on the radio today I heard someone from one of the vigils in Tucson last night

[Kali]

She was expressing such compassion for everybody and included the shooter. It brought me up short. I felt what she was saying intensely.

If he is as ill as some of the evidence is indicating, where does that leave all the vengeful sounding rhetoric coming from some of us?

I am a little ashamed of jumping to the conclusion that this was going to be a big AHA! moment what with the Palin crosshair thing and all the other hateful shit that is out there. If he would have been just a "regular" crazy wingnut. But this may be a very, very sick, hurting person too. Do we have any compassion for him?

[Zoeisright]

1. No. I don't. He caused untold grief and suffering.

And the 'vengeful sounding rhetoric' is AGAINST the hate and violence. Would you have us be silent instead, like the cowardly repukes responsible for this horror?

Sheesh.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

2. About as much compassion as the RW / TPrs have for the unemployed

Yeah, it's really sad.. but they're just lazy.

[blondeatlast]

3. I don't see "vengeful sounding rhetoric" directed toward the shooter himself; I see

concern about what motivated him.

Mental illness? RW media spew? Both? And both is what I've observed being discussed. In fact, I've seen much concern here regarding his possible mental state.

[Rex]

4. I believe most people in the Tea Party suffer from some sort of mental illness.

As do most RWing milita types.

[knowbody0]

5. I do, Kali

immense amounts of compassion for him. lonely, tortured, paranoid. nobody "heard" what he was trying to say, even those who read his words. I remember a really intelligent friend of mine pleading with me to stop listening to his words, but to what he was saying. (???) I immediately felt too dumb to get it, but today I kind of do.

these are desperate times for many many people and many are truly alone.

hugs to you and yours

[Kali]

13. thanks

the person talking on the radio was really well spoken - maybe the word is charismatic? - she talked about the things we need to do as a community and how this person had obviously been failed by all of us. It was moving - I intend to find out who she is and maybe try to get a copy of the interview. She may be going places or already doing something special for the world. I was very impressed.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. That doesn't erase Sarah Palin's crosshairs

[gateley]

18. I will agree with that - she loves stirring up the fear and hate "palling around with terrorists".

[BlueJazz]

7. Yes..I do have compassion for him. If our Society had programs to detect..

...and help the Mentally Ill, perhaps a lot of human suffering and grief could or will be prevented.

That still does not excuse someone pointing and influencing the mentally ill to do their "dirty work"

[Fleshdancer]

8. I don't

Hurting from mental illness doesn't give anyone a free pass from condemnation when they plan a political assasination by opening fire on a crowd of innocent people. I'm not going to tell others to not pray for him or feel bad for him, but I'm not going there.

[GoneOffShore]

9. Booth, Oswald, McVeigh, Kosinski, et al

were "ill".

And once they pulled the trigger and took lives, it becomes very difficult to feel compassion for any of them.

And all were incited by rhetoric.

Palin, et al ARE responsible. Those who preach hate ARE responsible.

By the by, please define "just a "regular" crazy wingnut".

[Kali]

19. I suppose it might be the immediacy and proximity of the events

yesterday, but the picture emerging of this young man falling apart in the last year and the writing on those you tube videos - so much going haywire in his brain.

He obviously still had some grasp of things in order to get a gun and take a cab to an event - it had to take a little planning, but I wonder how much longer he would be able to do anything like that.

Sure it is likely crap from the media influenced him somewhat, but did we as a community fail to help? All these people coming forward to say how weird his behavior was lately...how (or is there any way?) could they (we) have helped him and prevented this?

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. At one time we had a descent mental health safety net

then came Reagan...

These days the most that would have happened, assuming he was THAT SICK, is a 72 hour psychiatric hold. They do save lives, but that is NOT good mental care.

Yes policies do have consequences and even in a country with a full safety net some do fall through the cracks.

[madinmaryland]

10. Interesting thought.

I don't know if I am ready to express compassion for the shooter, if ever.

I do believe that the rw vitriol and hatred needs to be stopped, and that the killer may have been influenced by the vitriol and hatred.

[gateley]

11. I feel for him, Kali. It breaks my heart that some people feel so isolated and alone,

and in pain. They just get to a breaking point -- and that can happen to any of us. Yes he may have been influenced by RW fear mongering, but plenty of people are and don't go to this extent, so that leads me to believe he was suffering mentally somehow.

I'm sick about what he did, and sick that so many people in the world feel as though they have nothing to lose and end up causing so much pain to others. :(

Thank you for posting this. :hug:

[Kali]

20. yeah

you put it better than I did

[annm4peace]

12. yes, I do also. and for our country

He sounds like he was a sick individual and the right wing hate machines prey upon these people.

I used to protest in Fresno, Ca and across the street were Freepers.. the guy who started that group, Jim, was with them. I have meet many of them and several are mentally ill and need help.

In my communities there is hardly any mental health help.. and often it is cops who deal with those mentally illness. Serious Depression can manifest with Anger, Hostility, and move towards Delision and Paranoia. and then throw in drugs and you can have some horrific violence

There is also lack of resources for child abuse and domestic violence. That also increases the chance of children growing up to be angry, violent and abusive.

[somone]

14. The real blame lies with the people he listened to

He's a seriously disturbed young man.

[emilyg]

15. Yes - compassion for

all - including the young man and his family.

[jbnow]

16. The "hateful shit that is out there" is dangerous because

of the trigger it can be to the truly sick hurting people out there.

Turning the hurt to outer directed anger, giving some false focus to why things are so wrong, making the paranoia seem valid and giving it a face

Your normal jerk is not going to kill due to what they hear.
And a normal mentally ill person is not violent
Years ago I worked with some very mentally ill clients, some very paranoid. Paranoid delusions are often about government and religion. With some I'd talk to them before they went work every day to help them diffuse some of the paranoia...
I can't imagine what it would have been like if hate radio or glen beck had been so available then and they'd taken so much of it in, their fears and delusions fed that way. Our morning talks would not have helped!

Those crosshairs were horrible but it's the whole atmosphere of hate and smears and lies (which Palin took part in too) that made violence seem inevitable.

[Last_Stand]

17. I'm not enlightened enough...

I'm still angry and all of my compassion has been earmarked for that little girl and the other victims (living and deceased.)

[EFerrari]

21. The one fact doesn't cancel out the other.

He does sound very ill AND the right wing created a context where innocent people got killed at a political event.

[Lex]

22. Yes, I have compassion for him, but NOT for Palin, Beck, Rush

and those others who spew hate day after day, relentlessly.

[Kali]

23. as someone said above

I am not THAT enlightened.

[Matariki]

24. I am admittedly more angry at the right wing rhetoric that made this inevitable.

Compassion is a good thing, it doesn't mean the act is forgiven or condoned. Anyone who would do what the guy did is spiritually and mentally ill. Compassion is healing for the person feeling it and for the world. Can't imagine arguing against compassion.

[kestrel91316]

25. I will grant this much, and only this much: if he is in fact a paranoid schizophrenic,

he needs to be confined away from society for the remainder of his days, period. No "not guilty by reason of insanity". He IS guilty of the murders. But if he's delusional to the degree that some people think, then he should not be subject to the death penalty, nor should he b in the general prison population.

I happen to suspect he is a total asshole RWer who also happens to have mental problems. IF he's not faking, then he's not completely responsible for what he did. I hold those who fanned the flames and put out the hit by their inflammatory words to be just as responsible, if not more so.

[barbtries]

26. very little at this point.

he obviously needed help in a great big way, but instead he went for a gun and look at the suffering he's caused now. i don't doubt that he's suffering, but who brought it on? and who couldn't leave it to himself but went and spread it to dozens and untold hundreds and even thousands?

no, very little compassion for the murderer. the assassin.

[pacalo]

27. My anger is totally focused on the hate rhetoric that gave the shooter the inspiration.

I love your generous spirit & I embrace your message. I especially feel for his family, whom, I can imagine, are devastated & just emotionally drained.

It is indeed the hateful rhetoric of the rightwing that should be the focus. It's the cause; the ones loading up are the effects.

:hug:

[Kali]

28. I found it.

podcast here http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kxci/arts.artsmain?action=viewArticle&sid=14&id=1746853&pid=218

[Catherina]

29. I feel immensely sorry for him.

He's not well at all and doesn't recognize the demarcation between real life and a dream.

[bluestate10]

30. I view the shooter as an unwitting conduit.

The problem is the people that spew hate on the airwaves and on political signs and bumper stickers daily. I am mad at him, but yes I feel badly for the shooter, but even more badly for the people that he injured and killed.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. I saw his mugshot. I don't know if he's "hurting". He's clearly a sick, sick man.

When you have a fucked up dog who attacks and kills children, for instance, the compassionate thing to do -for everyone- is to put them down.

I'm not sure what the answer is. But right now my compassion is fairly well eaten up by the actual victims of this thing. I'm not going to waste a ton of energy, positive or negative, on the guy who did this. He's clearly got some major shit wrong with his head.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Now that the tragedy has happened

he will get the medical care he desperately needs.

And you want hate? Catch rush on the repeat.

As to this young man... I HOPE he gets the medical care he needs, but he also needs to face the court for what happened... and we as a nation need to face the fact that this comes from the current environment...

Oh and the two sides do it is just crap.