Why is it that Americans do not RIOT? This was a worthy question

[nadinbrzezinski]

so I will try to give you an answer and one that might be nuanced, so bear with me.

Back in the day (well around the 1900s) Goodman asked why is it that Americans do not have a class consciousness. She was not the only one puzzled by this very American Phenomena. While workers in Europe KNOW they are workers... Americans didn't in the 1900s (And they did by spades when compared to modern Americans).

So why is?

Here is my working thesis for the MODERN DAY american... stemming from still a lot of reading and more to come.

We are all middle class.. the media has convinced all of us that we are middle class. The middle class does not riot... it is not a middle class value.

The middle class wants to have a certain level of living and does not care for a struggle. The middle class is not part of a social structure.

This has been an amazing magical trick. But go ahead, turn on your TV an watch carefully any TV. Except for places like Current... when was the last time you saw an expose on American Poverty? (They used to run by the way, and Al Jazeera is not American TV) When was the last time you saw any comedy or tv program speaking to the terms of the working class? Ok Oz sort of counts, but think of what Oz is about.

Think of Cheers, for example... I know it is not running... or Eureka, still running on the Sci Fi channel... do you see any WORKER in there? Nope, in Cheers even the postman is middle class. Trust me, that is one of those jobs you come home and take a shower from. So this TV has a fantasy of what life in the US looks like and that is what people are watching. Hence they do not see how their neighbors really live. Don't get me started on insert reality show here. I enjoy chopped, reality TV, but the formula is the same. You win, you are successful you get ogle of money. Even our news coverage is very directed and specific. so here you have it, a TV drama detailing the lives of MODERN DAY workers, or real poverty is not going to happen. So you get an image of what should be, and accept it as what it is.

Of course there are other realities. like being two weeks, a paycheck, from the streets.

So here is the first part of the struggle, get people to realize that being working class is not about stuff and income... which is the definition currently. And that most of us could never be "middle class" but rather we are all workers. And that we are in a fight with the 2% of the population, probably less, a few of them will not take sides or find the current situation dangerous (Warren Buffett and George Soros). In other words, we need some class consciousness. How Wisconsin goes tomorrow, at least to me, will be indicative or how hard the fight will be. If we win... it will be a tad easier. If not... on the short term, good luck.

Oh and one last thing... no the politicians are not mostly on our side. They are elites, period.

[fascisthunter]

1. Consumerism... Entertainment... and Greed

so many think they care, but when they think of the consequences to their comfortable lifestyles, it becomes too much of a sacrifice for them. The irony is, the sacrifice is probably minuscule to what you lose in the end.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. That is on the surface I am afraid

The more I read the more I realize that we are a caste society without any class consciousness,

Middle class is a fantasy foisted on us.

Oh and don't get me wrong, comsumerism is a huge part of the problem... but having an IPAD defines you as part of the society, middle class.

Why even kids in poor areas want the Nikes and the IPOD. Imagine if those kids embraced what they are, and used it as a political force.

[underpants]

9. and the social safety strucrue

1 man hungry is an arrest
10 is an incident
100 is a riot



and riots grow

[Tunkamerica]

2. Just off the top of my head:

Everybody Hates Chris did a good job of showing the inequalities of black and white families in the 80's. And pretty much everybody was working class.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. What year are we on? When was the last time anything like that

OUTSIDE of current, has been done? I mean CBS used to run those stories REGULARLY.

[Tunkamerica]

6. it ended in 2009 set in the 80's

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Then my apologies and I missed it

But still the main thrust still applies... I did mention Oz, but that is set in a jail,

Oh and links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everybody_Hates_Chris

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oz_(TV_series)

[Tunkamerica]

78. Yeah I agree with you and shows like this are the exception

especially quality shows.

A few more that are currently on:

Raising Hope is working class. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia is decidedly working class, but none of the characters are likeable, really. My Name is Earl is recently cancelled and the working class are frequently the butt of the joke, but are also the heroes and villains.

Movies are much more likely to have working class characters.

[unkachuck]

5. most Americans are apolitical.....

....and are being continuously distracted by corporate bullshit and corporate 'things'....and no countervailing systemic choice to capitalism is ever tolerated by the corporate interests, such things can't even be discussed in public....

