Cops use creative tricks to catch dead beat dads

[apples and oranges]

What do you think? Have the police gone too far this time?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hVWt_m1iJgE

[Lucian]

1. Luring them under false pretenses doesn't seem right to me.

[Freddie Stubbs]

35. Not paying child support doesn't seem right to me

[NYC_SKP]

2. The preferred term is "Deadbeat Parents" (the video shows a dad, then a mom...)

All deadbeats.

:hi:

[valerief]

3. Did they give them the tickets? nt

[Speck Tater]

4. It's a hell of a lot better than bashing down the wrong door in the middle of the night

and shooting some innocent kid.

I approve.

[LiberalFighter]

5. Seems like a waste of resources.

Prosecutors should be able to handle this better.

I wonder if they actually get any of the child support this way? It doesn't pay any when they are sitting in jail.

[joeglow3]

21. Can't be any less than they are paying now.

[Bake]

6. Hey, cops: There's one in DC ... I believe his name is Walsh

And he's a teabagger.

Bake

[Maru Kitteh]

16. + 10000

[pennylane100]

7. UNBELIEVABLE, people have a problem with how police catch parents who abondon their children.

They may not have dropped them of on a deserted highway, or left them locked in a room to starve, but they walked away from the responsibility of providing food and shelter to their own children. They are worse than common thieves and drug users. Who do they think is going to help take care of these children. People I know have raised children with no help from deadbeat parents, while knowing that the absentee parent is not jobless or homeless. And people here at DU have a problem with how we make them accountable. Incredible.

Please note I used the word parent not dad. There deadbeat mothers and fathers and I blame them both equally.

[demosincebirth]

8. Here on DU, it's damned if you do and damned if you don't. Thats why moderates

are despised here.

[readmoreoften]

32. For the love of god. You can support police finding deadbeat parents and condemn them for gunning

down homeless people in the streets without being a "moderate."

[demosincebirth]

37. Police are necessary and I am the first one to condemn an over zealous police Acton. Living in

the Flat Lands of Oakland and seeing the indiscriminate killing of innocents because of someone disrespecting someone, or wearing the wrong color in the wrong part of town, kind of changes your feeling for some cops roughing up some gang banger who has a record a mile long and who has just attempted a heist of some poor hard-working man or women who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or a group to gang bangers spraying bullets into a crowd of innocent people just because they think a rival gang member is part of the group and instead, a 3yr old takes a stray bullet in the neck and dies. When outrage against the police is deserved, I have it, and will be the first one to speak out. I have no compassion for any of these hoodlums trying to destroy our city.

[Lucian]

11. The ends don't justify the means.

[pennylane100]

12. What ends are you talking about.

Holding parents accountable for abandoning their children. In impoverished families, with a single parent working for low wages, abandonment is a form of child abuse.

I am not saying this is true across the board but let us take an average low to middle class income working family. One parent walks away, does not care how the child or children are clothed, fed or sheltered. Do you really think we should be concerned about their loss dignity when we trick them into coming forward. Let's try inviting them to step up, out of the goodness of their hearts and take responsibility. Please tell me how well you think that will work.

What means would you suggest, bearing in mind that it a child's well being that is at stake, not a deadbeat parent's dignity.

[lumberjack_jeff]

26. Most often, the motivation is to recapture the cost of public assistance provided to the kids.

So it's not about the kids wellbeing, it's about the cost to the public.

If it were about the kids wellbeing, more effort would be put into enforcing and encouraging visitation.

[1monster]

13. Is it okay for cops to lie? I don't think so. I hold no brief for those who abandon their

children, but I don't think it is okay for cops to lie.

If you or I lie to a cop, we can (and will) be charged with perjury or obstructing an investigation. They can lie materially and thus deny people thier civil rights and nobody even raps their fingers.

And believe me, they do lie. They make wall to wall carpets look like rank amatuers when it comes to lying.

on edit: I'm always typing "thing" instead of "think"

[demmiblue]

15. I am thinking that these parents already had arrest warrants issued.

I didn't watch the video, though.

[1monster]

18. It doesn't matter whether or not the arrest warrants were already issued. They lied.

I know of a case where the cops lied about who issued an arrest warrant. Said it was a federal warrant, when, in fact, it was a state warrant. (The father of the arresstee questioned the arressting officer about why the federal warrant was being served by a local cop -- and they lied then too.

The arresstee was retarded. They then lied to the arrestee, who had been instructed to say nothing to anyone without his lawyer present. They told him things would go easier on him if he talked to a detective.

The family wasted an hour and a half trying to find a federal lawyer. And the detective got the arrestee to confess to things that went back to when the arrestee was eleven years old and put words into his mouth.

Had the arresting officer told the truth, the family would have had a lawyer at the jail before the arrestee was taken there.

Civil rights denied by lying cops.

Cops should not be allowed to lie after the arrest warrant is issued.

[EOTE]

20. Thanks for explaining this.

So many people look at things done by the police that they approve of and don't give a damn about how it was done because they approve of the ends. They don't understand that if we give police the ability to lie for good, we give them the ability to lie for evil as well. "The ends justify the means" is NOT a decent basis for a system of justice.

[joeglow3]

23. How are the deadbeat parents having their civil rights violated.

I get it in you example, but fail to see it in this story.

