George W has blood on his hands for this too.

[savalez]

If GW had not allowed Clinton's assault weapons ban to expire, the Arizona shooter would have ran out of bullets after 10 shots. As it stands the shooter was tackled when his 30 bullet clip ran out of bullets.

This is what happens when politics supersedes common sense.

[Kingofalldems]

1. Here we go

:popcorn:

[firehorse]

2. Axis of Evil

When he started dividing people into black and white terms such as "axis of evil" and "you are either with me or against me", I knew we were f***'d. It was just a matter of time till the mentality of demonizing one's neighbor was next.

And if we want to go farther back, I'd assign blame to "christian warriors" who also perceive they are at war, and if that if you are not with me you are against me kind of mentality.

Americans love war and violence, its the American way, to solve problems with weaponry, invade, and violence. When we are not using weapons we are selling them.

[Cleita]

5. You are so right about that.

The axis of evil remark made my hair stand up and I though oh, no, this isn't going to end well.

[brendan120678]

3. Possibly...it certainly would have made it more....

difficult for him to get the magazine that he used.

But even with only 10 bullets, people still would have died.

[savalez]

8. yeah I suppose you're right.

[Statistical]

4. Try reading the one of 50 threads debunking this.

1) The shooter wasn't tackled when out of ammo he only fired 20 rnds. His weapon may have jammed, extended capacity magazines tend to do that.

1a) The Va Tech shooter using standard capacity magazines was able to reload 4 times without being stopped.

2) A magazine change takes about 2 seconds. A jammed weapon takes much longer to clear. If anything his stupidly large magazine may have lead to his inability to quickly ready/reload the weapon after the jam.

3) The utter failure AWB (better known as the "scary black rifles" ban) didn't ban selling 30 rnd magazines. They were highly available in every gunshop in the country prior to, durring, and after the ban.

"This is what happens when politics supersedes common sense."
I agree the utterly worthless AWB is an example of politics superseding common sense. It also cost Democrats control of Congress which led to a lot of other really bad things.

[savalez]

6. Not being a closed minded person,

I can certainly consider all of those arguments.

But can you expand a little bit on your comment about AWB costing Dems control of congress?

[Statistical]

9. Sure. From Bill Clinton's Autobiography "My Life"

Speaking about the 1996 election (less than 2 years after the AWB was signed).

------------------------

The NRA had a great night. They beat both Speaker tom Floey and Jack Brooks, two of the ablest members of Congress, who had warned me this would happen. Foley was the first Speaker to be defeated in more than a century. Jack Grooks has supported the NRA for years and had led the fight against the assault weapons ban in the House, but as chairman of the Judiciary Committe he had voted for the overall crime bill even after the ban was put into it. The NRA was an unforgiving master; one strike and you're out. The gun lobby claimed to have defeated nineteen out of the twenty-four members on its list. They did at least that much damage and could rightfuly claim to have made Gingrich the House Speaker.

----------------------------------

http://books.google.com/books?id=PVmJqiW4mpMC&lpg=PA215&ots=iHOIJe8KpJ&dq=The%20N.R.A.%20could%20rightly%20claim%20to%20have%20made%20Gingrich%20the%20House%20speaker&pg=PA215#v=onepage&q=The%20N.R.A.%20could%20rightly%20claim%20to%20have%20made%20Gingrich%20the%20House%20speaker&f=false

There is also supporting information to back this up. In exit polls Democratic share of gun owning households plummented. Even Union households w/ firearms can in well below historical norms. Sadly this trend continued in 2000 and Gore received less of that critical voter block than Clinton did in his first term.

Even FBI and DOJ studies confirm the AWB was worthless. There was no perceptible decrease in violent crime or any other metric. The ONLY thing the AWB did was increase profits to gun companies and kill Democratic control of Congress.

[savalez]

15. Interesting. Thanks Statistical.

[sharesunited]

7. And don't forget Dumbya's defanging the causation liability aspect of guns and ammo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act

as distinguishable from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dram_shop

[ProgressiveProfessor]

12. Yes he did. Every once in a while he got something correct

[sharesunited]

13. You oppose dram shop liability?

Maybe you do. At least that would be consistent.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. Apples and Oranges, but then again, you know that

[sharesunited]

17. You might want to elucidate a bit on that.

If you're against Dram Shop liability, it would be because you place exclusive responsibility on the imbiber. He who sells the drink is just engaging in lawful commerce and should not bear any blame for resulting misbehavior.

If you're for Dram Shop liability, you include the merchant as a party from whom resulting damages can be recovered.

If your point is that gun sellers are Oranges because they had the political influence to get themselves absolved from tort liability, then I say that is a cop out. There's no justification for bestowing Orange status on Apples. It would only be because of an undue national affection for guns and ammo and a desire to protect their source.

[teabaghater]

10. That POS has

so much blood on his hands you'd have to skin them to get it off. But what about his black heart?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. Not even close to true, but don't let that slow you down

[savalez]

14. A smart alec one liner! Shazam!