Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Russia declares 'era of Soyuz' after shuttle

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
July16th-20th Donating Member (217 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:05 AM
Original message
Russia declares 'era of Soyuz' after shuttle
Source: Yahoo News

Moscow on Thursday declared it is now "the era of the Soyuz" after the US shuttle's last flight left the Russian system as the sole means for delivering astronauts to the International Space Station.

Far less glamorous than the horizontal-landing winged shuttle, the principle of Russia's Soyuz rocket and capsule system for sending humans into space has changed little since Yuri Gagarin became the first man in orbit in 1961.

But after the successful landing of the US Space Shuttle Atlantis Thursday drew the curtain on the 30-year US space shuttle programme, it is now the only vehicle which can propel astronauts towards the ISS.

"From today, the era of the Soyuz has started in manned space flight, the era of reliability," the Russian space agency Roskosmos said in a statement.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/russia-declares-era-soyuz-shuttle-133921047.html



That last sentence would make me laugh out loud if I weren't so angry and disgusted. I've spoken to several of our people who've ridden on the "reliable" Soyuz. If you wanna go into space, you'd be safer attaching fireworks to your ass and hoping for the best!

:argh::puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. Is it really unsafe?
Perhaps we just don't hear about it, but it seems that in total numbers, and definitely percentage-wise, the space shuttle was far more dangerous than the soyuz.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. zero injuries, and no malfunctions since 1983.
yes that is indeed a horrible safety record.


The Russian safety record with manned launches over the past 20 years is the best in the world. There were two accidents in 1975 in 1983. In both cases, there was no loss to life or injury to humans and the crew was saved by state-of-the-art emergency systems. Poleshuk added, "Since then, in the past 20 years, these problems have been identified and corrected using the latest technology and the safety record for manned launches has been perfect since then. This is why our ISS partners and the world depends upon and relies upon Russia to bring a new manned Soyuz to the ISS as the safety mechanism or "escape vehicle" every six months."
http://spaceref.eu/news/viewpr.html?pid=9566http://spaceref.eu/news/viewpr.html?pid=9566
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. wow - actually their soyuz program has been rather open
but whatever, it must really really hurt that we have nothing and they have the only viable manned space program left standing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. It's slightly less unsafe than the Shuttle was.
Edited on Fri Jul-22-11 06:14 AM by sofa king
They compare very favorably.

Both had 2 fatal missions, both had their first fatal mission in their fifth year, both have had numerous near-accidents and dangerous events. Shuttle killed 14 people while Soyuz only killed four. Soyuz has a longer service life, but has flown about 20 fewer missions.

Soyuz has a launch escape system which was successfully used at least once, a version of which might have saved the Challenger crew (it was actually designed for one, which is why at least some of the Challenger crew survived the explosion long enough to open some emergency lockers during their nine-mile fall into the sea). William Proxmire, among others, led the Congressional charge to remove both that system and fly-around rockets for landing. Having killed and injured a few of their own cosmonauts after reentry by failing parachutes, that system is now highly redundant on Soyuz, while the Shuttle had one chance and one only to land, with no redundancy at all (again, thanks to Congress).

Soyuz relies on inexpensive and highly reliable heat shields for reentry, while the Orbiter relied on tiles. The loss of those tiles was a primary concern for NASA for the entire life of the Shuttle, for obvious reasons since the loss of just a few of them on a critical leading edge killed the Columbia crew.

Other considerations do not compare so well. The Shuttle's heavy-lift capability versatility once aloft was beyond comparison to Soyuz. On the other hand, there is almost always one or two Soyuz systems ready to launch within a month or so, while turnaround time for the Shuttle fleet rarely approached that status. The reusability of the Shuttle is not even worthy of discussion, as that was a marketing scam designed to snooker Members of Congress into believing it would make the Orbiter cheaper. Instead, it wound up making it much more expensive, and the hard working parts on it were not actually reusable.

However, having said all that, I need to point out that I'm not a rocket scientist, but my father is. One day, I took him to the Air and Space museum to look at a bunch of Soviet manned space hardware. He wandered around, mouth agape, amazed at what the Soviets were getting away with. "Look at the lines going into that goddamned fuel tank--they're built out of plumbing parts," I remember him saying, then he took me over to the Skylab mock-up to show me how on American systems, every weld is machined flush, every wire is a direct connection with no splices, every metal-on-metal interface is carefully calculated so that they expand at the same or similar rates under heat load, and so on.

The problem, of course, is all that effort to build a launch system that was reliable out to "four nines," or 99.99%, was negated by building into the Shuttle system a number of fundamental flaws that could never be corrected enough to become that reliable.

Edit: Those of you who note an apparent contradiction between what I said and what Warren said above should know that I've counted Soyuz 1 and 11, both of which were fatal accidents using early Soyuz craft before they were redesigned. After the redesign, as Warren notes, Soyuz's reliability is amazingly high for such a no-frills operation.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Using the Shuttle to place satellites in orbit was folly
I noticed that during the Shuttle program, NASA was still using expendable Titan rockets to place heavy satellites in orbit, or to bring deep space probes and their big booster rockets up to orbit.

The Shuttle had a natural role to bring humans to the Space Station or to the Hubble space telescope to service the telescope.
Nice essay, sofa king :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blandocyte Donating Member (830 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks for that
informative and colorful post! Love the stuff about your dad's comments at the museum. Great read!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. It's safer than the shuttle. Some of us are having a little trouble transitioning out of the
Cold War mindset.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC