The rumors were true

[neverforget]

Obama just said that $650 billion in cuts to Medicare and SS were in the deal. So much for unnamed sources. This came from the President's own mouth.

I like the story he told of receiving letters from people who are cutting back and not being able to eat at the end of the month and how that awful it would be if we defaulted because they wouldn't get their checks. Yes it would be awful and I agree 100% with the President on that.

BUT, how does cutting $650 billion from the safety going to help that situation if they are already living paycheck to paycheck? :shrug:

Let me say this: I am happy to see some fire in the belly from the President and using the bully pulpit.

[Poll_Blind]

1. Yep. Said it on national tv, no ifs ands or buts.

PB

[TheWraith]

13. And he said RECIPIENTS WOULD NOT BE IMPACTED.

Please get the facts right.

[Poll_Blind]

No, he alleged that CURRENT recipients would not be impacted.

Not a surprising omission from you.

PB

[Luminous Animal]

30. It is amazing how people will ignore that slight of hand.

[KittyWampus]

71. You are the one ignoring the FACT Obama never specified how those cuts would occur.

You can save money in Medicare many ways.

Automating a lot of information.
Bargaining drug prices.

For instance.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kurmudgeon]

110. And ignore the fact that even THAT wasn't enough for the GOP.

[Melinda]

Not an allegation, but an outright statement of fact. TY for setting

that one straight. Your voice is appreciated by many here.

:)
Melinda

[KittyWampus]

69. Did he say he was cutting actual benefits or waste? Hmmm?

Because you can save a lot of money from Medicare by bargaining drug prices.

[PATRICK]

82. This is not comforting

Considering the past favors shown to the medical profiteering establishment. And paring down waste, prices or abuses would drive more doctors out of the program in various ways. Nobody wants to be the fall guy. I expect something ugly but we have to admit we don't know exactly what. Astute accounting and reform could save a lot but at this scale it should have a detrimental impact somewhere instead of the best option of BUILDING up a program all pay into a health care solution for all. ALL have to pay extra somewhere for the deficiencies fiscal conservatives will create in the net. Only the biggest profiteers will pay substantially less for their useless and protected private enterprise of denying care.

[comtec]

100. There is no wa in hell the gop will allow that

Medicare part C and D came about BECAUSE the gop specifically forbade medicare from bargaining with big pharma.
I dont know what your taking, but can I have some?

I want to life in your fantasy world where obama shits gold and farts glitter, because it has to be a far better one than the REALITY THE REST OF US LIVE IN!

[SOS]

118. Part D was written by Big Pharma lawyers

It is expressly forbidden, by law, to negotiate prices.
The MMA of 2003 would have to revised by Congress.

Big Pharma would never allow their employees (Congress) to do that.

[sulphurdunn]

121. Waste

Obama's health reform plan specifically excludes volume price negotiations with the pharmaceutical industry for Medicare. If he has any interest in waste and fraud he should start at the Pentagon and work his way towards Wall Street.

[BulletproofLandshark]

123. That's it, just keep moving those goalposts back. n/t

[Muskypundit]

125. Its funny....

Because the narrative from the obamabots two days ago was "Obama would never cut from medicare and social security, thats just a bunch of alarmist hype." Now we learn Obama was willing to cut from them and now the narrative is.... what we see here. Its ok because its just streamlining the wasteful system. Some people are willing to follow Obama off the right wing cliff. Cult of personality much?

[trud]

128. the fact that we're trying to guess what he meant

Says a lot about how he presents this to the public,

[SharonAnn]

77. So I'm OK, but my siblings and children are screwed?

Face it. Everyone will get cuts. It just depends on where or how the changes are implmented.

And, frankly, I don't believe in exempting one group of citizens from the "shared pain".

Divide and conquer. That's what Republicans do.

[sad sally]

59. Current recipients have been impacted - no COLA's for two years.

Oh yeah, I forgot, health insurance, car insurance, house insurance, groceries, utilities - no inflation in any of these items.

[anarch]

75. that's b/c the costs of those basic items never increase

not even slightly. kind of like how all those people that gave up trying to find work aren't really "unemployed" anymore.

la di da, la di do


do I even need a thing?

