I want to get this out of the way early; I have no faith in the integrity of the Wisconsin vote

[Atman]

Of course, we could -- and and should -- win handily. I expect we will. But, given the truckloads of cash, the crooked election official who has already proven herself to be a loyal foot soldier, the electronic voting...I dunno...like Han Solo said as they approached the Death Star -- "I have a bad feeling about this." Wisconsin Republicans have already shown themselves to be immoral thieves who will stoop as low as needed to get what they want. This is high-stakes shit today. I'm not expecting they'll just be sitting home waiting for the poll results tonight.

So, let's overwhelm them. Make it too clear to steal. I'm with you, Wisconsin. Let's do this thing!

(edited for typo)

[Bluebear]

1. Heartily recommended!

[TahitiNut]

2. Well, pay no attention to the man behind that curtain.

:shrug:

"Ignorance is Bliss" will replace "E Pluribus Unum" ... since Latin is a dead language and we're seeing the end of the Age of Reason.

[KansDem]

3. 18,181

DU thread from 2003

I'll never understand why we're still using electronic voting machines supplied by private companies that favor Republicans...:shrug:

Edited for correct placement of comma

[Atman]

4. I blame the machines for moving commas, too!

Just kidding. Great post, thanks. I had never read that story.

[KansDem]

5. Sorry...corrected

:blush:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

12. oh I will never forget

[defendandprotect]

35. ... also weird how overnight "wins" by Dems turn into losses --

[PeaceNikki]

36. lol, that never happened.

The SC race you refer to was non-partisan.

[defendandprotect]

38. I was thinking of Don Siegelmann ... Alabama -- for one -- !!

[undeterred]

6. Pretty sure there is no voting going on in the area where the crooked person lives

since it is a Republican stronghold and there are no Senators being recalled. So she won't be involved in counting any votes this time around. Other than that we usually haven't had any problems with the count.

[Peace Patriot]

9. How do you know you "haven't had any problems" with "the count"?

it never ceases to amaze me how "faith" in private corporate 'TRADE SECRET' vote tabulation with virtually no audit/recount controls has replaced the most fundamental requirement of democracy: vote counting in the PUBLIC VENUE. We might as well be living in the Middle Ages with a multinational church crowning the kings and emperors.

[undeterred]

20. I have not heard of other reported problems in Wisconsin

besides the Waukesha problem. Have you?

[tblue37]

29. With electronic voting machines, you wouldn't know if they were

shaving a votes from the Dems. There would be no evidence of "problems."

[PeaceNikki]

34. Paper ballots are required by law. We have very few DRE's and all require paper trail.

Thanks to our last Democratic governor.

[Scuba]

7. Given that Kevin Kennedy of the GAB outsourced our elections to Accenture....

...I share your concerns.


C'mon Cheeseheads, today is OUR DAY!!!!

[CTyankee]

8. I've had that "bad feeling" for a while now in anticipation of that vote.

Hubby is in Wisconsin now and I'm going out tomorrow (Door County). He's telling me that the TV ads on the recall are brutal. I hope this doesn't result in a backlash against the unions...

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

11. nor I

[Peace Patriot]

13. GO WISCONSIN! GET OUT THE VOTE! OVERWHELM THE MACHINES!

But I have to say that I very much share Atman's concern.

Unfortunately, it's a crap shoot whether or not the private corporation 'counting' these votes with 'TRADE SECRET' programming code, and, in WI, with miserably inadequate audit/recount controls*, will decide to utilize its enormous, untoward power to keep these treasonous bastards in office, or will back off because it's too high profile, or will produce "mixed" results to keep everybody confused. The outcome is simply NOT up to the voters of WI, except in a very attenuated way.

The only strategy possible in this voting system coup d'etat (private corporate takeover of the vote counting itself, all over the U.S., that occurred during the 2002-2004 period) is an overwhelming turnout, so that those calling the shots in the few corporations that now control election results will hesitate, fearing exposure of their Stalin-like power. They NEED this ultimate control of election results for many, varied, long term purposes, and WI is a very likely state for rebellion against 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting to begin. If they let the people win in WI--or half win--the growing suspicion of these corporate machines may go away.

Crap shoot. We can't know. They have fixed things so that we CAN'T KNOW. That IS the problem--and whether the people of Wisconsin win, lose or draw today, the problem will remain.

'TRADE SECRET' voting counting is the worst attack on our democracy that has ever occurred!

--------------------------------------------


*(HALF the states do NO AUDIT AT ALL, in systems that are mostly ES&S/Diebold (a far rightwing-connected corp that now controls 80% of the voting machines in the country), but the extremely weak audits in states like WI may be worse, in a way, because they create an ILLUSION of security. I believe that the audit (automatic comparison of ballots to corporate machine results) in WI is the 1% typical of the optiscan systems (or at best, 3%, probably only for recounts). 10% is the MINIMUM needed to detect fraud in electronic voting systems, according to experts whom I respect. Venezuela does a whopping 55% audit--more than five times the minimum necessary--and they have OPEN SOURCE code--code that anyone may review. We in the U.S. are forbidden, by corporate-written law, to review the code by which our votes are tabulated, and the corps have also lobbied (very corrupt lobbying) for NO audit and, in progressive states where they have more need to fool people, the LEAST audit they can get away with. This is an outrageous situation!)

[BeFree]

19. TRUTH!!

But it is a bitter pill. Most folks, I fear, feel better not being fed the truth.
It really is much too awful to comprehend that our votes may not be counted as cast.

[Dappleganger]

14. There is little doubt

that those who are really in charge of WI will do whatever it takes to secure the election for themselves.

[gkhouston]

15. Yes, I'm concerned about that, too. I wonder how valid Walker's election was. n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. I think EVERY TEABAGGER freak that was 'elected' needs to be investigated. I highly doubt

ANY OF THEM actually won the election. Now that we know what the Koch Brothers and KKKRove have been up to...I say Walker and all of his TEABAGGER party is illegitimate.

[Peace Patriot]

21. You shouldn't have to wonder if Walker was elected. It should be obvious from a PUBLIC vote count.

And that is exactly what our political establishment--including our own party leadership--have denied us. They have taken away a PUBLIC vote count--the very basis of democracy.

I have my suspicions. I don't believe that the people in this progressive state, WI, elected this fascist jerkwad. I don't believe that this Scumbag Congress was elected either (most of them).

But it shouldn't be a matter of belief. Election results that we are asked to "believe in"--that we can't verify with our own eyes--are not valid.

In addition to private corporations (mostly just one corporation--ES&S/Diebold) having the ability--the EASY ability!--to change the vote, this uncertainty about the vote count is also an advantage to those who are manipulating and robbing us. It creates an atmosphere of no-recourse, of distrust, of disempowerment, of discouragement. I have seen this corrosive atmosphere eating at the soul of our country.

I've seen corrosive disputes and even more corrosive suppression on the election fraud issue--all because 'TRADE SECRET' voting counting has rendered the results unverifiable in half the stated and unverified in the other half. How can anyone take a 1% audit seriously? It is a joke. And the no-audit states are worse--totally opaque, with not even a chance to verify. ES&S/Diebold just tells us who won. We have not even the remote, expensive, rule-encrusted recourse of a "recount" (3%!).

Well, I think, one day, Americans are just going to stop putting up with this. Maybe we will all just start laughing as with the Emperor With No Clothes. It is very absurd. But I don't know when that might happen. Sometimes things like that do just happen suddenly, overnight. Everybody suddenly 'gets it'--and the charade is over. I hope we have a country left when it does.

[NorthCarolina]

16. I was thinking the same thing. nt

[BeFree]

18. Thank you, Atman

Really, there is no reason to be using the machines to count the votes.

This election could be counted using humans and paper ballots. Like banks count.

Someone in WI should find out how much each vote cost to be counted on the machines. I did that for a small election in my city and it was very expensive.

When it comes to voting and counting the vote, we should all be very conservatively minded.

[BeFree]

22. kicking

[PeaceNikki]

23. Ridiculous idea. These are heavily Republican districts and incumbents.

Walker has an eighty-seven percent approval rating with Republicans.

AND they vote.

People on the outside don't see that but some of us here do. This is the most polarized place in the nation right now.

[readmoreoften]

25. That's good to know. Good to get info from the ground.

People get strike-hardened too. I'm sure a similar process is going on there.

[BeFree]

26. What voting machines are being used?

And you have a link to that 87% figure?

But first, what voting machines are used there, in these few races?

[PeaceNikki]

28. We have paper ballots and the machines are tabulators.

They vary by precinct.

And here: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/123198683.html

[BeFree]

31. Can you vouch for the machines?

If you have personal knowledge, that would be welcome.

If you don't, then maybe you would accept the knowledge base of others who have been studying the machines for years and years?

[PeaceNikki]

32. I watched thousands of votes recounted this year.

Most by hand and those that weren't, I counted along with the machines as they were recounted.

Have you? If you haven't, then maybe you should allow others to have educated opinions of the elections that they are watching.

I think we need to monitor, observe, watch and question, but I have faith in the integrity of my vote here in Wisconsin.

[BeFree]

39. Hand counts?

What percentage of the votes were hand counted?

And how many were from those open bags?

I think you need to de-personalize your replies to me.

Because when it comes to the machines, I'll eat your lunch, as the saying goes.

Now, if you don't know, that's fine. Nothing to be embarrassed about. But would you be willing to learn the intricacies about the machines and how they can easily alter outcomes and you would never even see it happen?

[PeaceNikki]

40. Whatever. Have fun with your kookie conspiracy theories.

:hi:

[BeFree]

41. Kookie is thinking the votes are counted as cast

There is a whole lot of solid, well researched information about how the voting machines steal or miscount votes.

Your labeling that information as 'Kookie' does a great disservice to you and our cause.

You really should reconsider your willfully ignorant stance on this issue.

[readmoreoften]

24. Agreed. K&R. The Pugs are Thugs.

[MoonRiver]

27. ReTHUGlicans are soulless cretins who will stop at nothing to "win."

That said, they can't stop an avalanche of citizen unrest! GO WISCONSIN!!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

30. I believe that the Alberta Darling race is going to be the fraud!

Randy Hopper is fucking winning? This philanderer!??!!

[defendandprotect]

33. Agree -- the pattern of rw election corruption can't be denied -- but GOOD LUCK to Wisconsin!!

You all deserve a good outcome -- !!

[McCamy Taylor]

37. Agree. Are they doing exit polls? That is the only way to keep the vote count accurate.