drop demands for a tax increase and agree to budget terms proposed by Republican lawmakers before the state shut down government services two weeks ago, but with several new conditions.

Republican officials had yet to respond to Mr. Dayton’s offer by midday Thursday, and some observers questioned whether Mr. Dayton’s additional conditions might make a deal anything but assured.

In a letter to Republican leaders, who for the first time in decades control both the Senate and House in St. Paul, Mr. Dayton said two weeks without government services had left him certain of one thing about residents: “They want this government shutdown to end,” he wrote. “Now.”

More contentious, though, may be the terms Mr. Dayton now wants: the removal of nonbudget, policy matters (like embryonic stem cell research) from any deal; abandoning plans to make an across-the-board cut of 15 percent of state workers; and support for a bonding bill of at least $500 million “to put people back to work throughout Minnesota.”

[tnlefty]

20. I think he should've waited it out. When the beer totally ran

out then the citizens would be raising hell, along with those who were waiting for license renewal.:toast:

[AverageJoe90]

28. It's like the Gilded Age all over again.

No kidding. We are SCREWED........mismanagement galore, here we come!

[Bjorn Against]

36. Fortunately he is wrong

The deal Dayton agreed to was pretty crappy, but it probably truly is the best he could have gotten. He did not cave completely, he got some important concessions from Republicans who wanted to lay off 15% of the state workforce, ban collective bargaining, ban stem cell research, ban abortion after twenty weeks and implement a voter ID law. Dayton got them to drop all of that from their proposal plus add an additional 500 million for new construction projects. We must also remember that the GOP offer Dayton adopted was not their original offer, it was a "compromise" that spared the most painful cuts but included poison pill language on social issues, by getting them to remove the poison pill language Dayton made it into a real compromise. The bill is not a good bill but I don't think we could have gotten much better and this shut down needs to end so I can't get upset with Dayton over this.

[Doctor_J]

41. Sounds like Obama on the Bush tax cuts

disaster, but we can all smile since it could have been worse.

The bill is not a good bill but I don't think we could have gotten much better and this shut down needs to end so I can't get upset with Dayton over this.

The shutdown has to end by Dayton caving in. That's a perfect attitude for complete disaster at the polls again next time. If you ever wonder why the Dems get bullied every single time, just go back and read your last sentence and it will become crystal clear.

[Bjorn Against]

43. This is nothing like Obama's caves

You do realize that your original post was completely wrong don't you? If not please read up on what this deal actually is because there are many key GOP concessions even beyond what I mentioned.

There is also a big difference between Dayton's compromise and Obama's cave in that Dayton faced a genuine crisis if he did not resolve this shut down. Tens of thousands are unemployed because of the shut down, thousands more have lost child care assistance, do you really think Dayton could keep them in that situation for long? If he were to hold out for months he still would be unlikely to get a better bill than this from the Republicans and thousands of families would have fallen into financial ruin.

I would suggest you learn about what this compromise actually is before you tear down Dayton for it because your OP is completely wrong, Dayton prevented many of the most brutal cuts the GOP had proposed. Dayton did well, it is the Republicans you should be pissed at.

On edit: Just to make things clear I am not trying to suggest this is a good deal, just that it is not the complete cave some are making it out to be. The bill Dayton is going to sign sucks, but it is better than anything the GOP offered previously or was likely to offer in the future. I think Dayton is doing what he needs to do but that does not mean I am happy about the outcome.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. That State is a mess

nt