[daleanime]

132. Not for me....

but considering the problem some of us are having reading between the lines, you might want to use one just in case.

[Samantha]

90. What happened to people over 55 would not be impacted?

just wondering

[Dept of Beer]

91. Wraiths generally don't contain much substance.

[caseymoz]

96. Facts? How could they not be impacted?

You mean that SS and Medicaid have $650 billion lying around that is not connected to what the recipients get or how effectively they get it? Really, that's $2,200 for every man, woman and child in the US. How could a cut like that not effect recipients?

I'm not saying he lied, I'm just saying he's at least making that claim without looking too close.

Maybe he means current recipients would not be impacted-- too much. I'm skeptical even of that, but this is the same way companies and the government boondoggled people out of pension programs. Basically, the divided current recipients from future ones and trusted the former to stab the latter in the back.

And I'll bring up the question: WTF does Social Security, or its purported "insolvency" have to do with the deficit?

Medicaid might be something else, but Social Security cuts should not even be in this debate.

With this demand, the wealthy are still not asked to pay any share of the "balanced budget" they insist is so damn important, now.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Hell, he's bragging about the sell out.

[EFerrari]

32. And we're supposed to construe this game of Elite Chicken as a win.

LOL

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Well, we're only the wet pawns in this idiotic pissing contest.

[Poll_Blind]

39. +1

PB

[Altoid_Cyclist]

97. +1 That's about the best analogy that could be applied to this farce.

Meanwhile, a lot of people are nervous about what the future holds in store for them and their families.

However, since we're not the top 1%, our fears are dismissed or just ignored.

This debacle isn't a game of poker or even a game of multi level chess. It's a disgrace and shows how little respect the average citizen is accorded by our elected representatives.

[Poll_Blind]

38. Yup. And he is well-aware of how cooked his goose is for "going there".

PB

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Yes, yes they were

now what this man needs to do is look at the 14th amendment... or this manufactured crisis will be a very real crisis.

[robinlynne]

5. Are you talking about corporate personhood here?

[Ghost Dog]

52. You mean , the debt ceiling as such could be considered unconstitutional,

right, Nadin?

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. Yes

[FLAprogressive]

3. YOU APOLOGIZE RIGHT NOW.....

...oh wait

[Palmer Eldritch]

11. We're used to not getting apologies from people when Obama proves them wrong.

They can't stand it.
It really gets under their skin.

[FLAprogressive]

18. Obama never apologizes when he sells out.

[Frisbee]

89. In his defense...

if he did, he probably wouldn't have time for much else.

[Forkboy]

20. I know. When they were wrong about Gitmo, HRC, illegal wiretapping and the wars...

...those bastards should apologize RIGHT FUCKING NOW!

Oh wait...

Would you care to apologize about those, or would that get under your skin?

[tridim]

4. NOT cuts to benefits.

Listen.

[Cali_Democrat]

6. LOL.

Billions in cuts to strengthen Medicare and Social Security! :rofl:

[tridim]

8. So you didn't listen to what he said.

Not my problem.

[Luminous Animal]

12. Are you serious? It is impossible to remove 650 billion from a program's budget

cutting something.

[TheWraith]

22. $650 billion over 10 years, which makes it less than 3% of the relevant budgets.

More than possible to do by cutting back on waste, fraud, and abuse.

[BlueCheese]

25. The mythical waste, fraud, and abuse.

Why aren't we doing that anyway, budget agreement or not?

[Luminous Animal]

29. Yes. As if they haven't been cutting back on waste, fraud, and abuse for decades.

By the way, what does SS and Medicare have to do with the budget?

[CoffeeCat]

81. You're going to spin $650 billion in Soc Sec

...cuts as a positive thing?

They shouldn't even be TOUCHING ONE PENNY of Social Security! It's not
theirs to touch. That is our money.

So sickening that a Democratic president is doing this and now we've got
Democrats justifying this slovenly, cowardly, sick move.

[Dept of Beer]

92. Appears that way.

Marching orders are apparently in.

