This is going to sound paranoid as hell

[LuckyTheDog]

But I am worried that this is the kind of situation that breeds military coups.

And, now, with that, I put on my foil hat: :tinfoilhat:

[Shagbark Hickory]

1. Except it's in America and that won't happen.

[LuckyTheDog]

2. Okeeedoekeee (nt)

[sammytko]

11. I was in the military - no way would something like that happen

Even the miitary under Hitler wasn't behind him 100%. That was the SS - his own state police. They got to be more powerful than the military. There would have to be a version of the gestapo member on every block or heck every house in America for that to ever happen. I'm taking a course in Nazi history this semester - fascinating.

[LuckyTheDog]

16. I hope you are right (nt)

[JackRiddler]

39. (spits coffee)

[RaleighNCDUer]

42. Of course it could - it has happened before.

No, we don't have troops surrounding the WH and dragging the Pres out to be shot - we have 'lone wolf' assassins commit the coup.

Kennedy. Reagan.

What happened with the MIC after those - one successful and one non-fatal but no less successful? Military budgets exploded. Vietnam. Central America. Gulf War. The repugs praise Reagan, but it was Bushco who ran the country during the Reagan years.

The only way we will see tanks in the streets is if there is a popular uprising or a counter-coup - the coup has already happened.

[Shagbark Hickory]

49. None of that would happen in modern day america.

We've got the patriot act to keep us safe.

[blkmusclmachine]

54. +1

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. It is this kind of thinking that brought us here

that stoopid American Exceptionalism...

[Mist]

3. Not a nutty idea--I'll raise you one: Why has the gov't been busy funding

mercenaries such as Blackwater, Caci, et al? Because they're concerned the regular armed forces won't play ball?

[Demeter]

6. Profits for their business buddies

and the army simply isn't getting enough cannon fodder that they can cover the embassies, too.

[hfojvt]

12. I think that is purely political

There are not enough volunteers in our armed forces to run two wars. So you have to supplement them, either with mercenaries and contractors, or with a draft. A draft would cause a major voter revolt, so you go with the contractors. If you are a Republican, it has another huge benefit as well, since it makes a ton of profits for KBR and Haliburton, etc.

[Mist]

21. If the gov't would close down bases around the world, notably in Germany and

Japan, there wouldn't be a need for mercenaries. Of course, that begs the question if there's a "need" for troops in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc.

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. The SS was purely political, too. nt

[Amonester]

57. And very profitable 'kickbacks' in the form of campaign contributions.

It's a kind of Bidless Model very easy to comprehend.

Even Mafiosis could have invented it.

[hifiguy]

29. TPTB are very concerned that the military will not

fire on their own if the feces hit the impeller. The professional military generally have a sense of honor and duty. They have no worries about cops or mercenaries. Those forces are just bullyboys who do as they are ordered. And if that means mowing down the populace they will do so, and gleefully.

[GliderGuider]

56. It's one way to get around Posse Comitatus.

Already tested and found effective in New Orleans.

[aquart]

4. Uh huh. And where is the army that would enforce it?

[Demeter]

5. If there was any military still in country, I'd worry

All we have is the Aryan Nation. Those are the kind of coups I worry about.

[LiberalLoner]

8. Well, I can tell you, as an Army wife and former Army Officer, a military coup by the

Army will NOT happen. NO way. The Air Force...I dunno. I don't fully trust the Air Force, they've gone way Nazi lately for some reason.

But not the Army. I don't know what proof to offer you, I guess none, but I can tell you, the military coup will NOT come from the Army.

[LiberalLoner]

14. But I don't mean to make fun of your fear. I am afraid too. But I do trust the

Army because I've been part of it or around it all my life and I know, they do NOT want to even think about doing a military coup. The whole idea is totally opposite of what we do. We take an oath to uphold and defend the constitution. We do what our civilian leaders tell us to do, and that's it.

Blackwater, etc. - now those people scare me. Not a culture of revering the constitution there, they are mercenaries.

