BBC: London rioters: 'Showing the rich we do what we want'

[Poll_Blind]

From BBC:

A BBC journalist has spoken to two girls that took part in Monday night's riots in Croydon, who boasted that they were showing police and "the rich" that "we can do what we want".

The link is really about the video at the top of the story at the link which contains the audio from the interview over it. Don't be fooled by the "Showing the rich" talk, watch the video. It's just 50 seconds long. I haven't seen anything yet which indicates a depth of reasoning of the rioters which exceeds those expressed by the two girls interviewed.

PB

[xoom]

1. wow.

[MellonCollie]

2. These are the type of people many on DU are cheering on

Laughable!

[dipsydoodle]

4. ditto - see links

They sounded like a cross between Vicki Pollard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsVIkySCcXM&feature=related and Lauren Cooper http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV1zK8zRCPo

If they had brains they'd be dangerous.

[seabeyond]

6. yup. once again, duers fail. nt

[pintobean]

9. some

[seabeyond]

10. yes. absolutely. only .... some. nt

[GKirk]

3. Her parents must be so proud...

...she needs a time out.

[malaise]

5. BBC find two drunk teenagers to be the spokespersons

for this mess. Pathetic.
:puke:

[seabeyond]

7. and you think they are the odd person out? that the mjority of the rioters are taking the higher

road of purity....?

[malaise]

15. I am not in London so I am trying to read the analyses from

persons who know more than me about the grievances of some of these folks. I don't support the destruction and looting of property but this is not about thrills described by two drunks.

I suggest you read the commentaries in the UK Guardian.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. +1000 even the Observer has been interesting

[Poll_Blind]

12. I'm open to links to other interviews, videos, etc. which portray them in a different light.

These are teens from Croyden. This has "disaffected chav" all over it.

PB

[malaise]

23. Lots of links here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/london-riots-brixton-editorial

[Supersedeas]

53. the framing of these riots is illustrative of the media's approach.

[Poll_Blind]

62. By destroying local shops, injuring local people who have nothing to do with "the rich", aren't...

...the riots framing themselves?

PB

[Supersedeas]

75. those are salient examples--but last I checked it only takes one arsonist to burn a shop

and only one thug to injure someone...it could be that there are others who are participating in the protests...('riots')...who are less violent and destructive yet more vocal, yet their voices are drowned out by the acts of these thugs.

Several English cities are all but shutdown, yet only 500 people have been arrested. Who are all the people who are in the streets, but who have not been arrested?

Do two teen girls speak for them all?

[bdamomma]

60. why doesn't someone explain to those girls that this

action of destruction is not how the rich got rich in the first place, and plus they struck out againist local shopkeepers, just coming at night like cockroaches total cowardice, destruction is not a way of proving your point.

[dkf]

8. I figured as much. Why this isn't the logical extension of "hate the rich" is beyond me.

[pintobean]

11. logical

Get drunk and destroy your neighborhood. That'll show 'em.

[dkf]

16. Looting and taking what you want...

[pintobean]

19. Thieves

[gkhouston]

31. Because they're wrecking their own neighborhoods?

:shrug: If this were "hate the rich" taken to the extreme, they'd be going after rich people and their belongings, not looting and trashing their own area. If "hate the rich" is the motive, what they're doing is equivalent to punching a wall instead of the person you're mad at. You'll need to fix your wall, may need to fix your hand, and the person you're mad at is unaffected.

[Hangingon]

42. It is a pain to carry your newly stolen TV all the way from

the rich neighborhood?

[gkhouston]

50. So getting the TV is what's important. Not harming the rich. n/t

[Hangingon]

68. Look at the current UK riots and our past riots. Yes it is the TV.

Appliance stores, liqour stores and athletic shoe stores are hard hit. We keep trying to make these events political when they are merely criminal. The mob only says it is after the rich, but the violence is in their home neighborhood. How many stores will never reopen in those areas?

[LanternWaste]

63. I imagine because violence is rarely the logical extension of anything...

"Why this isn't the logical extension of "hate the rich" is beyond me..."

I imagine because violence is rarely the logical extension of anything... :shrug:

[originalpckelly]

13. You give up on kids, they will give up on you.

And no one talks about why these two young ladies speak with that accent and not a higher class one, right?

