Hard to understand why Democrats are putting such stress on seniors.

[madfloridian]

And they are most certainly. No one in our party, the party which traditionally has supported the elderly, has been reassuring at all. Our party has been the one that showed respect for and provided for the unemployed and needy..... yet no one is out on TV saying to the nervous seniors and soon to be seniors that it will be okay.

That is hard for me to forgive.

It makes it no easier to say that those presently on Social Security and Medicare won't be affected...in fact it makes the generational war worse. Those who are nearing the retirement age are bound to be resentful that they will be affected and those already retired supposedly won't be.

These may or may not be words games, political theater. There is no way for us to know. But it is pretty clear that the right wing is getting just about everything they want. It's like there is nothing left but compromise and bipartisanship....there is little real fighting back left in our leaders.

Dean Baker's words today brought a big amen from me. I appreciate that someone is telling it like it is right now.

The NYT Gets It Wrong on the Deficit Commission, Again

He is angry, just as I am just as many others are...and it shows.

The article also assists President Obama in misrepresenting public opinion about the cuts proposed by the Senate Gang of Six plan. It comments:

"Seeking to sum up the current state of affairs, Mr. Obama said, 'We have a Democratic president and administration that is prepared to sign a tough package that includes both spending cuts and modifications to Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare that would strengthen those systems' and provide for new tax revenues. And, he added, 'we now have a bipartisan group of senators' and a majority of the American people who agree."

That is not true. A majority of the people do not agree to cuts.

President Obama was not in any obvious way "seeking to sum up the current state of affairs." He was misrepresenting the state of affairs, presumably to advance his agenda. There are no public opinion polls that show the majority of the American people support the cuts to Social Security and Medicare in the Gang of Six plan. In fact, there are no polls that show even a majority of Republicans support such cuts. Presumably President Obama is aware of polling data on these issues.

It also would have been helpful to remind readers that President Obama means "cuts" when he refers to "modifications" to Social Security. Some readers may not have read the Gang of Six plan closely enough to realize that it proposes to cut Social Security benefits by an average of close to 6 percent.

I have noticed there is simply no awareness of the harm being done by the manipulation of our elderly by leaders in both parties.

That is the result of years of think tanks pushing "centrist" values which were not centrist at all, but were right wing ideology in disguise.

The elderly have always assumed that the "sacred cows" of Social Security and Medicare would be there for them. Now they are realizing that there is no one saying anything at all reassuring.

And the other day they heard our president tell us to eat our peas. That means they expect us to accept whatever they decide to do to these safety nets on which our elderly depend.

[demodonkey]

1. My 93 year-old mother was crying yesterday.

She's a stroke survivor with an extremely painful broken hip (never repaired due to crappy hospital.) She's worried about her Social Security and that we are "going to have to live under a bridge" because of medical predators that sued her (and me) for a huge hospital bill (that we have never even seen, BTW) that should have been covered by her insurance.

No one of any age should have to live this way, under this stress.

[madfloridian]

3. I am very angry.

And I am angrier still at the defenders of such a policy of cuts in the face of the catering to billionaires.

Tell your mother I apologize that our party is doing this.

[demodonkey]

10. Thanks, but she's actually more worried about the medical predators right now than the Dems...

...damned "non-profit" hospital where CEO makes a million or more sent an ambulance-chaser type of medical predator lawyer (no fee unless he collects?) after us to sue for a huge bill my mother never saw and should not owe. We had no $ to defend the suit and we believe that the predators won't be satisfied until they unjustly take our family farm, which will kill my mother. Talk about your death panels.

Of course she is also worried that if no Social Security comes in next month, many other bills will go unpaid.

[madfloridian]

14. That is terrible.

You have my sympathy. She has a right to be angry. How sad. :hug:

[trud]

31. how about calling the local news

and telling them you're going to be out picketing the hospital.

[demodonkey]

72. A bunch of folks out there standing up for healthcare justice would be incredibly nice.

When predators like these people can lie and run roughshod over honest, hardworking seniors who dedicated their life to helping others like my mother, it is wrong on so many levels. They rely on bullying and fear, which is exactly what is going on with Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid being on the cutting table right now.

[pnwmom]

94. Often an attorney will charge nothing for an initial consultation.

I wish you would try to at least talk to one.

[divvy]

29. It is not "our party" doing this. It is Barak Obama and a handful of others.

Some call it "multi-dimensional chess". It is more commonly known as lying to your own constituents.