[sammytko]

15. I was Air Force - no way

[LiberalLoner]

18. Oh, good! I'm glad to hear that. Wasn't sure. Not meaning to insult the

Air Force, but when my husband was teaching at an AF base (Wright-Patt) the commanding general sent around an editorial that was frankly neo-nazi. Advocating for eliminating education for women and ending birth control so that white women could outbreed the Muslims because we are losing Europe to Muslims and losing white people.

That memo - the fact that the AF two-star General felt comfy sending it out to all serving under him - alarmed the HELL out of me.

Not meaning to insult the AF but that experience led me to not fully trust them. I'm glad to hear they would never do a coup either.

[MedicalAdmin]

28. Wishful thinking abounds. n/t

[LiberalLoner]

31. ? You mean about the memo, abolishing birth control etc.? Or do you

mean it's wishful thinking that the military won't do a coup, or...? Sorry, not trying to be difficult here, just trying to understand what you are saying! Please be gentle with me, my brain is fuzzy because I had a TAH/BSO five weeks ago and my brain is still all fuzzy from the instant menopause.

[MedicalAdmin]

58. As I mentioned below I think the military would support a coup...

if they didn't know it was a coup. If it was presented as an insurrection or a terrorist attack or ...

Kent state baby only with predator drones and napalm.

[MineralMan]

20. Yup. They'd have a hard time finding rifles for people to use.

At the base where I was stationed in Turkey, where I worked in a very high security area, there was a rack of M-16s. During an Inspector General visit, it was discovered that nobody on the base knew where the ammo for them was. That turned into a fun Chinese fire drill for a few hours. They finally turned up - in a room that required access by a keypad. The combination was so highly protected that only people who worked in that room had it.

That's my USAF!

[sammytko]

26. That is the way it should be - only the armoreres have acess to the armory

If you had been assigned a weapon, you would have known who your armorer was and how to get your ammo. I still remember my "butt" number - A-13!

[RaleighNCDUer]

48. And that very scenario would work in favor of a coup -

the plotter would have that access, while everyone else is running around chasing their assess. If you have just 10% armed and ready, what are the other 90% going to do? The bases would be locked down, half would willingly obey their orders confining them to post or barracks, and the other other half would be confused and disorganized.

Military coups are NEVER carried out by the overwhelming majority of the military. It is always a focused minority.

[Demeter]

19. Thanks for that on-the-spot assessment

I concur with both your opinions.

The Air Force could do a lot of damage, but hold the government? Not designed for it. Besides they are busy in 6 different countries, too.

[Earth_First]

7. I'll raise you one IBTL n/t

[LuckyTheDog]

9. Why would this be locked?

I am not advocating for a coup. I am just worried that it could happen. Trust me, I don't think such a thing would be good for me or for the country.

[liberalmuse]

10. And revolutions...

except Americans have more important things to do than take to the streets and fight for their basic human rights. If there is a revolution, it will happen from the couches all across America, during the commercial breaks.

[SoCalDem]

13. not here.. We are mostly occupied with entertainment and food

and texting, so as long as people can afford to do those things, there will be no cups (at least the kind where people take too the streets and throw the bums out)..

but

we really HAVE had a coup of sorts.. the teabag people in congress (a teensy minority) have managed to hornswaggle our president and the senate into pushing the self destruct button.

They only achieved their coup, because of a previous and longstanding coup.. the one where big corp money merged with big info/media, and completely co=opted out government..

but hey.. "Big Brother" is on, and J-lo may be waffling on her American Idol gig, and football is going to happen soon, and Tiger thinks he can still play golf.. and those Kardashians are probably up to something..

who's got time to ponder the possible loss of the home interest deduction, or loss of millions more jobs, or teacher firings, or cutbacks in Social Security, or Medicare or pensions... somewhere there's probably a sale on some i-whatever, that people are already queuing up for, Benjamins in hand.

[KatyMan]

32. There's nothing wrong with entertainment

Most people can juggle being disturbed about what's happening in reality and wanting to blow off steam by watching candy on tv.

[LiberalLoner]

34. I've had times when I just could not take any more and I would retreat into

a pleasant book, comedic movie, etc. Sometimes I just get so upset, I have to stop for awhile and go into la-la land for a bit until I feel strong again. I think sometimes people have a limit to how much they can worry.

[SoCalDem]

40. Probably MOST people do not even know about what's happening,..,and don't care

most people no longer take a newspaper, and many people never even watch the news. We are interested in it so we are naturally upset, but a LOT of people don't know and don't care.

Ask 10 random people what they think about Boehner's attempts to "fix" the debt limit crisis, and watch as most say. who? what?

[no_hypocrisy]

17. To have that happen, troops would either have to mutiny and disobey

orders of their superiors or their superiors would be leading the insurrection.

[LuckyTheDog]

22. Oh, sure. The troops would never lead such a thing

And I think most of them would disobey those kinds of orders.

[LiberalLoner]

23. I know I sure would have disobeyed and fought against a coup! I am 100% certain

that at least 95% of troops would disobey and fight against it. There are always bad people in any group, so maybe five percent would join, you know, but not more than that, and the 95% would be fighting against the 5% so....

[MedicalAdmin]

30. That's assuming you knew it was a coup.

And I doubt it would be spun that way.

I think it is a realistic possibility. And for those who say it could never happen consider for a moment what else has happened recently that could NEVER happen in the US; torture, unilateral war, rendition, war crimes, social security being touched, debt default.....

Just because it hasn't happened here before doesn't mean it can never. Crooks and cads are in control and anything is possible. THe mistake made last time when a coup was attempted was in not having all of the conspirators shot dead in public and all of their property and holdings and their families holdings confiscated.

[LiberalLoner]

33. You have a good point. If the troops don't know it's a coup, if it's not played that way in the

media etc., that really changes things.

I'm just saying, most people in the service are pretty decent people.

[MedicalAdmin]

50. True that soldier.

You are right that in many ways they are our last best defense, but only if they know it is happening.

[no_hypocrisy]

25. I'm not convinced. From the time you're inducted to being discharged,

the primary principle is that you obey a superior -- no matter what. That's why poor, weak leadership is deadly for any unit of the military. Their subordinates follow their judgment and their orders. Otherwise, there would be a breakdown of military command and effectiveness.

[LiberalLoner]

35. We get a lot of training not to obey unlawful orders, and we understand

pretty clearly what unlawful orders are. On the other hand, there was Abu Ghraib...

[Solomon]

24. A military coup to ensure that the nation defaults?

What kind of sense does that make?

I don't get it.

[LuckyTheDog]

27. No: To "break the stalemate"

Such thing are always done to "preserve law and order" and "reassure the international community." Any coup plotters would do Wall Street's bidding and raise the debt limit.

[Solomon]

36. But they wouldn't need a coup to do that.

I think that would crash the market.

[LiberalLoner]

37. That's true. n/t

[DevonRex]

52. No, the coup would happen after default and it would be teabaggers.

They hate the US but would love to control it with guns and god

[GreenPartyVoter]

41. Yeah. The military runs on money. LOTS of money. So I can't imagine they

would want to cause economic chaos.

[RT Atlanta]

38. Had the same thought last night

I hope we're both wrong.

[rms013]

43. Even Paranoids have enemys

I wouldn't worry about it. It already took place. It was a Military Industrial Coup.

[onenote]

47. Paranoid and ridiculous.

[Pisces]

45. I don't think you just put that hat on. Sounds like it's screwed on tight.

[coalition_unwilling]

46. Um, the military coup occurred already back on November 22, 1963 - n/t

[DevonRex]

51. Depends on how many in the military are teabaggers.

The kids of my TB relatives didn't have the guts to join the military.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. You are correct

and to those who think it cannot happen here... well then.