Maybe Obama is wrong. Maybe the People do know more than the Professional Politicians.

[Karmadillo]

http://people-press.org/2011/06/07/more-blame-wars-than-domestic-spending-or-tax-cuts-for-nations-debt/



More Blame Wars than Domestic Spending or Tax Cuts for Nation's Debt
Jobs Are Top Economic Worry, Deficit Concerns Rise
Released: June 7, 2011
Overview

Far more Americans say that the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has contributed a great deal to the nation’s debt than say that about increased domestic spending or the tax cuts enacted over the past decade.

Six-in-ten (60%) say the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has contributed a great deal to the size of the debt. About four-in-ten (42%) say the same about the condition of the national economy.

By comparison, just 24% say increased spending on domestic programs has contributed greatly to the nation’s debt and even fewer (19%) cite the tax cuts enacted over the past decade. While half or more say spending and the tax cuts contributed at least a fair amount to the debt, 31% say increased domestic spending did little or nothing to increase the debt and 38% say the same about the tax cuts.

The latest national survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, conducted May 25-30 among 1,509 adults, finds widespread opposition to number of proposals aimed at reducing the deficit and the national debt, including reducing funding for the states for education and roads (73% disapprove) and gradually raising the Social Security retirement age (59%).

more...

[tekisui]

1. knr.

[xchrom]

2. recommend

[Ikonoklast]

3. Fine. You are now President, with this Congress.

Get that agenda implemented.

Go.

No amount of "using the bully pulpit" will get one gaoddamn Republican to vote for your agenda.

They will still do whatever the Billionaire Class tells them to, and "The People" can go piss up a rope.

[FreakinDJ]

8. So hopefully they raise the ceiling and STFU

and let the American public speak in the 2012 election

[TheKentuckian]

12. The Congress can allocate the money but they have little power to make the President spend it.

The Commander in Chief can say "Thanks but no thanks", at least to military spending because he can deploy as he sees fit.

He doesn't need votes, he needs to let the money rot that is given to him.

He could also quit asking for so much and stop escalating, allowing creep, and spreading out efforts.

[Karmadillo]

14. One can use the power of the presidency to build support for this agenda. Since

the people want it, they would react pretty favorably to a concerted effort to get it passed. Even if the agenda wasn't passed, the fight would lay the foundation for electoral success in 2012 for candidates who ran on passing the agenda. Obama does double harm by actively fighting for a corporate agenda and by creating no momentum for the success of the People's agenda in the next election.

[Ikonoklast]

15. If 'the people want it', why don't they then VOTE for it?

Instead, every time I see this graph or one like it, reality is that it just might be what people WHO SAT HOME AND DIDN'T VOTE want; whereas, those that did vote got exactly what they wanted.

"Let's punish Obama and not vote in the midterms" was such a winning strategy, and it forced Mr. Obama to deal with the current political reality given him by those that did vote.


Everyone wants to blame Mr.Obama, but no one wants to give him the tools to be successful, either.

"People's Agenda" sounds good, too bad the lazy fucks are waiting for someone else to get it done for them, or are too busy finding someone to blame when it doesn't magically get accomplished without their help.

[Karmadillo]

16. Many thought they WERE voting for it when they voted for Obama, but it turned

out he was more interested in transferring public wealth to banksters and expanding the wars and continuing Bush/Cheny policies. The power of money in politics makes it difficult for politicians who sincerely support the People's agenda to run successfully. Instead, the People get promises of "Hope and Change" and realities of shared suffering that involve attacks on Social Security and Medicare for the People and the extension of the Bush tax cuts and growing defense budgets for the plutocracy. And a system of representative government does, to some degree, envision "the lazy fucks" (nice phrase, you ol' liberal Democrat, you), waiting for someone else, in particular, their elected representative, to get it done for them. Unless you're advocating revolution, which I don't think you're allowed to do on this website.

[Ikonoklast]

17. Sorry, but there are some lazy fucks out there.

They want things to change, but won't volunteer, canvass, donate, or even get motivated enough to get off their asses and get to the precinct and vote.

That plays right into the Right Wing's game plans. They know and depend on that fact to remain in power, They know if the people in this country actually, really woke the fuck up and paid attention that they would be a minority voice in this nations' political scene forever.

Oh, they can vote in on-line polls as to what they *really* want, but the bottom line is this:

Our government is elected by, and therefore run by the wishes of less than 30% of the total eligible voters in this country.

And that is the real shame of this nation.

[Karmadillo]

35. They gave Democrats the Senate in 2006 to end the war. Suddenly,

ending the war didn't seem like such a good idea. They gave the Democrats everything in 2008 based on Hope and Change and and and we got more Bush. It's hard to blame people if they're a little discouraged because they voted for change and got MORE wars and MORE income inequality and MORE attacks on Social Security and Medicare and MORE attempts to privatize public education and it just goes on and on and it's pretty much depressing. The PEW Poll does show that people have a pretty good idea of what needs to be done. If the Democrats would wholeheartedly embrace and follow through on those ideas, they'd be in power for ages.

[whathehell]

37. +10

[WinkyDink]

26. We're kind of not at that cycle, re: elections. But pay attention November 2012.

[Lorien]

20. Only using the bully pulpit to advance GOP talking points

sure as hell hasn't helped.

[emulatorloo]

4. Too bad they voted for those Tea Bagger purists in 2010. Because that crowd

Controls the house.

[treestar]

6. Exactly, if this is the way the voters feel

Why did they put teabaggers in office? This only lends support to the idea that the voters don't understand much.

[Cool Logic]

5. The only thing that surprised me was the response to agriculture subsides.

I would have thought that they would have no more :loveya: to give ADM their likes. :shrug:

[treestar]

7. Why doesn't this influence any Congressional Republican?

Do they care about getting re-elected?

[Demeter]

9. There's No Maybe About It

and the people know they were used, lied to, and robbed.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. And, why aren't the people allowed to watch the negotiators negoitate?

If Obama is telling us that we don't understand, how about letting us see how government works? Out in the open? Let us see how the politicians are deciding the fate of the people using the people's money.

Then we could "understand" the necessity of giving the rich tax-breaks and bailing out corporations.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[msongs]

13. perhaps he could follow public opinion instead of republican opinion lol nt

[ProSense]

18. If they know more

why did they elect and continue to elect Republicans?

Why did really good Democrats lose in 2010 if they know more?

Maybe what they know is based on what dominates the MSM?

[Fire1]

33. +1 n/t

[amborin]

19. K&R

[pipi_k]

21. So if there are that many political geniuses out there...

how come the political stage is so full of idiots?

Where are all the good and decent people who could/should be running for office?

And if people are so damned smart, why do they keep voting in politicians who end up screwing them over?

I don't even want to hear the excuse, "Well, they were lied to".

Smart people can see through the lies. Or, they should be able to, at any rate.


The truth of it is, a whole lot of people think they can do someone else's job better than the person who's doing it...without even knowing all the details of what's involved in doing that job.

[EFerrari]

22. Well, they were lied to. n/t

[Karmadillo]

23. +1

nt

[pipi_k]

24. Like I said...

Truly intelligent people should be able to see past the lies.

And that's not even a valid excuse when it happens over and over and over again.

Has there ever been a politician who delivered everything he promised?


I think the real problem is that people see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe.

Just a few days ago someone posted a song whose lyrics a lot of people seemed to agree with...

Simon And Garfunkel

The Boxer

I am just a poor boy
Though my story's seldom told
I have squandered my resistance
For a pocket full of mumbles such are promises
All lies and jests
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest

Now those words are...what...meaningless?

We're all just victims of hundreds and hundreds of liars?

please...

[WinkyDink]

28. IOW, you are saying we should believe neither the Democrat nor the Republican candidates? I see.

[pipi_k]

30. I didn't say that

in ANY words.

So, no...you don't "see".


What I said was that if people are so much smarter than politicians they should be able to tell who's lying and who isn't.

Surely there have been politicians who have never lied, right? They can't possibly all be dishonest.

And what I did say was that maybe the real problem is that people see and hear and believe what they want to see, hear, and believe.


And last, what I did say was that people can sit on their asses and think they know better than someone else how to do that person's job till they're blue in the face.

IOW, and to use a football analogy, if one knows how to do the Quarterback's job better than he does, then go BE one. Or a coach. Otherwise...well...

I won't say it.

[EFerrari]

29. Of course we are. The whole Senate certified Bush's election

and we all knew damn well he lost. That's a hundred right there. How many people do you suppose knew the CIA had a worldwide torture program while the top brass was lying its brass off in the Taguba hearings? And what about that lovely free money with no strings Wall Street got -- Pelosi et all knew that it was hugely unpopular and they made a big performance out of "holding the banks accountable" except they did no such thing and next thing you know, people are being thrown out of their homes.

Hell yes, there are hundreds of liars.

And nice job berating voters who can't even rely on clean elections, let alone chose their candidates, let alone count on the rule of law or an accountable government.

[pipi_k]

31. Therefore, to say that "the people know better"

isn't true.

Bush was placed in the WH because enough people voted for him to make the numbers that close.

Unless it's only Democrats who know better than the politicians?

And if that's the case, then why aren't all these brilliant Democrats running for office so we don't have idiots in politics?

[EFerrari]

34. Nope. Bush was placed in the White House by an overreaching

and corrupt Supreme Court. It had nothing to do with the fake numbers.

And clearly, being bright is not a requirement to be recruited in this political system which is owned almost entirely by big money.

[WinkyDink]

27. "who end up screwing them over": Is this not the first time SS and Medicare are SERIOUSLY up for

reductions?

[WinkyDink]

25. Alas, knowledge does not = access or influence.

[Raine]

32. ABSOLUTELY ... too bad the pols refuse to listen to the people.

The people keeping telling them to not cut SS/Medicare and to raise taxes on the top ... but NO those in office refuse to listen and do what the people want. A reason many of them will find themselves out of office.

[Starry Messenger]

36. It's not that complicated.

They just like to make it seem that way so they stay employed. Any child knows that if you spend all of your lunch money on Star Wars action figures you won't have money left over for lunch.

[Karmadillo]

38. Maybe you should primary Obama. That would make a great debate line.

nt

[Starry Messenger]

39. Only if you agree to run as my Veep.

Messenger/Karmadillo 2012. :D "Quit spending the fucking lunch money!"