[SammyWinstonJack]

33. I blame Obama and why not, this IS his doing. He owns this.

His commission, his 'gang of six'. Vote for more of this? :banghead:

[divvy]

37. History will say the Democrats destroyed Social Security

Thanks Barak. No really, Thanks a lot.

[jtown1123]

39. Yes. Did you read this piece? Sums it up nicely

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2011/07/19/obama-wants-to-cut-medicare-and-social-security-benefits/

[pnwmom]

97. Obama hasn't been trying to slam the seniors -- all the push

has been coming from the Rethugs.

And none of the people criticizing him has a solution -- including you. The Rethugs are willing to trash the economy in order to get what they want. What should Obama do? Put them all in jail for extortion?

[madfloridian]

99. He has been going along to get along with them basically.

He has not taken a stand and has not spoken out.

[Divernan]

131. There are solutions galore - they're just not acceptable to your rich friends.

[pnwmom]

95. Obama's not lying. We only have enough income to cover 55%

of what we need to pay. Payment to bondholders goes first, by law. That doesn't leave enough to fully pay for SS, SSI, Medicare, Medicaid, and soldier's salaries. And the Rethugs know this. This is extortion on their part.

[madfloridian]

98. He is NOT even making an effort to reassure seniors.

And the party leaders are not speaking out effectively on this issue.

I am tired of the spin that is being put on this.

There is money for Social Security. There'd damn well better be!

[pnwmom]

101. What can he say that would be reassuring? And not a lie?

[madfloridian]

104. Wow.

Never mind.

[pnwmom]

108. What? Can't you answer? I didn't think so. n/t

[madfloridian]

110. Read my latest post. I hate to see people take satisfaction...

when senior's lives are being harmed. But you seem to do so. Why is that.

[pnwmom]

115. I think the blame should be put only where it belongs: at the feet of the Rethugs.

That's who you and your mother should be fighting.

[madfloridian]

116. The blame can be spread around this time.

And I never mentioned my mother? She died over 12 years ago thinking Social Security was a sacred thing.

[pnwmom]

118. Sorry, I'd gotten you mixed up with the second poster. n/t

[Cherchez la Femme]

119. Because

the President is way up here,

then the already wealthy, Saint Ronnie of Reagan, then Republicans...




...and the aggregate of seniors are waay down here.

Oh, and kids too. And the poor. And unemployed. And the homeless.
And those who need medicine or to see a doctor or dentist.
And to heat their homes, that is if they have one.

Heck, let's make it easy: Everyone else!



Welcome to the New, Fair 'n Balanced Democratic Party!
Donate today & make sure you vote!


Yep, I'm as bitter as my increased 25 grams of choco rations! :woohoo:

[Divernan]

129. You cannot reason, let alone debate with, the willfully obtuse.

[dflprincess]

107. Social Securty has its own revenue source

It should not be a part of these "negotiations".

The fact that Obama is content to sacrifice it and the people who depend on it for another one of his scams does not reflect well on him at all. It's really time for him to change parties and let us find a Democratic candidate to run in 2012.

[pnwmom]

109. As part of the stimulus package, we made a temporary cut

in the payroll tax, remember?

[dflprincess]

112. Yes and already that's being used as the excuse to cut benefits

just as many of us suspected it would be. The balance in the trust fund should still cover benefits for now. And, even though the trust fund has been raided to benefit the MIC, weren't bonds issued as the IOUs? So aren't Social Security receipients bond holders and so entitled to be paid first?

If Obama wants to threaten to stiff anyone, I suggest he start with the military contractors, rather than scaring some of the more vulnerable members of our society.

[madfloridian]

117. Which cut billions from SS

and which will affect everyone negatively in the long run.

[Divernan]

130. Yes & we told you when that happened it was for the purposes of breaching

the integrity of the SS program which was carefully walled off from the rest of the budget. That's why Obama did it, so he could REALLY slash SS just a little way down the road. And of course he has proposed extending that "temporary cut".
"We" didn't make this cut - this was Obama's very own original idea! He owns it, just as he will own the destruction of this safety net.

[indurancevile]

125. please cite your source for this "55%" figure.

[Divernan]

132. She has none. The number came to her in a dream!

[totodeinhere]

114. Barack Obama as a sitting Democratic president is the titular head of the Democratic Party.

That doesn't mean that every Democrat can be held responsible for Obama's policies, but he is the head of the parity and his actions reflect on the party.