I don't blame them for being angry, they live in a country, as do most in this world, where the rich hate the poor and even the middle class.

The anger they feel has its genesis in more normal situations of real concern. They may not be able to understand that anger, or why they are so forgotten about by the world, but they do feel the anger.

There are people in this world who think and then there are those who feel. And they now feel terrible. Those of us who think, we know why that is.

[Pooka Fey]

21. People need hope and justice - all of us but especially young people.

[pintobean]

26. What a load

:eyes:

[Ilsa]

29. I tend to agree with you. They are screwed and they know it.

They have no reason to behave. Their personal pride alone isn't going to get them ahead. They need help if they'll ever have hope of digging out of poverty.

[Chorophyll]

37. Oh B.S. They're no more screwed than you or me.

Less, in fact. Even with austerity, the UK provides better services than the US does on its best day.

This is mob mentality. They've forgotten why they're even doing it.

[Pooka Fey]

54. In case you didn't get the memo - you are very VERY screwed n/t

[Chorophyll]

69. Yep, I know that, boss.

Yet I'm not burning down my neighbors' homes or the corner convenience store in protest. We might still need someplace to live come winter. :eyes:

[Pooka Fey]

71. Good for you. Don't make a fuss, you don't want to disturb Congress or the President

with your little problems like paying for gas to get to work, or paying for your paren'ts medical bills and Rx's after Medicare gets cut.

[Chorophyll]

74. Wow, that was a great leap of logic.

Are you actually suggesting that in order to fix these problems I go out and burn the homes of my neighbors, who have the same burdens and struggles that I do?

What are you doing to change things today, other than arguing with me on DU?

And by the way, how dare you presume that I'm not upset with this President and this Congress? Just because I don't condone mindless violence? Are you typing from the front steps of the Capitol this morning?

[Pooka Fey]

76. You want to fight with me because I forced you to admit that you are politically screwed?

I'm not justifying the rioters. Only explaining what I think their mindset is. You cannot spend thirty years denying the concept of social responsibility and then act surprised when both banksters and council estate dwellers carry on like outlaws.

quoted by Lydia Leftcoast from "I was is the UK... thread" who sums up my feelings on the matter brilliantly

[Upton]

33. Give me a break..

they're nothing but a bunch of young punks taking advantage of the situation..

[gordianot]

14. This reminds me of the old David Bowie album "Diamond Dogs".

As bad as things are with radical theocratic politicians, domestic hostage takers we have not met (yet) with wholesale looting. On the other hand the new riot fad could cross the Atlantic.

[GliderGuider]

17. Isn't selective reporting great for catapulting the propaganda?

Just feed peoples' prejudices with carefully selected news items, and they'll fall into line every time.
:patriot:

[Poll_Blind]

18. No foolin:If you've got the interview with the Ghandis and the Kings of this movement, post it.

PB

[GliderGuider]

27. It's a series of riots, not a "movement". But here's something to support my position.

http://pennyred.blogspot.com/2011/08/panic-on-streets-of-london.html

Nobody has been watching Tottenham since the television cameras drifted away after the Broadwater Farm riots of 1985. Most of the people who will be writing, speaking and pontificating about the disorder this weekend have absolutely no idea what it is like to grow up in a community where there are no jobs, no space to live or move, and the police are on the streets stopping-and-searching you as you come home from school. The people who do will be waking up this week in the sure and certain knowledge that after decades of being ignored and marginalised and harassed by the police, after months of seeing any conceivable hope of a better future confiscated, they are finally on the news. In one NBC report, a young man in Tottenham was asked if rioting really achieved anything:

"Yes," said the young man. "You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?"

"Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you."

Eavesdropping from among the onlookers, I looked around. A dozen TV crews and newspaper reporters interviewing the young men everywhere.

There are communities all over the country that nobody paid attention to unless there had recently been a riot or a murdered child. Well, they’re paying attention now.

[Poll_Blind]

41. I'd seen that but it doesn't seem to reflect the senseless attacks on....

..the absolutely innocent individuals and property. That's the problem: The targets of this violence seem to have no relationship with the alleged goals of the person interviewed.

PB

[suffragette]

52. That's because riots usually aren't about goals, but about boiled over frustration,

anger, and hopelessness.

