Looking for credible evidence of shooters political views.

[bighart]

Not hearsay (my third cousin played soccer with him in middle school and says thus and so) or speculation (he belonged to this group so he MUST be right leaning) but hard evidence to counter the "crazy leftist" going around at the office. Has anyone seen or heard anything quote worthy from this guy that reveals his political leanings and/or a possible motive?

[Teaser]

1. why bother.

you won't convince people. humans are not logical. they will continue to believe whatever they've been wired to believe. there is nothing you can do about it.

[spanone]

2. how about he SHOT a democratic politician and 18 of her followers?

[bighart]

6. Sorry but that isn't credible evidence.

It is speculation pure and simple. Saying that is like saying since Hinckley shot Regan he must have been a liberal, it doesn't work.

[randr]

3. From what I have seen presented so far

Jared is most closely aligned with Sen. Ron Paul.

[gateley]

4. Pete Williams was just saying on MSNBC that he apparently was disappointed

in Giffords personally, that he'd attended a function like this one, asked her a question and was unhappy with her response. He told a lot of people about this. I don't know whether or not she was still a Republican at the time, I didn't catch the date.

[pintobean]

12. August 30, 2007

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1

<snip>
On Sunday, federal prosecutors charged 22-year-old Loughner with one count of attempting to assassinate a member of Congress, two counts of unlawfully killing a federal employee, and two counts of attempting to kill a federal employee. Giffords was the target of Loughner's rampage, prosecutors say, and the sworn affidavit accompanying the charges mentions that Loughner attended a Giffords "Congress in Your Corner" event in 2007. The affidavit also mentions that police searching a safe in Loughner's home found a letter from Giffords' office thanking the alleged shooter for attending a August 30, 2007, event.

Tierney, who's also 22, recalls Loughner complaining about a Giffords event he attended during that period. He's unsure whether it was the same one mentioned in the charges—Loughner "might have gone to some other rallies," he says—but Tierney notes it was a significant moment for Loughner: "He told me that she opened up the floor for questions and he asked a question. The question was, 'What is government if words have no meaning?'"
"He said, 'Can you believe it, they wouldn't answer my question.' Ever since that, he thought she was fake, he had something against her."
<snip>

Linked in one of cali's threads.

[gateley]

40. Thanks - always leave it to you guys to find anything. DUoogle! nt

[emulatorloo]

5. His videos: Obsessed the the gold standard, obsessed with the constitution,

obsessed with English and people who won't speak English, Obsessed with Goverment practicing mind control. I do not know any liberals who are obsessed with the Gold Standard or are obsessed with people not speaking English

====

A good summary of video content here, but go see for yourself if they are still up. Incoherent.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/09/jared-lee-loughner-rightwing-rants

Jared Lee Loughner: erratic, disturbed and prone to rightwing rants
Loughner echoes concerns of Tea Party movement in videos that reveal fears about government brainwashing

====

In a series of videos, he gave a rambling account of obsessions and paranoias that appeared to be troubling him with increasing intensity up to the catastrophe. They included references to conscious dreaming, or "conscience dreaming" as he called it, a process of directing one's own dreams that he is thought to have practised. Another was a belief in the gold and silver standard of currency – a favourite topic of the rightwing of American politics that is regularly propounded by the Fox News commentator Glenn Beck.

The tone of Loughner's rantings is almost exclusively conservative and anti-government, with echoes of the populist campaigning of the Tea Party movement. "Don't trust the government listener!" he said in one video, accusing Washington of mind control and brainwashing.

The US constitution, the bible of the Tea Parties, features heavily, as does the suggestion that the federal government is acting against the text. "You don't have to accept the federalist laws. Read the United States of America constitution to apprehend all of the current treasonous laws."

There is also a strong streak of implicit violence in the postings.

===

See WillPitts thread on that article

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x154515

[bighart]

7. Have seen some of them and at best it could be concluded

that he was possibly libertarian.

[emulatorloo]

9. Yes. And I think maybe that friend of his getting quoted is confusing "Liberal" with "Libertarian"

[Hassin Bin Sober]

13. It's now been laid out for you.

Anyone who has been paying attention the last fews years knows the deal. In fact, we have been expecting it. So has the justice department.

I get the impression you aren't trying to sway your office.

What would constitute "proof" for you?

[bighart]

21. Not looking for "proof", just something credible.

What I have seen thus far seems to be speculation and hearsay. I have watched some of this guys videos, read some of his writings and maybe I am just stupid but he seems to me to be all over the place. I can't find anything so far that gives me any kind of clear indication of his political bent beyond possible libertarian.

[ClassWarrior]

24. You just described Randy Paul, new GOP Senator from Kentucky.

But it's all just speculation and hearsay, right?

:rofl:

NGU.

[emulatorloo]

26. There is a big Libertarian component to the Tea Party

Some DU'ers don't appear to know that.

You cannot imagine how many "I am a Libertarian" defenders of the tea party I have interacted with on the internet.

[ClassWarrior]

14. Libertarians are just Rape-Publicans who want to smoke pot.

NGU.