[pnwmom]

93. Why should our party apologize to her for this?

They're telling her the TRUTH. The Rethugs are holding all of us hostage because of THEIR demand to cut Social Security -- or else to trash the economy, which will affect all ages, including people on Social Security.

Since 45% of the budget must be borrowed, there's no way to pay the interest on our debt -- which Obama is required by law to pay, no matter what -- and not to have some impact on the budget for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, SSI, and soldiers on the front lines. Something's got to give. But this isn't the fault of Obama. It's the Rethugs who want to destroy the social welfare system.

[madfloridian]

103. You have fallen for the propaganda.

And apparently you have not been paying attention to the words of the Democrats on Social Security. Oh, that's right...there have not been many words on it. The silence is deafening.

[Divernan]

133. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

[defendandprotect]

8. How could Obama not know -- ?

This is terrible -- and also effects the disabled --

But when was the last time we heard Obama remember the homeless -- 3 million of them!

Or the vast numbers of poor children -- !! ????

ugh!!

[Bluebear]

28. No. Interest.

[madfloridian]

36. ....

I hate to think that, but it seems that way sometimes. Playing hardball with seniors' lives...not a good thing.

[Mimosa]

9. It's about REAL PEOPLE, for God's sake

Demodonkey, you know, as few people seem to, that stress makes older people more ill.

Democrats should have stopped repugs and DINOs from messing with Medicare and medicare advantage.

[madfloridian]

87. Yes, they should have stood up for it.

Instead of playing political games with lives.

[AverageJoe90]

27. And that's why I get mad at all the Repubs & DINOs who wanna CUT these vital services?

Don't they have any empathy?!?!?!

[totodeinhere]

111. This is very upsetting. I feel for you and your mother. I wasn't aware that you could be sued for

your mother's hospital bill. How does that work? You mean that if my parents don't pay their hospital bill I as their son am obligated to pay it? That just doesn't seem fair at all.

[Divernan]

123. You aren't legally liable for any of your parent's debts UNLESS

you have signed an agreement to be held liable. I had to sign such an agreement to get my Mother admitted to a "good" nursing home. If you co-signed for a mortgage or a credit card with your parent, you have joint liability for those debts, as well.
It is the standard practice of collection agencies, using a lawyer & his/her official letterhead, to pursue adult children for the medical debts of their parents. They may not outright lie to you, but strongly imply you have a legal obligation. You don't. They are expert at threatening and intimidation, and will pursue people by phone and mail for months. I have seen them put a "target"'s phone number on autodial and call every hour from 8 am to 8 pm. When my Mom died, I paid all outstanding bills to the nursing home. But when a surgeon tried to triple bill for an operation performed on a Sunday (after he had been paid by Medicare and Mom's secondary insurer for his regular fee), I checked with the insurance company to veryify what had been paid, and flat out refused to pay more. The key thing was, I had never signed off to be responsible for any of my Mom's debts except to the nursing home - NOT to any other care provider.

The only way a debtor could take away property, whether cash or real property like the "family farm" would be if first, they went to court and got a judgment of debt entered against the senior citizen/parent (or, if the parent was deceased, against the estate of the parent) and second, prove that said property was titled, in whole or in part, to the senior citizen/parent. So if you, as an adult child, have a joint checking account, credit card, or savings account; or share title to real estate, or a brokerage account, WITH your parent, those assets would be subject to being seized by the court and turned over to the debtor.

Between that fact and the five year look back period at property transfers before an individual can be accepted into Medicaid, estate planners will tell aging parents/seniors to transfer title of real property and other tangible assets to their heirs/children sooner rather than later. The very wealthy aren't worried about qualifying for Medicaid, but do this to avoid inheritance tax. But it is also a smart thing to do for poorer people without extensive private health care coverage, who may need to qualify for Medicaid (spending down all your assets to a few thousand dollars) without having to sacrifice something like a family farm which you want to pass on to your children and grandchildren.

I don't think very many adult children really know about the difference between Medicare and Medicaid, to begin with, or how Medicare should be backed up by a supplemental private insurance. And a lot of older people want to keep their finances private, even from their own kids.

I strongly suggest adult kids sit down with their parents and discuss medical powers of attorney, regular powers of attorneys, living wills, and advanced directives. You don't have to pay an attorney to draw up these documents. They are available on the web, state by state - make sure you get the ones for the state where your parent(s) live(s). You should have the names & phone numbers of each parent's primary medical care provider and health insurer and a copy of their Medicare and private insurance cards. The fact is that your parent could have an abrupt accident, stroke, heart attack, etc., and you will have to step in and take charge. Without a medical power of attorney, for example, the doctors/hospitals, under the HIPPA privacy regulations, will not even talk to you about your parent's condition, let alone allow you to make any decisions on behalf of your parent.