....maybe most Americans are wimps?

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Or highly manipulated into caring about

Lebron James and not the health care bill. Even among highly educated people I've seen this phenomena.

For the record, I did not know who Lebron was until that month two years ago

[unkachuck]

18. yep....

....and the multi-ethnic makeup of our country doesn't make focusing our collective attention on real issues very easy....

....we're gamblers at heart....we have a piss-on-today attitude because we're convinced we're only a moment away from becoming billy gates or winning the lotto....we love our system even more, as it's shoved into our ass....

[Jim Warren]

10. Too wordy

The predominant areas in the world, the specific neighborhoods, where people are taking to the streets are undergoing 20% to 50% unemployment and experiencing scarcity in the marketplace, or worse like no water or basic services.

Let it approach those conditions here and you'll see torches being lit with thesis paper.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. We were there in 1900

and there was still no class consciousness... which has always been a puzzle.

And that was my point. It really is a trick.

[Jim Warren]

17. In 1932 45,000 camped on the White House grounds

The Bonus Army took over DC, eventually were fired upon by a Marine armored division led by a young upstart named Douglas MacArtur

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Yep but that was the depression which also saw an uptick

in actual class consciousness. I think we are heading in the same direction.

Remember the 1932 election was the best showing for the Communist Party.

[Jim Warren]

28. Hello!

By jove, I think you got it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. By jove I have had it from the beggining

and the last thirty years have seen quite a trick in making sure we don't, for the moment.

[Jim Warren]

49. It's a false premise

Conditions for the average person in the US currently are simply too good. When those conditions for the worse, with changes across a wide audience, you'll a whole different side of society

But carry on, I don't think you need anyone else to have a discussion, lol.

[WCGreen]

39. Ike was there as well.....

[kiva]

61. And Patton.

Interesting side story - during WWI Patton was wounded and dragged to safety by his orderly, Joe Angelo. Angelo received the Distinguished Service Cross for his bravery.

Fast forward to Washington, 1932. Angelo, a member of the Bonus Army, asked to speak to Patton and, along with some other men, were brought to see the major; (from Patton: A Genius for War): "When Major Patton saw them, his face flushed with anger: 'Sargent, I do not know this man. Take him away and under no circumstances permit him to return!'"

After Angelo was removed, Patton told the other officers that were present that Angelo had indeed saved him, but that he (Patton) and his mother had 'supported' Angelo since and besides, what would the reporters say if they heard about this meeting.

[Cronus Protagonist]

11. We're too stoned

*pppffffffftttttttttssssssnickerwhoooooooo^

:headbang:

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Psychotropics are well on the rise in the US

still, that be the USSR on steroids.

(And no, I will not fully discount that given the use of them in the general population)

[Dad Infinitum]

13. Because most Americans are ignorant to what is happening

[HipChick]

14. the media helps that too...right now, there is very little US media coverage of the riots..

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Yes, part of the working thesis

but it is not the only reason...

[WinkyDink]

38. Most Americans are fully aware of Social Security, though.

[joshcryer]

19. It starts with the education system and runs up to the mass media.

We're taught from small children to "respect authority." And the mass media makes sure we do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. You think German schools don't teach kids to respect

authority? How about England?

The media is fully part of it though.

[joshcryer]

75. They're not as good at it as we are.

Not by a long shot. Hell, most all of EU pays your way the entire way and you don't have to start working until you're in your early 30s.

[inwiththenew]

20. We did in LA in 1992

53 people got killed and who knows how many thousands were injured.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Oh trust me, I know that

but in general the question was asked... and it goes beyond just riots. Though I think I see something happening that may not involve riots.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

26. My daughter's best friend was orphaned by those riots in 1992.

He went off on his bike to play, he came back to the hood and it was in flames.
He was seven years old.

The woman I thought was his mother, all these years, is his aunt, who adopted him.

:cry:


He is a beautiful and talented young man. Hispanic and one-quarter Japanese.

[madrchsod]

24. if we did we`d be shot....

[Hugabear]

25. What are you talking about? Americans do plenty of rioting

We riot after the Super Bowl, NBA finals, during Christmas shopping when the Kmart only has one more Tickle-Me-Elmo, etc.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Out side the LA Riots, which are the most recent

to even compare to London...