[fascisthunter]

94. oh, and they are out in full force

[Flubadubya]

106. or "full farce",,,

:rofl:

[fascisthunter]

93. yeah... it's kind of nuts actually

to think one could spin this as a good thing. Purely political and irrational without any basis in reality. No wonder our party is behaving the way it has been and how the right wing has gained so much.

[Hawkowl]

129. Burn the village to save it.

Obama is just proving to be more Orwellian than Bush ever was.

[Palmer Eldritch]

15. That's the problem. They listen, but they don't hear.

[piratefish08]

51. NOT! except for $650 billion. other than that, NOT!

[PA Democrat]

87. I did go back and listen again. He said no cuts to CURRENT recipients.

No such assurance to future recipients.

Here is the exact quote:

"Essentially what we had offered Speaker Boehner was over a trillion dollars in cuts to discretionary spending, both domestic and defense. We then offered an additional $650 billion in cuts to entitlement programs — Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. We believed that it was possible to shape those in a way that preserved the integrity of the system, made them available for the next generation, and did not affect current beneficiaries in an adverse way."

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/07/22/transcript-of-obamas-news-conference-on-the-debt-ceiling/

[Liberalynn]

108. and we all know how politicians like to play with vocabulary

his version of " in an adverse way" might be a looser interpretation than say someone actually on SS and Medicare.

[anamandujano]

112. Just working my way through the thread, finally posted and saw

that you picked up on the word play also. Current recipients can and will be affected as long as it's not thought to be "adverse" by the powers that be.

In other words, the sentence has no meaning in the real world.

[LarryNM]

119. Exactly, Typical Distortion n/t

[anamandujano]

111. The qualifier "in an adverse way" makes one wonder

who is going to define "adverse way."

Then one begins to think about who is defining everything these days.

[kelly1mm]

7. For some it won't be a 'real cut' unless Obama comes and takes the money out of Granny's wallet. nt

[Palmer Eldritch]

9. He just won and all you can talk about is what you speculated about. Wrongly as it turns out.

Fucking sad.

[neverforget]

17. uh what? maybe you need to listen to what the President said

$650 billion in cuts to SS and Medicare. the rumors of cuts to SS and Medicare were true and that's Fucking Sad.

[mike_c]

62. AND social security has not added one dime to the debt....

It has consistently run a surplus for generations. I'm furious that Obama would offer cuts to SS-- it's one of the most successful government programs ever. Republican objections to SS are purely ideological-- there is no factual basis for any of the rhetoric about needing to cut SS to "get our fiscal house in order." Hearing Obama parroting that canard was disgusting.

I do think that he believes he's being politically astute by offering up something the republicans have historically salivated over, but the damage he would do to the poor, elderly, and ill is awful-- and for NO coherent reason other than scoring ideological points with republicans.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[neverforget]

74. I'm a "kneejerk hater" because I don't agree with the President.

He's going to find $650 billion in automating the medical system? :rofl:

[neverforget]

76. One other thing, I'm a Democrat and the President is a Democrat.

I disagree with what he is doing and I'll voice my opinion anyway I want too. You have no right to call me or anyone else who disagrees with the President as a knee jerk hater just because we disagree with him and you. You are not the arbiter of what opinion can or cannot be held. You will not silence me with your name calling or that of anyone else. Obama told us to hold his feet to the fire and we are doing that. If you don't like it, that's too bad. You need to get a thicker skin.

[EFerrari]

21. Nope. The poster points out correctly what he put on the table. n/t

[kelly1mm]

23. Won what? Has the debt limit been raised? What exactly has he won today?

[chill_wind]

40. Good question. We do this once a week

in the meantime. "He got really REALLY mad!!"

[russspeakeasy]

99. He pouted loudly.

[Leontius]

48. Another day of praise by his loyal worshipers.

[Marr]

26. Are you trying to use a Jedi mind trick or something?

That response was bizarre.

[anamandujano]

114. He's a shallow platitudinizer.

Sorry for being redundant.

[tavalon]

95. So, you suppose he wasn't interested in a second term.?

Because, if this the deal, he's a one termer.