In fact, every adult (even those in their 20's) should execute a medical power of attorney for themselves, naming another adult - usually a spouse, or another close relative. I pushed my adult children to do this, naming me and one of their sibs in the POA (none of them are married, or it would typically be their spouse). I recently had to have outpatient surgery. My adult daughter drove me to the facility and waited. Without that POA, a copy of which I gave to the person who registered me, my surgeon would not have been able to talk to my daughter.

Maybe you already knew a lot of this, but many people don't.

[totodeinhere]

128. Thank you for that excellent analysis. n/t

[Sapphocrat]

124. My mother just turned 90.

And on her 90th birthday, her boss forcibly "retired" her from her part-time job, which didn't pay much, but was much-needed. Besides the paycheck, it was also what got her up in the morning, gave her the structure of a routine, kept her mind sharp, made her feel useful.

Mom has been through more emergencies than I can count; her most recent surgery was for colon cancer in November -- but at least that hasn't burdened her (yet) with the severity of ongoing symptoms of a failing vascular system (she had a triple bypass a few years ago; she has one stent in her heart and two more in her thighs; she can barely walk more than 20 yards any longer without debilitating pain in her legs; she has a pacemaker), and one "working" kidney ("working" at approximately 15% capacity; she also has a kidney stent).

Her fingers are gnarled like an old tree from arthritis. She takes so many pills every day, and her scrips change so often, I have to refer to the list she keeps in her wallet when the E.R. nurse asks me what she's taking. She needs to drink lots of water, but if she drinks too much, her sodium level drops, and she falls over, shakes uncontrollably, and slurs as if she's just had a stroke. (I think that must have been what caused her to black out about four years ago and fall in a heap on the kitchen floor -- she broke her leg then.)

Some of her meds work against one another. Sometimes, she can't take the stuff for her gout. Sometimes, she gets UTIs bad enough to land her back in the hospital again. Once, she was in ICU for nine days because a UTI crawled up into her internal organs and sent her into full-blown septicemia. I honestly thought I would have to start preparing for her funeral.

The worst time (for me, at least) was one Easter Sunday when she started bleeding uncontrollably (she's on major blood thinners; she bruises like a peach; her hands and arms are usually black with bruises, and sometimes I wonder if some doctor who doesn't know her history will think she's being abused), and I spent the night in the only room they had for her, in the E.R., when they were short-staffed. Every time she needed to use the toilet, I was the one who un-hooked her I.V. and brought it into the bathroom along with her -- which was no big deal, but what I will never forget was trying to jump the river of blood coming out of her, and finally sliding across it, and later, alone at home, cleaning my mother's blood off the soles of my shoes.

She needs dental work she can't afford (and which her insurance doesn't cover); when they put her under for her last surgery, the air tube or whatever it was they stuck down her throat -- they knocked an eyetooth loose, which fell out altogether.

Her insurance is paid up for a while, so that's something -- but it doesn't cover everything, and she relies on Medicare for back-up -- and it's not as if she isn't inundated with a pile of bills for co-pays every month, and there is absolutely nothing left over.

So...

If that goddamned SS check of hers doesn't arrive August 1st... well, there's nothing I can do, other than start selling off more stuff. I haven't had a steady job in more than ten years (thanks, *), and virtually every revenue stream I've been able to carve out in that time has been taken away (thanks, CafePress; thanks, Amazon).

No, no, no, I'm not trying to top you, demodonkey -- I just mean: I hear you. Boy oh boy, do I ever hear you.

And some people think we should sit back and accept either 1) empty fear-mongering that scares the shit out of our parents, (and out of us) and/or 2) the horror that this fear-mongering might not be empty at all.

I just don't understand how anyone could be so heartless about -- or so blissfully, willfully ignorant of -- the crises affecting real people. Maybe such people are all rich, and have young parents, or parents in perfect health -- I don't know.

People are playing politics with our lives. With our parents' lives. I think some people really do just want old folks like my mother dead.

As the song from "Hair" goes:

How can people be so heartless?
How can people be so cruel?
Easy to be hard
Easy to be cold
How can people have no feelings?

. . .

How can people be so heartless
How can they ignore their friends?
Easy to give in
Easy to help out
Especially people
Who care about strangers
Who say they care about social injustice
Do you only care about the bleeding crowd?