The last time we did was the 1960s.

A small time KMAR riot for baubles is really not a riot.

[7wo7rees]

29. Just imagine cold war Russia and how easy that would go down.

Bread lines, toilet paper lines, gas lines.
Imagine that each of these activities was well-attended by cell-phone-toting American Idol viewers addicted to Starbucks.
It wouldn't feel that out-of-place at all. They won't see it as anything more than the way we do it now.
Bill Hicks was right: You're FREE to do as we tell you.

I know you and I won't feel this way, but all the people in line in front of us will tell us to be calm, and you'll get the bread you're here for.
Hush now or you'll alert the taser guy. Just play addicting games on your phone like everyone else and it'll all be over. Nobody gets hurt.

[femrap]

30. Why don't Americans protest?

Pron and food stamps...that's why. Now the Prez says he will extend unemployment benefits.

Americans are lazy and UNEDUCATED.....AND POLITICALLY UNAWARE. BUT I BET THEY KNOW ALL ABOUT THE LATEST ON E! CHANNEL.

[Chorophyll]

41. We don't protest because we have food stamps and unemployment benefits?

You think they don't have social programs in England???

[femrap]

80. OK, then

why don't we protest? I guess there have been disturbances in Philly.

Another thing I don't understand...why burn down buildings in their own neighborhood? Shouldn't the rioters be down on Fleet Street and going after the Banksters? Too cowardly to go after the big boyz?

Maybe the death of the young man in Tottenham sparked this....as of yet no spark in the US??

ETA:

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/151850

[Chorophyll]

83. Excuse me. Your implication was that Americans don't riot

because we're lazy due to food stamps and the extension of unemployment insurance. Sounded like a Republican sentiment to me!

By the way, America has a long history of riots. LA in 1992 springs immediately to mind, but there have been similar riots in every decade.

I can't tell if you think riots are a good thing or not. They almost always involve destruction of the rioters' own neighborhoods. How about organized, coherent protest instead?

[femrap]

84. I think most Americans

are stupid...our educational system has been so dumbed-down, they can't seem to help it. (Thank you, Raygun). And, of course, organized religions have made wedge issues so important when they're not.

People vote against their own best interests....I think that is stupid. Poor people w/ not a pot to piss in and they're voting for Repugnants. I meet them all the time and it is infuriating to me. And it's always about abortion or homosexuals. I give them my speech....but how much gets in their brain is a big question.

I was in CA for the LA riots. They burned down their own neighborhood. Or was it 'instigators?' Who knows? I'd be heading out of Compton to do destruction. The Anger and Frustration of those who seek Justice must be narrowly focused on the those causing the problems...and that would be Banksters and Wall Street.

A kid in London said, "We protested last week and the Media didn't report it. We have to destroy to get attention."

Civil disobedience is an answer. But it isn't the '60's and '70's anymore. Have you been to DC lately??? Going to the Senate is like going through the Iron Curtain. So many police and huge amounts of weapons.

It's a police state. DC has the highest poverty in the nation. A disgrace.

I hope that Mother Nature comes in and settles 'things.' At least end the Globalized Economy.

[Chorophyll]

91. I'm still wondering about your "unemployment insurance" line, though.

Anyway, yeah. Screw civil disobedience. I hope Mother Nature comes in and settles things too. That'd be great. I'll just put my ten-year-old on a raft and hope for the best, huh?

[femrap]

92. You seem to be itching for

some kind of fight.

All I am saying is: When people do have food and a roof over their heads (supplied by unemployment insurance), they tend to revolt/disrupt/disturb less than if they are hungry and cold....like the Hoovervilles. However Social Justice can come into play and change things.

I would assume that most sociologists would agree with that.

Did you read the link I offered about why the Youth Don't Protest in this country???

Sorry, but earthquakes happen. If the Madrid or San Andreas goes, it will be massively destructive. Or if a comet hits Earth...BAM!
But that would end globalization. Obviously, you haven't read much about the Mayan calendar nor the tilting of the axis every 26,000 years.

Sorry, I brought it up. And I'm very glad I didn't reproduce. That was your choice so deal with it like an adult.

I'm done. You've hit the list.

[Joe Bacon]

45. The churches keep the masses brainwashed.

All those pulpit pimps preaching the Pro$perity Go$pel and promising their fleeced flocks pie in the sky when they die as long as they follow their corporate masters.

Marx was right about religion--it is the opiate of the masses and keeps them docile even more than pure heroin.

[femrap]

85. That's for sure.

These Pro$perity Churche$ are so far removed from the teachings of Jesus, I don't see how they call themselves Christians. I guess they're Chri$tian$.

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/151850

Interesting article.

[Richard D]

31. I think . . .

. . . valium, ativan, prozac, etc.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. oh that is some of the answer

trust me... but not the only answer.

:-)

[AmBlue]

32. umm... lemme see... WAIT!... Dancing With the Stars is coming on!...

That and air conditioning. When we've lost those two things, watch out.

Oh, and of course the media-anesthesia we are all dosed with daily helps keep everyone calm.

(And I only wish I could add the sarcasm thingy here...)

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. As I said, part of it is media programing.

[Chorophyll]

43. So they don't have "Dancing with the Stars" in the UK?

Really?

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Yes they do, but they also have working class pubs

[Chorophyll]

51. Oh I see. That clears everything up. Thanks.

Those working class pubs cancel out British television completely. You can watch your reality shows, then go out for a beer and get a great political education.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Do you understand what it means to have class consciousness

You understand what I am talking about. We had a little of it here, but in England it is still real, So I am being very serious, do you undertand the term? Because you are making fun of pubs were yes, political education happens. You are talking of places where there is also a lot of talk of football, and where people understand it is us vs them. We talk a good name, they live it.

No, not trying to be sarcastic, but this is something that for the most part people really do not understand in the US, and it is not a fault of us... we simply are not wired as a society, YET for that.

[Chorophyll]

54. Yes, I understand what it means to have class consciousness.

I do not understand why you feel rioting is an effective expression of same. The only people who will be adversely affected by the riots are the working class.

By the way, I've got friends in the UK. They are all progressives and they are distressed by the riots, which appear to be not particularly political in nature. Please don't assume you're the only person here with any knowledge of the world.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Re-read the OP, I never claimed it was effective

It was asked by Bonobo why is it that people don't. It is an extreme act... it is far from effective... but is has similar roots to more useful acts.

[Chorophyll]

58. Your OP purports to explain (to Bonobo, apparently) why American's don't

riot. You said it's because we've been brainwashed by the media into thinking we're all middle class. The implication is that we should be more class conscious and understand that we're NOT all middle class. The further implication is that if only we understood this, we would riot.

Seems kinda pro-riot to me.

Anyway, as a few people have already pointed out, sometimes Americans DO riot.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. Anyway you misunderstood, having been as close to a riot

than I ever want to ever be again... I am not pro them, I just understand where they come from. He asked the question, I answered, and if that is not good enough, so be it. Have a good night.

[Chorophyll]

60. You should have answered him directly if you didn't want anyone else

to weigh in.

Good night.

[AmBlue]

62. You are exactly right, Nadin.

And I have to confess here to only quickly skimming your brilliant post (til now). We we are on the same wavelength and you are precisely correct. Very few tv shows I recall in my lifetime portray the "working class" American in a serious way. The Jackie Gleason Show, Taxi, Roseanne are just a very few that come to mind, and of course they were all comedies. Honestly-- as a viewer-- I think most people watching thought of all those characters as middle class, whether they were or not. You might occasionally see something on 60 Minutes that hints at unfairness in the workplace, but of course that's always "them," never "me" or "mine."

The powers that be in America have managed the same kind of population insulation with regard to wars with the "fight 'em over there so we don't have to fight 'em here" meme. I personally always thought that was pretty rude, sort of like saying, "I think I'll go have a bowel movement in my neighbor's yard so he can deal with the mess and my yard stays perfectly lovely." But I digress...

There is another factor to consider regarding the insulation of the American people. We are physically isolated and insulated by the two large oceans to our east and west, and also by two peaceful neighbors to our north and south borders, making it very easy for our corporate owners to keep us happily occupied. It's very difficult for Americans to wrap their heads around all that messy turmoil we hear about in places like Bosnia, or Rwanda, or Czech Republic, or (insert country). They all seem so far away, so unconnected from us-- and now we're all running so fast and so intently on our own hamster wheels, trying to keep it together financially, who has time to notice?