[jtown1123]

34. You are correct. SPLC expert said these are right wing fringe ideas.

[Nye Bevan]

8. Here's his "manifesto"

Hello, and welcome my classified leak of information that’s of the United States Military to the student body and you. Firstly, I want you to understand this from the start. Did you know grammar is double blind, listener? Secondly, if you want to understand the start of revelatory thoughts then listen to this video. I’ll look at you mother fuckin Anarchists who have a problem with them illegal illiterate pigs. :-D If you’re a citizen in the United States as of now, then your constitution is the United States. You’re a citizen in the United States as of now. Thus, your constitution is the United States. Laugh. I’ll let you in on their little cruel joke that’s genocidal. They’re argument is appeal to force on their jurisdiction with lack of proof of evidence. Each subject is in question for the location! The police don’t quite get paid correctly with them dirty front runners under section 10? Their country’s alliances are able to make illegal trades under section 10. Eh! I’m a Nihilist, not someone who put who put trust in god! What is section 10 you ask? If you make a purchase then it’s illegal under section 10 and amendment 1 of the United States constitution. You make a purchase. Therefore, it’s illegal under section 10 and amendment 1 of the United States constitution. We need a drum roll for those front runners in the election; those illegal teachers, pigs, and politicians of yours are under illegal authority of their constitution. Those dirty pigs think they know the damn year. Thirdly, tell them mother fuckers to count from 0 to whenever they feel a threat to stop their count. We can all hope they add new numbers and letters to their count down. Did you run out of breath around the trillions, listener? Well, B.C.E is yet to start for Ad to begin! What does this mean for a citizen in any country? Those illegal military personal are able to sign into a country that they can’t find with an impossible date! How did you trust your child with them fraud teachers and front runners, listener? Did you now know that the teachers, pigs, and front runners are treasonous! You shouldn’t jump to conclusion with your education plan. The constitution as of now, which is in use by the current power pigs, aren’t able to protect the bill of rights! Do you now have enough information to know the two wars are illegal! What is your date of time, listener? Fourthly, those applications that are with background checks break the United States constitution! What’s your riot name? I’ll catch you! Top secret: Why don’t people control the money system? Their Current Currency(1/1) / Your new infinite currency (1/~infinte) This is a selcte information of revoluntary thoughts! Section 10 – Powers prohibited of States No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it’s inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress. No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay. Each subject is unlocatible!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x144974

[Xenotime]

Looks like the ramblings of a RW lunitic to me.

"If you’re a citizen in the United States as of now, then your constitution is the United States." - Sounds like typical RW constitutional fetish

"make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts" - RW Obsession with gold and capitalism

[Zax2me]

10. He cannot display political views

At least not with clarity. He has mental problems. To look for any political sanity within him is a futile effort and frankly a waste of time.

[bushisanidiot]

11. he showed up to a political event with a gun and assassinated the democratic congress member

that was holding the event.

of course it was political! why would a fellow democrat, or liberal shoot anyone, let alone another democrat for political reasons?

the right wing idiots are showing just how CRAZY they are when they try to defend themselves here.

[bighart]

15. Not to be disagreeable, but that isn't credible evidence>

It is merely speculation, guilt by association if you will.

[Nye Bevan]

16. Lee Harvey Oswald shot a Dem and he was a communist IIRC (nt)

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

20. So is John Hinkley a liberal then? (n/m)

[MH1]

17. Opinion, but by an expert in the field of violent extremism; and with some facts included

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/01/09/who-is-jared-lee-loughner/#more-5442

[bighart]

22. That is an intelligent interpretaion of things.

Thanks for posting it.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

18. who cares what his "political views" are

the indisputable facts are the violent rhetoric, the calls for assassination and revolution are coming from one side, and the people getting shot are Dem's.

http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-democracy-and-freedom/insurrection-timeline

[ClassWarrior]

19. +1

NGU.

[democrat_patriot]

23. See Post by Will Pitt **AHEM** on front page of DU.

Lays it out.

[Jamastiene]

25. The only one I have seen so far that might be credible is at this link.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_78272a23-fe75-5bee-ba38-f8171cda3fb7.html

It says he registered as an Independent.

[Shandris]

27. Here's your credible evidence:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x162478

His voter registration.

I notice the reply above me indicates that an article claims he was 'Independent'. Interesting.

EDIT: UPDATE: Debunked. I hate photoshoppers. :(

[Motown_Johnny]

30. And We Have A Winner !!!!!

That is proof positive of his political views


Thanks for posting this

[Shandris]

31. No longer relevant (n/t)

[sufrommich]

32. Debunked as fake. nt

[Shandris]

35. Yeah, I just noticed -- and noted -- the update also. (n/t)

[KansasVoter]

28. You sound like a troll!

[bighart]

29. Please explain how.

This is the only political message board I am a member of.

[jtown1123]

33. EVIDENCE: Olbermann's interview with the Southern Povery Law Center Expert

He says the grammar and currency references are right wing fringe group nonsense. You can find at at the Countdown website.

[bighart]

37. I read the SPLC info after I posted this. It is very good information

and I am very glad to have read it.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IScreamSundays]

38. If you are really interested, most aren't

here is a thread that leads to a link of his internet postings on a conspiracy site.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x162302

[bighart]

39. Interesting.

[Rex]

41. So what evidence do they have at your office when they throw

around the 'crazy leftist' thing? Did you ask?

[bighart]

42. "The Communist Manifesto" is all they have.