[indurancevile]

2. k&r. rammin' it through, rammin' it through, you will eat your peas & you will SMILE when you do it

[madfloridian]

75. Seems like that is their attitude..

Unfortunately.

[rhett o rick]

4. It's not that hard to understand. Most of Congress is corrupt. Not just Repukes. nm

[BeFree]

5. Gotta be a conspiracy.

Obama did not tell us to eat our peas.

He was saying that the republicans were acting like children, whom, at the dinner table, didn't want to eat their peas.

As for old people.... they made their bed, and it is soft an comfortable, but for the most part they also voted for McCain and bush, and reagan.

[ohheckyeah]

11. I'm overwhelmed by your compassion.

:eyes:

[Joe the Revelator]

12. I know that statement is the cliche du jour, but here...

It not even relevant.

[ohheckyeah]

16. I think it's quite relevant to the comment:

As for old people.... they made their bed, and it is soft an comfortable, but for the most part they also voted for McCain and bush, and reagan.

[madfloridian]

17. That is just plain ugly.

[ohheckyeah]

20. Yes, it is but according to the

'revelator' my comment about lack of compassion wasn't relevant.

[BeFree]

18. Tell ya what

They are gonna be taken care of. It is the wee ones that worry me the most. They have a long reach ahead of them, and we old farts are making it tougher for them everyday.

I only have so much compassion, ya see.

But know this: Were it up to me we'd have a Utopian society. A place where the wealth was evenly and equally spread among those who needed it. Meaning all but the strongest.

Still hate me?

[SammyWinstonJack]

34. I'm not

:puke:

[indurancevile]

19. what?

[Blue_In_AK]

25. WHAT???!

I hope this was sarcasm.

[trud]

32. that's crap

I know NO old person who voted Republican. You might as well say, a lot of teenagers text and drive, so they all deserve to be in accidents.

[glinda]

40. My two mid 80's hard core Repub parents both voted for Obama.

[BeFree]

43. Read yer exit polls

Damn near every old person I know, at least 20, votes pubbie.

What? You think younger people elect republicans?

[Dr Fate]

58. Exactly- so we should punish them by agreeing-or pretending to agree with the GOP.

That will show them/us/the GOP.

[BeFree]

83. Punish?

Where the fuck are you people coming up with this shit? Punish? Who said that?

Yeah, Obama gets the same crap thrown at him just 1 million times worse. No wonder he shuns yall and doesn't give a fuck what you say. Geez!

[myrna minx]

35. Disgusting.

[BeFree]

44. Yes

Of course it is. The truth often disgusts people.

[Dr Fate]

59. The important thing is that old people give Obama the perect excuse to side with the GOP.

If voters did not want DEMS to agree with conservatives, then they should not have voted for them.

[russspeakeasy]

67. How would you know ?

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dr Fate]

57. All those old people are from some generation from a loooong time ago.

What do they know, sitting in their comfoprtable beds and failing to be inspired by DEMS constant efforts at compromise and centrism!

Since they ALL voted GOP, there is no point in trying to stand apart from the GOP or otherwise fight to get their votes now.

Us young bucks know that we were never going to get SS anyway-we grew up hearing centrists and the media saying so. The old people need to get hip to this and roll with the new era. (They will be dead soon anyway)

How am I doing?

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[russspeakeasy]

66. "As for old people"? Not too sharp are ya?

[Sapphocrat]

126. You are dead wrong...

...about my FDR-, yellow-dog Democrat parents -- one of whom is dying (you'll be happy to know the other has been dead for 20 years).

Get back to me when you're old, sick, out of options, and scared stiff, and I will be more than happy to return the deep level of compassion you have shown here, in spades.

[defendandprotect]

6. And it's also the DISABLED .... !!!

[madfloridian]

21. I know, and that is awful.

I guess I never thought things like this would happen in our country. I had confidence, now I don't.

[defendandprotect]

22. Reagan did it -- thousands committed suicide -- !!

I always thought this would happen --

When the teacher in the third grade told us about what happened to the

Native American -- that was it -- !! The thought was always there --


WWII never ended -- it was all brought to our doorstep by elites -- rw --

This isn't going to end with Social Security and Medicare --

you know that, right?



:hi:

[murielm99]

7. Yes, the stress is unbearable.

My husband and I planned for our retirement. SS and Medicare were a part of our budgeting.

I spoke to my mother today. She, too, was very upset. She is healthy, but she cares for my father, who has dementia. She does not need any additional stress.