[mother earth]

10. Let them eat cake?

[Broderick]

14. WHY THE FRICK

did Democrats sit on their heels to Bush's plans and negotiate over that as a starting point, and years later we sit and negotiate again off a Republican plan with a Democratic President that has NO plan to start his own negotiations over? Boehner walks out bolstered by faux poll readings, and once again we negotiate from a Republican starting point.....

[gateley]

16. We don't know what areas. Somebody suggested fraud?

Don't know what areas COULD be whittled down, but again, he needs to be more precise. Although today I think he's doing pretty damn good. I much prefer it when he speaks extemporaneously.

[EFerrari]

24. Yes, we do know "what areas" because we've gotten reliable reports

from Bernie Sanders, from CEPR and from Nancy Pelosi.

[gateley]

31. I heard Nancy Pelosi say there would be no cuts to recipients --

but she may have revised it since I heard that.

Did they say that Obama had that in his sights, or just that they wouldn't support it if he did?

My head is spinning, it's hard to keep up.

And my first reaction to "reliable" reports made me roll my eyes, then I saw you named Sanders and Pelosi, and those are two people who I agree are reliable.

[EFerrari]

35. Folks who keep claiming we don't know anything

despite the reports we do have from honest actors do a disservice to DU.

CEPR on Gang of Six Plan
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/press-releases/press-releases/statement-on-the-gang-of-six-plan

CEPR on Chained CPI (This is what Nancy refused. My be is she didn't do that out of the blue
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/press-releases/press-releases/statement-on-using-the-chained-cpi-for-social-security-cost-of-living-adjustments

[gateley]

53. But as we learned today, there isn't a deal. We went off on all

the earlier deals we thought were going to be IT. I have to agree with those who say we won't know until we know. Until the deal lands in the House for a vote. Even then, who knows how it will go?

I have to admit, I was surprised at what transpired today. I assumed it would be the Gang of Six (although I'd heard that individual Congresspeople weren't too enthralled with it). This really has to be resolved (duh). :crazy:

[Hydra]

60. I'm going to say this as politely as I can

Are you REALLY defending this because he has a (D) after his name????

$650+ Billion in cuts to programs that are not part of the deficit, after we gave away the Bush tax cut extension? Smelling no fishiness here?

[gateley]

63. That's okay, I understand my position is unfathomable to some.

I'm not defending him because of the D, I've criticized him plenty and the D didn't stop me.

It's just my opinion. I may be wrong, wouldn't be the first time, but unlike some here, I don't try to convince people to see it my way.

[Hydra]

65. Who's convincing you?

We had the cuts laid out today. I just read how he had the cuts planned in 2009. he advocated for the Bush Tax cut extension that would have covered this "shortfall."

If you can still defend all of that, by all means.

[gateley]

66. Nobody convinces me of anything. I make up my own mind.

And I don't need to defend my opinion to anyone, but thanks for the offer.

[ZombieHorde]

104. Almost everything we do is because we were told/convinced to do it.

Wear clothes, poop in the toilet, brush our teeth, use currency, etc.

[julian09]

115. The Bush tax extension was the result of

unemployment extension and middle class tax cuts being held hostage; no Bush extension meant no middle class extension or unemployment extension.
Same situation we are in now, no cuts to debt means no raising debt ceiling and default. The Gop "tea party" branch of Alquida ready to cause more financial damage to the world than 911 did. Unbelievable, un american, unpatriotic .
Had Obama not extended Bush tax cuts, for upper one percent thus not extending middle class tax cuts, Obama would have been lambasted for raising taxes.
$650 billion for three programs over ten years compared to the actual outlay that will be spent on those programs is a small percentage. That could be reduced cost for drugs, taking one xray instead of three for same purpose, same for MRI, that have to be read buy technicians.

[slipslidingaway]

27. Gang of 6 outline called for 500 billion and they offered 650 billion ...

although he did say without affecting 'current beneficiaries.'

[neverforget]

37. just screwing future beneficiaries which is cool with some

[slipslidingaway]

42. Unfortunately that is the attitude of some people :( n/t

[Lorien]

28. Just like when he they the unemployed hostage over the Bush tax breaks for the

rich. One has NOTHING to do with the other, and Obama is too weak or too corrupt to point this simple truth out. Once again, he could DESTROY THE GOP with this issue, but he CHOOSES not to!