The above article fed into that feeling of helplessness in attempting to address perceived injustice. Poking around lately, I've noticed more of those recently, including this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4919924

Posted this yesterday, which provides some context, particularly the Guardian article, which is looking fairly prescient today:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4951732#4952850


Also agree with Pooka Fey and Bragi's posts.

[Pooka Fey]

20. Wow.

The Long Emergency.

[GliderGuider]

28. Yes indeed. JHK is a true social prophet. /nt

[chrisa]

22. All of this while ruining peoples' lives for their own personal and economic benefit.

Apparently irony is not a lost art these days.

[dionysus]

24. yep, burning down their own joint, that'll show those richy riches.

[QC]

25. Why aren't they burning down Mayfair, then?

Destroying their neighbors' homes is not hurting the rich.

[Poll_Blind]

30. Ding! Ding! Ding! Exactly.

PB

[QC]

49. Of course, there's always The City, London's Wall Street.

Lot of genuine oppressors there.

For poor people to destroy the property of other poor people, and beat and even kill other poor people, is not a blow against injustice.

[GliderGuider]

57. They're getting around to it. Just have a bit of patience... nt

[socialist_n_TN]

64. That's it Glider. These types of things CAN develope

organically into something MUCH more than random violence and looting. I think I feel an OP coming on. :)

[bigbrother05]

70. Watching the BBC news and reports that the High Street was protected

By police, so the mobs/riots moved into the poorer sections that were unprotected.

[QC]

77. That makes sense. Gotta protect the people who really matter, you know.

The same thing happens here in times of unrest.

[slackmaster]

80. Because they'd all be shot dead in the streets if they started burning Mayfair or Knightsbridge

Nobody is going to stop them from burning down their own neighborhoods.

[Pooka Fey]

32. You know what I think? The rich need to be shown this. Too bad they aren't paying attention, though

Unfortunately for the 2 drunk girls, they are too stupid to know that furniture store owners, even those who have maintained a family business for 5 generations, are not "the RICH".

Because girls from Croydon never SEE actual rich people, because no rich person would ever be caught dead in Croydon or its equivalent anywhere in the world, these girls destroyed the wrong target. They are destroying the remnants of middle class investment in their community who provided jobs to their neighbors. Oops....

That's the problem with revolution, even though it is as predictable and inevitable as day following night when the distribution of wealth gets as skewed as it currently is. The revolutionaries are angry and stupid and/or uneducated; however unlike the educated professional leftist, the revolutionary has the balls to take action - even wrong, misguided action. We are still debating how to rearrange deck chairs on the titanic, how much power do we weald? The revolutionary burns down a city - how much power does he weald?

This is all about POWER. And it ain't over.

[Poll_Blind]

36. +1

Your first two paragraphs are spot-on and the rest is painfully true.

PB

[Renew Deal]

34. Yes, they are showing the rich that they can burn down other poor peoples homes.

Brilliant!

[QC]

35. I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half -- Jay Gould, Robber Baron

[Renew Deal]

38. Ahhh, so it's a conspiracy

Very nice

[QC]

44. No, not at all.

Think so more and try again.

[Pooka Fey]

40. Which is why people were willing to die to create unions.

They knew they were staring at death either way. Either through being worked to death in appalling conditions and paid starvation wages, or by being killed by their bosses while organizing collectively to improve their lives and the lives of their community.

This community, Croydon, they have nothing left - no jobs, no future, inflation has sucked out all their purchasing power, no respect, no hope. And when they protest peacefully, the media ignored them. So they said, fuck it. And now, they have our attention. Good for them, I say. And, God help us, I say right afterwards.

[QC]

48. Yes, my grandfather was one of those United Mine Workers back in the 20s,

in the days when company goons with pick handles were brought in to beat strikers.

My point is that the working class has historically been more inclined to turn on one another than to take on the ruling class they way those early union organizers did. I would have a lot more sympathy if these rioters were in The City burning the banks, not stealing from other working people.

[Pooka Fey]

51. Rioters may yet reach central London. I have a feeling the REAL rich will get their taste of chaos.

The ruling class these days is much more sophisticated in its methods of suppressing dissent and crushing unions. They studied up on all the "mistakes" that were made that allowed working people to organize. Controlling the media is the cornerstone - with no print coverage it is next to impossible to reach the ears of the legislature. I could continue, but I'm sure you know all this already...