Don't tell me this won't have any impact on my parents. It will.

[Dept of Beer]

13. Sounds like my family...

or ten million more just like them.

[aquart]

15. My 90 year old mother won't buy anything.

And she went to the bank and took out cash to pay her bills just in case.

[defendandprotect]

23. Don't know how Obama is sleeping at night -- but he looks well rested!!

And little are we hearing from him on concerns for our homeless --

3 million or more -- those being impoverished by this depression and a

lack of universal health care --

and new problems Obama has created --



Ugh!

[SammyWinstonJack]

38. Don't know how Obama sleeps at night? Me either. And just what

sacrifices will he and the first family be making? I would love to know, Mr. PResident.

[defendandprotect]

76. +1 --

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trud]

81. Obama has millions

I'm sure he sleeps very well.

[Blue_In_AK]

24. I'm almost 65 and have been getting SS checks for a couple of years.

At this point, I take nothing for granted. Even though I'm already in the "system," I have no faith that they won't jerk it out from under me. You are correct -- there is NOBODY assuring the seniors of anything.

And if they think we can go out at this age and get a job -- even though in perfect health as I am -- they're crazy.

I thought I did everybody a favor by retiring early. Somebody else younger can be a legal secretary (maybe even TWO somebodies -- I was that good :evilgrin: ), and I'm taking less money than I would have had I waited until 67 or whatever it is to retire.

[madfloridian]

30. I really have no faith about it either.

I don't understand why they think this kind of politicking would inspire confidence in the president and the congressional Democrats? Maybe they are listening to the wrong people.

[Raksha]

122. I'm in the same situation you are. I'm a widow collecting my husband's Social Security,

as I've been doing for several years now. I'm 65 now and I'm quite frankly scared to death, afraid it will be jerked right out from under me in the next "compromise." It seems the best I can hope for is that it won't be cut TOO much--and it isn't enough to live on now.

[999998th word]

26. Republicans just don't give a shit...about any of us

and the New Democrats =lip service.
Some are still decent,and I will still vote,but 'eat our peas'.I've BEEN eating peas.It's someone elses turn.

[glinda]

41. It is called mercy killings without them having to feel guilty seeing it firsthand.

[KoKo]

42. I don't know why either...and now 90 somethings in wheelchairs are being groped

prodded and subjected to terrible invasion of their privacy and dignity. :-(

[Dr Fate]

45. Easier to pick on seniors than to go after the Industrial Military Complex and foreign corporations.

Such brave, nmoral fighters they are.

[felix_numinous]

51. +10000

Ding ding ding you are the winner! No one seems strong enough to dismantle the Frankensteins that are sucking this country dry. First up--the most vulnerable--the sick and elderly. I swear, this is it!

[Dr Fate]

54. Worked for the Nazis.

Well, at least for a decade, until they failed.

Pitting generation against generation, making old people and disabled poeple out to be burdens on society.

All so they could spend more money & resources towards their war machine.

That is where this is going, unless someone stops it.

DEMS?

[felix_numinous]

73. None dare call it

the neo con final solution--but what else would you call their eugenics ideals that pour money into laws and candidates with a hatred of gays and all minorities, who wish to turn women into obedient breeders, the drug war, war against pacifists, their propaganda programs, their reeducation programs and revisionism of American history, demonizing peaceful religions--and the systematic removal of all human, worker and healthcare rights in our country??? Why are often violent tea partiers with neo nazi values allowed a voice--why were they artificially created and given validation and publicity when their numbers are so low, compared with millions of demonstrators who want peace and equal rights?

Now they have drones to kill whole (brown) families on the other side of the world, while stealing their resources, just so they can make more killing machines. They entice our youth to work for them based on lies.

I am not against President Obama, he is a decent man but I believe he is not powerful enough to go further against the MIC/PIC. He cannot go against these people, or he would be put out of office, or worse. They have been in power for many decades.

I think this is up to Americans to unite against this domestic threat. We have to keep Democratic Party and Progressives in power, but we also have to unite this country against the corporatist/neo cons and work to help everyone, including Republicans, open their eyes--that WE are not their enemy.

We call their candidates "batshit crazy' but these are only scapegoats to steal our attention from the real game going on . They are systematically changing this country from within--and it will take nearly the whole population to defeat them.