Of course, consumerism has been an effective pacifier as well. But now that many of us no longer have two nickels to rub together for food and medicine, much less shopping, they are losing one of their modes of anesthesia.

I also agree that Wisconsin's elections tomorrow should lay down an important marker for the rest of us. I cannot contemplate the horrific thought that we lose there. We must win Wisconsin back, and I think we will. It's absolutely vital for this nation that we do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Thank you,

I guess since I did not grow up here, I have been able to keep myself partially out of the box... but these days I have to work at it.

:-)

Why every time I go to Mexico I make a point of buying a good read.

And I am with you with Wisconsin... it is that critical, and it is a very American way of starting a populist movement.

[AmBlue]

68. Sadly, many of us thought...

...electing Barack Obama was a "very American way of starting a populist movement."

Insert *laughing while feeling like crying* smilie here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. I am thinking granger halls here

not one elite member of the political class

[AmBlue]

79. Yes, and we are seeing the error of that path now...

...however painfully. There is no substitute for an informed and engaged electorate, and eternal vigilance.

We hear and recognize the admonitions of our forefathers, but in America we have not had to fully learn the lessons yet-- in a painful and personal way. It doesn't happen overnight, but is a process. That process is well underway now and my hope is that it wakes up lots of people, like in Wisconsin. If we can achieve that kind of awareness nationwide, we can shut this corporate stranglehold down.

The unions are key and need to be protected at all costs. Teachers, firefighters and police officers nationwide are painfully aware of these cuts that we're seeing at the state level. I would wager a guess that most of them are aware of what's going down in Wisconsin too. If Wisconsin succeeds, I expect that effort will then spread to other states that under assault.

[AmBlue]

64. Also... one last thought...

We are a young nation, only 235 years in existence. No one living today has seen war on our home soil. We have not had our national freedom threatened-- at least not overtly, and not by the threat of war within our own borders. Unlike Europe and UK and so many other places in the world, we have had a remarkably peaceful run of it the last 150+ years. Hence, the majority of our population do not recognize the fragility of this democracy and it is taken for granted.

All that said, I believe that if the media were doing their job we would have a different country.

Now the threats here are becoming more overt, as in Wisconsin, so perhaps it will bring more popular uprisings that can be organized and effective. I certainly hope so. (Not at all advocating for riots, just speaking to the issue of civil discontent in this country and the apparent lack of action as a result.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. Seems talking about why things happen

implies approving of them.

Which is far from the truth. For the moment I did turn on the BBC coverage.

As to Wisconsin... it is having the feel of leading edge and it has for a while... for a populist revival.

[Chorophyll]

36. Americans do riot, though.

Especially after instances of police brutality or shootings. L.A., 1991. Cincinnati, 2001. Oakland, 2009. There were riots in the 60s, 70s and 80s as well.

Personally, I don't want to see riots in the U.S. Protests, sure. Riots, no.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Trust me I don't want to see them either

and yes they were common in the 60s, cities burned.

We have had a few minor ritos, but what is going on right now in London is something that is not unique, and the conditions are starting to come across.

The last riot of that scope was the Rodney King Riot and this one strikes me as caused by both police brutality, primary immediate cause, and lack of jobs, desperation and economic conditions (which go for the LA Riot too) But in general we have less riots, in the last two generations.

Conditions are such that we may very well see them have an uptick too.

[Chorophyll]

48. Then you should rephrase your OP to ask why Americans only riot a little bit.

And I wouldn't call the L.A. riots "minor."

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. That was the last major riot

sorry, the rest of them were...

And a little bit does not apply YET...

When it does, if it does, and i hope it doesn't... then it will apply. For the record it will not happen until people decide they have little to lose.

[JVS]

71. Benton Harbor in 2003 required 300 state troopers to restore order.

Which might not sound like a big deal except that the town only has 10,000 residents.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. Did my media betray me and never showed me that one?

No serious. Because when media hides things like this too, it is a problem.

Of course I should follow the question with a sarcasm.. media not covering things...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benton_Harbor_riots

Even wiki is sparce...



Thanks, I was not aware of that one, See one learns here every day.

:hi:

[Bonobo]

37. I think you really have nailed it.

The middle class was largely created in order to keep the lower class from rioting.

By giving the illusion that they could rise up to middle class (or like you say that they are IN FACT middle class themselves, albeit "lower middle class"), they removed the incentive to work from outside the system.

It also makes people feel better to know that there are some below them, so even if you are middle class, there is still, theoretically, those that are less well off than you.

Also, it creates a system where the middle class will, themselves, keep the lower class in order, so that the elites don't have to do it themselves.

Bravo, Nadin, you have this one nailed.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WinkyDink]

42. Kent State. Jackson State. The SLA. Waco. IOW: We know full well our govt WILL KILL US.

[cutlassmama]

66. +1 and they are preparing. FEMA camps already in place and waiting

for those that do riot.

[AmBlue]

73. The great majority of Americans do not get this.

The Super Bowl, Justin Bieber, American Idol, what cell phone to get with their next upgrade.... THESE are the things that preoccupy the American consciousness.

[McCamy Taylor]

44. Engel's spelled it out. The bosses divide and conquer U.S. workers along ethnic lines

to keep them from working together. Usually it was immigrant group versus immigrant group, though nowadays it is more likely to be race vs race, men vs women, young vs. old, gay vs. straight.

No one will protest in the street by themselves. You must have a group.

[AmBlue]

70. Now they divide and conquer with...

...political parties and religion and, worst of all, the conflation of the two.

[seabeyond]

50. vandalism and destruction is not the answer. it is not something to strive for.

inevitably it is the working class that incurs the cost of the vandalism and destruction, not the people that has created the anger.

what a stupid thought that we should be destroying peoples property to make a statement. that we should have owners of small businesses pick up the tab for our anger. and i have no desire to cause violent harm to anyone, including the police.

[AndyTiedye]

56. But They DO!

[KeyserSoze87]

57. It's due to the rise of apathy and selfishness over the last 30 years, and the American Dream.

In the 1980s, Reagan told Americans that, rather than supporting world peace, helping one another, and fighting against racial and economic inequality, we should only care about ourselves, and that we should never try help the poor, the needy, and the sick, because they got themselves where they are and don't deserve to be saved. He convinced the American people that the true path to happiness and prosperity is to try to get rich and to always be greedy, even if it means creating misfortunes for others; and if you always follow orders and never question what you're told, you will make it to the top. So ultimately, this is why Americans don't normally revolt, because over the last three decades and still to this day, they have held this belief that if they continue to work hard enough and take it up the rear, they'll someday be rich and famous. And finally, they should NEVER rebel, because if they do, they'll lose their jobs. So ultimately, they're hopeless and pessimistic, and the only thing they feel they can do is shut up, do what they're told, and hope for the best. Because of these crazy ideas, America has gone from a democracy to a plutocracy, and soon, it could become a fascist state if we don't change our ways.

[defendandprotect]

67. Why aren't Americans political -- as Europeans are?

And, I do think that Americans have continued to be aware of their status even post New Deal --

We regularly referred to ourselves as "upper Middle Class and lower Middle Class" --

and "poor" -- all the way to "very poor."


because the New Deal was one of the greatest STIMULUS packages ever put in place, I think

Americans were simply optimistic about things getting better -- not necessarily

to enrich themselves with money -- but with education, literature, arts, family, recreation.


New Deal was also the first truly economic democracy -- and without economic democracy

there is no democracy!


Also think that Americans are coming to understand that TV is corporate-BS --

My advice is turn it off -- put the TVs in the closet!!


If you want to discuss "Cheers" and the distraction it is intended to be --

begin with "I Love Lucy" -- !! Think about it, we had fascism taking over half

of the globe -- we had introduced the ATOMIC ERA -- we had the McCarthy Era purging

liberals from every level of government -- and the arts and sciences -- and what was

America doing? Watching "I Love Lucy" -- !!


Now reflect on all of that and ask how Americans were kept from the decision making?

Americans did and could trust FDR -- in the main -- he wasn't perfect -- but generally

they trusted him and relied on him.

That was part of where the disconnect was -- their trust in their president and the

Democratic Party.

Was thinking about this today and you can't help but hear the term 'SHEEPLE' echoing

in the air -- Americans are stupid?


I don't think so -- I think first of all given the New Deal their BS meters were just set

waaaaaaaaaay too low to completely figure out what was going on. They may have had an

odd feeling in the pit of their stomachs about one thing or another -- but they weren't

political -- they didn't sit in pubs talking politics. Rather they sat in taverns and

watched SPORTS on TV. Or talked SPORTS.


The other problem was that they were told that we had defeated Hitler/Nazis/Fascism while

others were plotting its resurrection and were bringing it into America to infiltrate and

take over our government and its agencies -- and elected offices. And our political parties.



Did it make Americans SHEEPLE because they really couldn't conceive of people who get up

every day thinking only about how to gain control over others?

Did it make them SHEEPLE because they just really never understood that capitalism is

suicidal?

Was there any way that Americans could have reached the conclusion that capitalism/elites

would so betray the nation and humanity as to commit CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY in the

exploitation of nature which has brought us Global Warming?


Most Americans don't think this way so they could never have come to understand those

whose only thoughts are taking what others have. Most of us -- like every other fairly

normal person on the planet -- simply want to live in peace.


And, that's another point -- where in our consciousness could we have ever come to believe

that -- while we all prayed for PEACE -- there were so many plotting PERPETUAL WARS?

But they were --

[JVS]

69. And risk an injury requiring medical attention in the most crushingly expensive system in the world?

[donheld]

76. We sometimes do, but only if our favorite sports team wins or loses

the big game.

[Chorophyll]

77. They do that in the UK too.

Quite famously. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster

And the US has a long history of non-sports related riots. L.A. 1992 comes to mind instantly, but there have been others in recent years.

Are violent mobs better when they're not about sports?

[The Stranger]

81. You forgot Archie Bunker

"Boy the way Glenn Miller played . . ."

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. For some reason I always forget him

but he is such a non likable (on purpose) character.

[MicaelS]

82. Here's the thing about rioting....

The wealthy and powerful do not suffer. They don't get THEIR neighborhoods, their luxury homes, burned to the ground. They do not get their small business, their entire livelihood, destroyed. They have gated BIG businesses, gated communities, gated homes with "safe rooms" and can hire HEAVILY armed security to defend all of them. Hell, they can hire their own mercenary army with full automatic weapons to defend them. They can flee on their private jets, private yachts, or via their armored cars. They have plenty of money for insurance, and get reimbursed.

So, who gets burned out in rioting? The working man / woman. They get their homes, neighborhoods, cars, trucks, and small businesses destroyed. If they don't it's because they have guns and are prepared to shoot the rioters to stop them. Remember those Korean merchants defending their business during the LA Riots? http://www.enotes.com/topic/Korean_armed_resistance_in_the_Los_Angeles_riots

Why would someone be so stupid to burn out their own life? Their neighbor's life? Their relatives lives? The LA rioters didn't run to the wealthy suburbs, and hang a bunch of lawyers, accountants, or movie star, did they? They wrecked their own neighborhoods.

You round up all these rich bastards in one central location, and a bunch of them might get shot.

BUT, if some "lone wolves" would attack a single rich bastard or his luxury home, he'll just be labeled as a madman, or a terrorist, or WTF-ever is the slur of the moment, by people on the right AND the left. And then someone will wring their hands, and proclaim about the evuuuul, awful, horrible guns, and how we would all be a much more enlightened society if guns didn't exist. And the NRA will be blamed. And If the lone wolf uses an AMFO bomb, why he's just another Tim McVeigh, or Anders Behring Breivik.

So what's left as a weapon? Molotov cocktails, I guess. Maybe that's the only "legitimate" weapon of the oppressed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. There is a logic to these thing

and I'd prefer, once one gets started, that they did it at somebody else's place, But I was looking at targets and they are not just in the hood. Why they mostly stay in the hood? Transport. The brits closed down the tube... that is not accidental.

[MicaelS]

89. Plenty of cars in LA even in poor neighborhoods...

What kept the rioters from heading into the hills and wealthy suburbs?

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. transport, you try to move them to Beverly Hills

what kept the riot in TJ outside the hood, again transport, they took busses over.

[Desertrose]

86. Yeah I think you nailed it,too.

This, for sure!!

"Oh and one last thing... no the politicians are not mostly on our side. They are elites, period."