[Marr]

34. Brilliant rope-a-dope!

You see, by endorsing the conservative philosophy and all of their phony talking points, Obama exposes them or something like that! Now all that's left is to actually hand them all of the money and our victory will be complete! What a genius!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. A Glorious Victory! The people should be grateful for being offered up as pawns in the game.

[nashville_brook]

49. +1

[Poll_Blind]

79. +1

PB

[BlueCheese]

41. Combined with the utter triumph...

... of extending the Bush tax cuts in December, this has been a banner year for liberalism.

[neverforget]

50. I was saying back then something like this was going to happen

because the Republicans are like that

[Blue_In_AK]

83. Yes. n/t

[Rosco T.]

43. IT also means he KNEW that they wouldn't take it...

.. he played them.

[Hissyspit]

44. So we're going to get... what?

[MouseFitzgerald]

45. I have a question

Everyone seems to be saying that we can cut $650 billion from Medicare and Social Security and not have it effect anyone. How does that make sense in any way shape or form? Is there anyone in this country who actually believes that we can cut that much money from SS and medicare and have it not negatively impact those programs?

Seriously, how are people not more upset about the fact that Obama offered up that much in cuts to programs that work exactly how they are supposed to and save lives? It sounds like a really bad joke when people say that we can cut that much and not have it effect anything. What am I missing?

[Poll_Blind]

46. K&R!

PB

[alfredo]

47. He knew the reps would not accept anything he proposed. Nothing less than

Default will satisfy the Reps. He could have promised the moon, but the reps would demand Mars and Venus.

[Angry Dragon]

55. I say televise these negotiations

It is our money, our future, our lives that these
Professional Politicians are negotiating and not theirs'

Do the American people have a right to know?? .......

HELL YES I SAY

[neverforget]

56. We most certainly do

[Major Hogwash]

57. Why? You've already got the WWF and cage matches on teevee and that should satisify our

bloodlust.

Besides, I don't want to watch Boehner cry all of the time.
I'm sick of that dick.

[neverforget]

58. Oh come on! It'd be fun to watch the Orange run off that man's face

[Major Hogwash]

61. If they would agree to have girls walk through every 10 minutes or so, wearing those slingshot

bikinis, I might tune in for awhile.

I have never understood why a woman would put on one of those things.
It looks to me like it would break their collar bones if they ever bent over.
But, they are interesting to watch them walk around in, I have to admit.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

70. I want to see them throw furniture, and have duels with pistols.

Live on C-SPAN. Would make it lots more fun.

Hey, it worked for Aaron Burr. :evilgrin:

[apples and oranges]

64. The cuts were going to be on the provider side

[Change has come]

84. What sense does that make?

So more providers stop supporting people on Medicare or Medicaid? It is already hard enough to find a Doctor that will accept these programs. This causes people to seek treatment at emergency rooms. This causes health care costs to skyrocket for everyone and leads to even more Doctors dropping these patients.

[Jakes Progress]

67. Let's all wait for the apologies from those who called us emo babies for saying the truth.

Uh. Waiting.

[Nay]

107. Indeed, Jake. I get so sick of this same shit playing out time after time, and

we're still told we're a bunch of alarmist crybabies. We've got this president figured out, and no one will listen.

And to think I voted for this guy!

[mmonk]

68. It's all voo doo.

[FreakinDJ]

72. The Results are TRUE

The TeaFarty is loosing support from the American public at an alarming rate. They haven't even looked to their comrades in Wisconsin having their collective Asses handed to them in the Recall Elections

Was the gamble worth it - latest I've heard Social Security and Medicaid are completely Off the Table, the American public resoundingly have called for Tax increases on the Wealthy and Corporate Tax Loopholes closed and when Democrats run on "Strengthening Social Security and Medicaid next year who do you think the voters are going to listen to

[EFerrari]

78. There is no result yet.

Obama may decide to go wih McConnell's plan but that isn't a done deal.