[mistertrickster]

46. "Manufacturing Consent" Noam Chomsky . . . nt

[Doctor_J]

47. They're killing the party, plain and simple

It's a disgrace

[Doctor_J]

49. Ryan handed the Dems next year's election on a platter

the president and the rest of the DINOS gave it back

[Fuddnik]

55. Hey Ma,

I voted for the lesser of two evils, and all I got was evil. Not even a t-shirt.

[QC]

61. Worse--the president threw Ryan and the GOP a lifeline.

The electorate was ready to hang them for threatening Social Security, but not anymore.

It was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, blown. That's starting to be a pattern with this administration.

[madfloridian]

70. Yes, it seems they did that.

They are listening to the wrong people in plotting their strategy....time for change right now.

[Grrrfun]

86. exactly right

The president elect also did his best to reinvigorate the gop after their 2008 election defeat. He left pretty much every bush appointee in power and immediately cranked up the TSA, the drug war and the drone war..

He went on bill o'liely's show and reaffirmed the validity of faux news. They should have been thrown out of the WH press-room entirely..


If he succeeds in harming SS and Medicare he may well be the most hated president in history. Shrub was at least up front about his lust for power and destruction. Our current oval office warmer is perhaps the sneakiest most deceptive person to hold that post ever.. Nixon is looking like Mary freakin Poppins by comparison..

He's cold, he's deceptive, he's a warmonger... Sounds like a whole different animal than a Democrat doesn't he?

[Greybnk48]

50. My BIL is 55, developmentally disabled and on Medicaid.

He just went through a very stressful winter when Scott Walker threatened to cut funding to our town in such a way that we would lose our bus service. So far we haven't. This is my BIL's lifeline since most of the year it's cold as hell here in WI. I don't think he knows of the threat to his healthcare. He has high blood pressure, diabetes and other issues related to a serious birth defect. He wouldn't last long without his meds and close monitoring. Maybe that's the plan.

[madfloridian]

52. Florida is cutting so many services for Medicaid...we aren't aware of all of them yet.

Trying to keep up with what the Rick Scott Republicans are cutting is impossible. It's like a big circus.

[Greybnk48]

60. People like my BIL are completely vulnerable to the

vagaries of these sociopathic fucks like Rick Scott and Scott Walker. It's revolting and there will be a backlash, I believe. Hang in there madfloridian!

[blkmusclmachine]

53. The Democratic Party was hi-jacked:

That's the only explanation. No real Democrat would do what this Democratic Party is doing. That's why they call themselves the "New Democrats."

[elehhhhna]

90. obama is the manchurian candidiate, after all

a trojan horse.

[DailyGrind51]

56. Senior citizens don't make huge contributions, like the Koch Brothers!

[madfloridian]

69. Good point. They are "ideologically freed" from worrying about seniors.

It is getting to be all about money now, even in the field of education. I keep remembering when a founder of the DLC told us their true goals.

Remember the words of Simon Rosenberg who co-founded the DLC

"Simon Rosenberg, the former field director for the DLC who directs the New Democrat Network, a spin-off political action committee, says, "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party. In that way," he adds, "they are ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."

[FreeStateDemocrat]

80. But they do vote and it is a swing vote that Obama can't blow off.

Big money will not win it for it only allows to compete for the votes. In the end the Koch boys don't have a voting block. Social Security recipients number over 60,000,000 people this could become a problem for any politician who want to scare old people who live very simple lives with their shrinking Social Security check, no cola for two years.

[blindpig]

62. The Democratic Party has a long history....

it was long the party of slavery. After that the party of the South and urban areas with large immigrant populations. It had no real ideology except being not Republican. When Hoover utterly failed to bring any relief to an ever more restive people the Democratic Party had it's shot and reluctantly adopted expedients borrowed from the socialists who supported the Democrats for this reason. These were expedients, not any bedrock statement of the party's purpose, though decades of politicking gave that impression. In the intervening time the party has steadily retreated from those policies, how could Taft-Hartley stand for all of these years otherwise? The Great Society was also such an expedient, the response to the Civil Rights Movement and urban unrest.

The reasons for those expedients are no longer apparent to the ruling class, unions are weak or compromised, the police state is stronger than ever, the alternative is seemingly defeated. And so there is agreement that they be dismantled, we call that 'bipartisanship'.

The Democratic Party was the 'party of Roosevelt' for but a little while and has been trading on that cred ever since, quite dishonestly. Examined on a historical basis what's happening now should come as no great surprise.

What this country needs is Reds.