[1monster]

24. So you want to allow the cops to lie in some cases, but not others?

Then it becomes a judgement call. So a cop makes the wrong judgement, but, hey, it was a judgement call and s/he made a bad judgement. Too bad.

Take the judgement call out of it. Ban lying so there are no bad judgements.

After all, if you get caught lying to the cops, you will most likely see the inside of the pokey.

I believe that law enforcement officers should be held AT THE VERY LEAST to the same standards as the citizens. If they lie in a criminal case, they should suffer the same fate as a citizen would face for lying to the cops.

[joeglow3]

25. So, NO sting operations?

After all, pretending you are will to go through with a deal etc. are, in fact lies.

A lady comes to me and only has her word that her husband is trying to take out a contract killing on her. Sadly, the cops can't pretend to be for hire, as it is lying.

A roommate comes to the police because their friend trades online child porn pics, but the cops can't pretend to be an adult wanting to share pictures, as it is lying.

Sorry, but your philosophy is flat out impractical.

[1monster]

27. Sigh. Undercover operations are one thing. What I'm talking about is another.

When an LEO is questioning witnesses, suspects, prime targets, or whomever, they should not be allowed to lie. Period. Stop.

[joeglow3]

33. So, this does NOT fit under your criteria and is okay.

The deceived someone to get them in custody for a crime, but did NOTHING to violate their civil rights.

[1monster]

36. Personally, I don't care what you think,and I'm not arguing or defending my beliefs to you anymore.

I don't think LEOs, prosecutors, politicians, bureaucrats, or anyone should lie any more than, "no, those pants don't make your butt look fat."

Integrity is important, especially where Justice is involved. Take it or leave it as you please.

[joeglow3]

38. And yet, there is no consistency in your views.

You just said it was okay to lie and pretend like you wanted to buy child porn from a suspected pedophile and act like you are a contract killer, but then say they should never lie. I would run away with that indefensible of a position, too.

[emilyg]

9. Good.

[PotatoChip]

31. +1

[USMCMustang]

10. Almost Funny

It is funny not to have visitation enforced. It is funny to lose your good job and take one paying less money and be accrued at the higher rate after you were maximized. It is funny that your ex did not work and you bought a house for them. It is funny that you can't get a reduction even though you make less money and she remarried immediately. It is funny when they take your drivers license and passport even though you still pay what you can and live on 15 cents for every dollar you make. it is really funny when you lose your job and they lock you up with no shit criminals because you were a father at one time.

It is scary when your divorce lawyer tells you that a convicted murderer in South Carolina has more rights than a man in family court. It is very interesting when you show them on paper that they want more money than you made in that time period even though you paid the first child off. It is funny when they basically tell you to fuck off and keep paying.

It sucks to have been the provider for all of those years and get no credit for it-none.

It is a very fucked up system and I have no sympathy for those who dodge their responsibilities, but when you try and can't get a fair hearing--that is fucked up and it happens more often than you would think. Men give up because the system is against them. I still pay and will continue to until the bullshit sum they demand is paid. I didn't think that I could make just over 40,000 in three years and be expected to pay $90,000 in child support. But then again, I am a male and South Carolina is a retarded state.

[demmiblue]

14. Sure:

"It is funny that your ex did not work and you bought a house for them." Are you saying someone else took care of your children? Did you not want a roof over the head of your then wife and children?

"It sucks to have been the provider for all of those years and get no credit for it-none." You did get credit for that. Your kids had a roof over their heads, were clothed, had full tummies, etc.

"I didn't think that I could make just over 40,000 in three years and be expected to pay $90,000 in child support." Seems strange, to say the least. I don't think you are telling the full story.

And, yes, there has to be a better solution than jail time for most, I will give you that.


P.S. you may want to rethink the use of the word 'retarded'.

[apples and oranges]

17. That sucks

Hang in there, man.

[Wait Wut]

22. I understand what you're saying.

Others won't. I've known several good dads in my life that were screwed by the system. Lots of bitch moms doing everything possible to "punish" the ex for whatever reason they could find. Sadly, there's a he/she mentality still in place in this country and tears still work in court, no matter how fake.

On the other hand, I've also known some seriously dickish parents (both genders) that don't give a damn about the kids and will do whatever necessary to hide income. I've been to court twice as a witness for two friends of mine.

Your situation may or may not improve, but do your best to maintain a good relationship with your kids. If you get the whole "mom said..." crap, smile and ignore it or tell them that their mother is entitled to her opinion.

[-..__...]

19. Nothing new about that tactic...

nothing improper or wrong with it either.

PD's across the country have luring unsuspecting fugitives/court no-shows/individuals with outstanding warrants, in this manner for years.

Seems more reasonable, safer, productive and less time consuming than trying to bring them in individually.

[SoCalDem]

34. Sting operations under controlled circumstances go on all the time

It's safer for all concerned, and it is effective..

What I do not like, is when they turn it into a media event. That could also interfere with future "events"

[Ohio Joe]

28. bwahahahahaha, freakin awesome

I am perfectly fine with this.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

29. I don't think they have gone to far.....they need to take it nationwide

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

30. They should have issued invitations for them to pay for their kids they abandoned

I'm sure they would have lined up for that, right, handwringers in this thread?