invoking the 14th will be a huge political win for Obama

[scheming daemons]

- Wall Street types that are in a panic will send him more cash.
- the public, which has recently begun to realize the severity of the situation, will be thankful.
- the crazies will begin talk of impeachment, which will - like it did with Clinton - get the American people to rally behind Obama and his poll numbers will rise.

Finally, all future leverage concerning the debt/deficit that the crazies would have is gone forever.

The house might vote to impeach, but he would never get convicted in the senate.

This would mean that the last two time the GOP took over the house,they tried to invalidate an election using impeachment. They'd lose independents for a generation.


Obama's political team knows this. Folks like Issa will guarantee his re-election.

This is why he will ultimately invoke it.

[flamingdem]

1. He may be getting lawyerly advice that it could lead to his downfall

via the Supremes.

[still_one]

4. Putting entitlements on the table will lead to his downfall /nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

36. Ditto that sentiment. n/t

[lillypaddle]

2. From your mouth

to Obama's ears. Hope you're right.

[bullwinkle428]

3. Wow. I'm shocked, but I'm actually K&Ring a thread of yours!

:applause:

[Morizovich]

5. Too bad he won't do it.

:(

[WI_DEM]

6. I agree--it's the kind of bold move he needs to make

and will help him politically. If they want to impeach, fine, it didn't do Clinton any harm. It hurt the GOP. The Dems can say that the only thing the GOP can do is try to impeach democratic presidents.

[randome]

12. It is NOT a bold move.

The credit agencies will still downgrade us if we don't get a handle on our finances. They don't need that balanced budget crap the Pukes are spinning but they need a credible government response to the budget. If Obama tries to end-run Congress, that will only lead to more uncertainty and turmoil, which will exacerbate investor unease. Not at all what we need at this point.

[Solomon]

22. That's the crux of it. He could do it, but it would still make the

markets very shakey.

[Mz Pip]

17. I'm not convinced it didn't do

the Democrats any harm though.

THe 2000 election shouldn't have even been close. Infortunately the whole Clinton fatigue thing bled over onto Gore just enough to make it close.

The Republicans will do it again if they can.

[Mz Pip]

7. The GOP will Impeach him if he does, IMHO

I wouldn't be at all surprised that this is what the GOP really wants. Then they can tie up the government even more with another long drawn out Impeachment hearing.

[Enrique]

11. as opposed to what

what was the House going to be working on, which the impeachment would get in the way of?

[scheming daemons]

13. so what? the senate wont convict.... and it will be THE issue for 2012.

[WI_DEM]

20. So what? it will look partisan to the American people and the Senate will not convict.

Even Boehner and McConnell know that if the GOP goes into the election year trying to impeach the president they will be hurt badly.

[Zorra]

23. That is one enormous awesome fringe benefit of invoking the 14th.

You can't buy publicity that good.

[lumberjack_jeff]

26. Republicans gotta do what Republicans gotta do. So what. n/t

[Mz Pip]

27. So what?

It will make the US look even more like a joke. I can't imagine it will do the country any good. We don't live in a bubble and the whole world will seriously start to lose confidence in our ability to govern ourselves.

I think how we appear to other countries does matter. There really is too much at stake to turn this mess into a circus presided over by clowns and buffoons.

[lumberjack_jeff]

35. We look like buffoons because we are buffoons. It's not Democrats responsibility to make Repubs

... look like non-idiots.

[katnapped]

29. And if he does nothing

They'll impeach him anyway

Sooner or later we have to stop with the "OH NOES THE REPUBLICANS WILL YELL AND SCREAM" shit

[kenny blankenship]

8. Something we can actually agree on.

[Raven]

9. Could it even get to the SCOUS? Who would have standing? Who

would be harmed by such an action?

[Davis_X_Machina]

15. Bush v. Gore, baby.

Anyone five justices want to have standing, will have standing. And anyone they think is liable to be harmed will be found liable to be harmed.

[yodermon]

10. I think he will, or something similar which we haven't thought of yet.

Point being, it's too early to show whatever card he's still got. I'm thinking Monday after COB.

[alcibiades_mystery]

14. You will never know he's going to do it until he does it

Three other things have to happen before that trigger gets pulled:

1) Boehner bill passes House, fails in Senate (or fails and is tabled in the House)
2) Reid bill passes Senate, fails House (or fails and is tabled in the Senate)
3) Clean bill at the 11th hour fails in House and/or Senate

The 14th Amendment option will never be discussed as an alternative until and unless those three things happen.

[flamingdem]

16. However, this could all happen today! MSNBC reports Boehner says "I'm smiling"

so a deal might be worked out. Ut oh.

[WI_DEM]

21. Of course he's smiling, just so he can get it passed he no doubt accepted every lunatic

suggestion that the Tea Partiers came up with. It doesn't mean anything. The bill still dies in the Senate.

[flamingdem]

24. Yeah, it looks like the smile is just about getting the super baggers on board this time nt

[scheming daemons]

18. you are 100% correct

But I think those three things WILL happen.

[tridim]

19. Republicans Charge President Obama With Saving America, Threaten Impeachment

Would be a good headline.

Bring it on idiots.

[Coyote_Bandit]

25. Seems to me

that Obama and Boner are a little lacking in the political capital required to end this fucking game of chicken.

[flamingdem]

28. Don't compare the Boner to the president please nt

[RDANGELO]

30. It wouldn't be all positive.

Some people would see it as just neglecting his obligation to reduce the deficit. If th 14th amendment is a valid tool, why didn't he say that to begin with. I would still use it as a last resort.

[kelly1mm]

31. I think your senario is sound with one MAJOR wildcard - the Supreme Court.

I think if the SC hears the case and rules for the President then your senario plays out nicely, even stalling the House impeachment.

But, what if the SC rules against the President? Then Obama either

1) Does what the SC says and we default or he caves
2) Tells the SC to take a hike and you have a full on constitutional crisis. Even posibly leading to not only impeachment but conviction in the Senate.

Your thoughts?

[Llewlladdwr]

32. Could anyone explain the mechanism by which the President "invokes the 14th"? Thanks! NT

[DaveT]

33. President directs treasury to issue new bonds

Litigation would probably follow.

It would be a hoot to see Roberts and Company order the Country into Default by a 5-4 vote.

[DaveT]

34. Nothing in his record as President so far suggests he will

do anything like this.

I will happily, joyously, ecstatically eat these words if he does.

But I do not believe he will.

[malaise]

37. I heard an elderly man saying that he and his wife had paid

into both Social Security and Medicare and the only way they wouldreceive their benefits was for Obama to use the 14th Amendment.
People are pissed and rightly so.

[stklurker]

38. 14th

You are missing two big things

1. It does not solve the ratings problem... In fact it probably makes it worse
2. If SCOTUS rules it unconstitutional it's game over