[MessiahRp]

105. Obama offering to cave in at every turn has done nothing to turn the tide against Republicans.

Since most Americans still disagree with him on his concessions by LARGE margins. No it's their state by state extremism that has called them out for what they are. Wisconsin put a spotlight on these assholes and has started to drop the dominoes state by state on them. Obama and his attempts to be a Republican did none of that. Grassroots Progressives did the heavy lifting (AGAIN) and Americans have seen the light because of them... and where was Obama during that fight in Wisconsin? Nowhere to be found. As per the usual when it comes to helping his own team out.

Rp

[woo me with science]

80. They certainly were.

Our Democratic Party has been soiled and corrupted, in message and in deeds, probably for a very long time.

K&R for cutting through to the heart of the matter.

[slay]

85. And some people - I could easily tell you who - will continue to defend him

it's pretty sick seeing so called Dems trying to defend this shit. that he was willing to do that and NOT get rid of the bush tax cuts for millionaire and billionaires should bother anyone who considers him or herself a rational person.

[libmom74]

102. +1

[blindpig]

86. 'Fire in the belly' for afflicting the working class.....

not so much for confronting the ruling class.

[eilen]

88. So basically the insanely selfish saved us from the stupidly reckless. For Now. nt

[woo me with science]

98. Kick. nt

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[South End Liberal]

109. Social Security is on the table - because of theft!

According to a recent article I read by someone who has been tracking and writing about the social security "theft ring" for years, Congress has added social security to the debt debate because Social Security now needs to dip into the $2.5 trillion trust fund to pay current obligations - AND THE MONEY IS NOT THERE, IT'S BEEN STOLEN BY CONGRESS TO PAY FOR BUSH TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY AND THE WARS.

That's why SS is on the table - they are trying to figure out how to cover up the THEFT of our retirement funds!


http://ampedstatus.org/how-your-social-security-money-was-stolen-where-did-the-2-5-trillion-surplus-go/

How Your Social Security Money Was Stolen – Where Did the $2.5 Trillion Surplus Go?


By the way, has anyone heard anything during all of this search for revenue by these bipartisan groups about the TRILLIONS of dollars that went missing at the Pentagon just before 9/11? Remember that?
They're talking about cutting SS and Medicare while the Pentagon still cannot account for TRILLIONS of DOLLARS?

[bertman]

113. Yes they were. I am sorry to say that I NEVER believe anything that this President says.

I never thought I would say that back in 2008 when I busted my ass, donated a LOT of $$ and time to help him get elected.

This is treachery. Pure and simple.

But it is consistent with President Obama's 'approach' to negotiations: first, abandon the position that your constituents want; second, start 'negotiating' by giving in to some of the most heinous demands of your opponents; third, capitulate; fourth, revise what your goals 'were'; fifth, claim victory.

Just mind boggling.

[Fire Walk With Me]

116. I depend upon my social security disability. I will not look easily upon any cuts whatsoever.

[Motown_Johnny]

117. Misrepresenting cuts to costs as a cut to benefits isn't helpful.

He has said for years he would cut costs for Medicare and SS



Haven't you been paying attention?

[EFerrari]

120. Bullsh!t. Every single proposal has included cuts to benefits.

These people have no interest in cutting COSTS. Haven't YOU been paying attention?

[neverforget]

131. Obviously not

[Middle finga]

122. I no longer trust Obama nor the repubs

when it comes to SS and Medicare. It's like a fox and a wolf negotiating on behalf of the chickens in the chicken coop. The outcome for he chickens will not be positive. Hopefully the dem party will stand strong against the WH and the GOP.

[defendandprotect]

124. Remember when Dem presidents used to push policies that helped the country?

[JDPriestly]

126. Obama has fire in the belly in favor of huge cuts to Social Security and Medicare/

That is the wrong thing to have fire in the belly about.

This is a horrendous betrayal of ordinary Americans.

The better thing to do is to leave these programs totally intact and raise taxes on everyone -- including people who receive Social Security -- but on their other income.

Obama's fire in the belly will do the most harm to the poorest. This is terrible.

[neverforget]

127. I agree. It's good to see him use the bully pulpit but he's using it for the

wrong fight. why not single payer or a public option during the health care debate?

[Canuckistanian]

130. Even if SS is cut to the marrow, how will this affect the debt?

Are they planning to rob the trust fund to pay for the debt?