[QC]

59. Mayfair is pretty swanky. And it is the home of many of the City types

who helped bring the world economy to the brink of collapse and then loudly demanded their performance bonuses.

Lots of Bentleys and Aston Martins there to burn, instead of the old beaters we are seeing in the news photos.

[Amonester]

82. And the rich don't need to burn down poor people's homes to destroy

their lives? As in 'If you get sick, die quickly', even when they live IN THE SAME COUNTRY?

Why can the rich do everything they want to destroy the poor, exploit them, send them to die in wars for greed, unemploy them or fire them at will, keep them ignorant by flashing stupid TV shows and countless junk gimmicks? That is not 'burning their homes down' to make a 'killing' profit?

Just asking.

[Bragi]

39. "Riots are about power, and they are about catharsis"

You can rest assured that the wisdom (below) from a very bright young Londoner won't be highlighted on BBC:

http://pennyred.blogspot.com/2011/08/panic-on-streets-of-london.html

It's sad that the bulk of Duers appear to be aligned with the right-wing in refusing to acknowledge that while violent riots are indeed unacceptable, they are not necessarily devoid of political meaning.

[Pooka Fey]

47. Excellent blog post - worth the read from the vantage point of a real Londoner...

[GliderGuider]

55. Like you I'm amazed by the attitudes and opinions on display here today.

Frankly I expected a more thoughtful response in general. What I'm seeing instead is specks of individual sanity and understanding in a sea of conservative victim-blaming.

[Pooka Fey]

58. + 1 ;-)

[coalition_unwilling]

61. I'm sure the same cohort view the LA riots as little more than

black and Latino mindless opportunism. No matter that the friggin' Army had to be called in to restore order.

[laundry_queen]

65. You know, sometimes I sit and wonder

about why Americans are so complacent, so apathetic about their own social problems and corrupt government. I wonder why no one has risen up, why there are no protests. Then I read a thread like this and if this is how DU'ers - not even ordinary Americans but DU'ers - think then it's no wonder. The media has them too.

[laundry_queen]

67. Double post. nt

[Bragi]

78. A relevant tweet --- sigh

RT @stephie08: On the bright side, the #londonriots will help you identify which of your friends are closet fascists. Ever the optimist, I am. #ukriots

- B

[salin]

72. powerful blog post. Thanks for the link.

[meow mix]

43. i wish they could focus all this energy on an election. hell, form a tea-party. anything.

all this does is defeat your own intrests

[Poll_Blind]

45. Exactly. Anything other than burning down businesses in your own neighborhood.

PB

[Pooka Fey]

66. If you read the blog post by the London resident,

(post no. 39) you'll see that these people have been ignored by their government for 21 years. Another quote from one of the rioters states that they had thousands of protesters participate in a huge peaceful march to protest police brutality, if memory serves, and there was ZERO media coverage.

If you haven't noticed, the political power structure in the industrial world isn't very tuned in to the needs of the poor and working classes. So much so that they are CUTTING social services in the midst of the worst depression since 1929.

The whole point of these riots in that NOTHING ELSE WORKED.

[coalition_unwilling]

46. How about this, then, from today's NY Times:

Walking down Camden High Street with a black garbage bag over his shoulder, Tom Moriarty, a musician who lives in Camden, said the unrest had been caused by something “fundamental about how people feel. It’s down to life being a bit harder and people feel they’re not being heard.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/world/europe/10britain.html?pagewanted=2&hp

On edit: rioting has now reportedly spread to Notting Hill, a far more upscale neighborhood of London. I'm not from there, so relying on second-hand reporting.

[Poll_Blind]

56. It's too bad that out of that whole long article, they don't seem to explore...

...his sentiment nearly enough though the paragraph after it goes a little in the right direction.

PB

[lumberjack_jeff]

73. Sometimes, that's enough. n/t

[The Northerner]

79. K&R n/t

[NuttyFluffers]

81. "freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose..."

Janis Joplin had a real soulful voice. a tragedy we lost her so soon.

oh, look a new shiny object!