[Dappleganger]

63. Yes, democratic politicians are doing this...

we need to own the damage they are doing to our country by communicating with them while they are in office, voting the neo-liberals out of office and doing recalls when necessary. If we don't, then we have allowed the party to completely fail and there will be no democratic principles left to defend.

[russspeakeasy]

65. Mr. President...go look for your walking shoes.

Someone will have to take my Obama canvassing route. If I couldn't see you, I would think it was Tom Pawlenty fighting for me and my kind.

[madfloridian]

68. Here are his walking shoes.

[russspeakeasy]

74. Thanks for the picture...worth a 1000 plus.

[CrispyQ]

105. I'd like to take one of my walkin' shoes & throw it at him.

[Jakes Progress]

71. It's not Democrats. It's the New Democrats. The NeoDems.

[chill_wind]

92. And Warner is the designated pitcher.

Sen. Warner to brief New Dems in House on Gang of Six plan

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1531078

[DesertFlower]

77. i'm almost 70. i feel betrayed.

[madfloridian]

88. It is a betrayal.

That is frankly what it is.

[DeSwiss]

78. K&R

- If they're not crazy and if they're not stupid, then all that remains is that what they're doing is intentional.

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." ~Sherlock Holmes, The Sign of Four

[Le Taz Hot]

79. My 89-year-old aunt is terrifed.

She keeps saying, "Obama said we might not get our checks next month. What am I going to do?" I try to reassure her but she's from the Depression Era and she is sees all the closed businesses in town and it terrifies her -- Mission Accomplished, assholes!

[madfloridian]

85. That is just sad. We always trusted our government in such things.

Now we can't. They don't even seem aware of the pain they are causing the elderly and disabled...that or they just don't care.

[Mimosa]

91. How dare anybody -Dem or Repug- play with senior's LIVES?

This is making me sick. No matter who is doing it.

[Lifelong Protester]

82. I want a refund. A refund of every dollar I sent his campaign.

Touch SS and Medicare/Medicaid in the ways that are being reported in the NYT today, and I will not vote for the man.

I don't agree AT ALL with putting seniors through all this mental torture, especially so the fat cats can be given more FAT. It's NUTS!

What the hell has this country become? I ask you? When did DEMOCRATS become the party to destroy the social contract?

So where is the next large ex-pat community starting up. I'm there.

[Pooka Fey]

84. I will never forgive them for this.

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MorganaSeawalker]

89. We are so screwed.

[sarcasmo]

96. I fear you are correct.

[piratefish08]

100. they exist in a different world than we do.

we are well and truly fucked.

[madfloridian]

106. I think so.

Their world does not touch ours, there appears to be no connection to us.

[mmonk]

113. They thought they saw the winning formula in Reagan.

So those that thought it was the winning formula copied it and declared themselves the policy shop for the party. In their eyes, their ideas were confirmed in their minds with Clinton's victory. They never changed course, even given the obvious failures of deregulation and supply side political principles of "smaller" government. It's all about political calculation and winning and in their minds, this is it. I think the party leaders are in for a rude awakening.

[soryang]

120. "Eat your peas..." children, that is what is implied

Children don't get a say in the punishment to be meted out. It may or may not be that current recipients won't be affected, the "children" aren't being told what mommy and daddy are going to do to them. But they probably are because the cuts are being kept secret by the "transparent administration" Obama promised. What they want to deliver is a fait accompli.

But as a matter of logic for the cuts to affect fiscal matters in the next "decade," people in the 55 to 65 year old groups have to be affected.

Under the Coburn proposals, the medicare cuts would be devasting to 65 and 66 year olds. The fair market value of health insurance comparable to medicare for a couple in this age bracket is in excess of thirty thousand dollars for two years. If the couple is not born in the same year then they have a potentially much bigger problem. However once up into the five figure area for a retired couple the number just becomes academic because it is unacheivable.

How is that "shared sacrifice?" That is a major blow to someone expecting to retire. Add the cost of not being able to retire because you need to pay for that insurance, or rather get an employer to pay.

People are also underestimating the impact of the huge medicaid cuts. Many middle class people in nursing homes have run out their medicare coverages, have no resources left and eventually end up on medicaid. This is how the programs are designed. So saying current recipients won't be affected is simply a misrepresentation to fool the uninformed. These changes are going to be draconian and have an almost immediate impact.

They never speak in specifics, only the most vague generalities. How do you like that "modification" grandma?

[sendero]

127. Obama is busy.

.... DESTROYING the Democratic brand. When he gets done Dems will be considered as standing for NOTHING and there will be no reason to vote for them AT ALL.