In Arizona shooting, Europe sees an America gripped by doubt, pessimism

[XanaDUer]

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2011/0110/In-Arizona-shooting-Europe-sees-an-America-gripped-by-doubt-pessimism


Paris
European reaction to the Gabrielle Giffords Arizona shooting is seen strongly through the lens of the tea party rhetoric and as symptomatic of a superpower in decline and at the mercy of “radical” politics.

...The Giffords story in Europe today mirrored questions in US media about the degree to which anger, conspiracy theories, and intemperate talk show rhetoric is to blame either for the context of the shooting...The conservative Die Welt stated today that: “This murderous attack came from an atmosphere of discord and self-doubt, because America is experiencing the limits of its power on a daily basis, whether it be on distant fronts or with dissatisfaction at home. It has never been like this. There always was the motto: ‘Yes, we can.’ Today, widespread pessimism prevails, because of the financial crisis, and because of Iraq and Afghanistan, lost battles ..."

[thaddeus_flowe]

1. a friend of mine recently returned from france

and he intimated to me that while the UK becomes more of a police state (traffic cameras),
much of the continent knows better than we; how dire the situation here is becoming.

[RavensTown]

2. It is becoming very dire

[Statistical]

3. Violent crime in UK is more than double that of the US despite being a Police State. n/t

[thaddeus_flowe]

5. yes,

but according to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinations_and_assassination_attempts
the last attempted british political assassination was in 1991
by the IRA.
there are people in college who were born after that.

[Statistical]

6. Given the odds of being the victim of a violent crime is about million times more likely

than being target (even bystander) of a political assasination attempt I think violent crime rate might be a more useful stat to indicate the level of chaos in a fallen state.

How many politicians & officials (federal, state, & local) are there in the US?
How many assassination attempts have their been in the last decade?

Sorry cold hard statistics matter to me. Treating a single event as the norm is what got us the TSA and Patriot Act. It is a sad reality that the citizens of Britan have traded freedom for a security state and still are plagued by violence.

[thaddeus_flowe]

7. good point,

i can only attempt to comprehend facts as a means of comprehending reality.
i will leave it to someone named statistical to provide cold hard statistics.

[reggie the dog]

8. really, what kind of violent crime?

are there more fistfights??? there sure as hell are less shootings in the the uk per capita

do the riots count as violent crime?

[-..__...]

9. No...

those were peaceful rock throwers, vandals and assailants.

[reggie the dog]

11. i thought so too

and they managed only to attack the price's car, several banks, the supreme court and the treasury buliding... and i think they raided the torry party headquarters,.... but that is not RANDOM violent crime...

[-..__...]

12. You're right..

it's DELIBERATE, orchestrated, planned violent crime.

[Statistical]

13. How about robberies, assaults, burglaries, and rapes?

The UK has highest violent crime rate in Western Europe. Higher than South Africa and roughly 10x the United States.

I used 2008 numbers because at the time 2009 numbers weren't available for UK (they do crime report every 2 years).

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_01.html
US Violent Crime Rates (2008)
Total Violent Crime: 454 per 100,000 citizens
Robbery: 145 per 100,000
Burglary: 730 per 100,000
Aggravated Assault: 274 per 100,000
Rape: 29.3 per 100,000

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/hosb0708chap2.xls
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/hosb0708chap3.pdf (sexual crimes recorded separately not under violent crime)
UK Violent Crime Rates (2008):
Total Violent Crime: 4933 per 100,000 citizens
Robbery: 710 per 100,000
Burglary: 3090 per 100,000
Assault: 1070 per 100,000 (technically assault resulting in a serious injury called "wounding" in UK overall assault rate is even higher)
Rape/Violent Sexual Assault: 113 per 100,000

So that is
Violent Crime Rate: 11x the United States (3x even if you excluded all violent crime without serious injury)
Robbery Rate: 5x the United States
Burglary Rate: 4x the United States
Assault: 4x the United States
Rape: 3x the United States

[reggie the dog]

14. i am glad i dont live there

[Liberal_in_LA]

4. yikes

[pampango]

10. Europe "mainstreams" the anti-immigrant sentiment. Here it goes "tea party'.

"European reaction to the Gabrielle Giffords Arizona shooting is seen strongly through the lens of the tea party rhetoric and as symptomatic of a superpower in decline and at the mercy of “radical” politics.

The conservative Die Welt stated today that: “This murderous attack came from an atmosphere of discord and self-doubt, because America is experiencing the limits of its power on a daily basis, whether it be on distant fronts or with dissatisfaction at home. It has never been like this. There always was the motto: ‘Yes, we can.’ Today, widespread pessimism prevails, because of the financial crisis, and because of Iraq and Afghanistan, lost battles ..."

If there is a “resonance point” with Europe in the Giffords shooting, it may be in the rise of anti-immigrant and anti-Islamic rhetoric and right-wing sentiment on the Continent and fears that have been steadily raised about them. However, much of the overall style and direction of those new European anti-immigration politics has been to “mainstream” them in ways considered reasonable for centrist and middle-class voters.

Europeans have paid attention to numerous stories on former Alaska governor Sarah Palin and her pro-tea party website that “targets” Giffords and includes the comment “Don’t retreat … reload” – as a symptom of the tone in US politics. A guest column in the German Der Spiegel today warned that vitriolic attacks against Mrs. Palin from the left were themselves a manifestation of intemperate anger, and warned they could backfire by making her a victim of political elites."

[Rex]

15. I think the Old World just called us a dying empire.

:popcorn: