Self-deleted by member

[ensho]

This message was self-deleted and locked by ensho.

[OHdem10]

1. Putting out enough of these type stories creates an environment

in which it makes easy to cut Social Services and Medicaid.

[midnight]

2. Your comments unfortunately make too much sense.

Maybe someone can expose the real criminals that make it appear to be a crime to just walk down the street....

[vi5]

4. Ugh...you are not kidding....

Even my parents who when averaging out all of their opinions and stances on every issue out there, would probably fall on the moderate to left spectrum in total, fall for these stupid stories.

They hear this shit reported and then they regurgitate them as examples of how people behave in general. Not even in racial terms as much as socio-economic. I'm tired of having to research things and send them articles just to counter these types of stories.

[socialshockwave]

3. Unrec for unnecessary broad stereotyping of men.

"the male war against women continues - the darker the women the worse the war - world wide

the whiter the male the more they look away"

Contrary to some radical feminists, most men are not raping, evil thugs who want to beat women up.

[marmar]

5. "radical feminists"

:eyes:

[Supersedeas]

6. but the whiter they are....the more they are

[socialshockwave]

7. So.....by your logic, white men = thuggish rapists?

Huh. I must have to start changing how I act then.

I love DU, but the rampant misandry here does make me feel uncomfortable.

[Supersedeas]

11. it's not my logic...just following the steps laid in the OP

there's not only a sexist quotient, but also a pigment quotient.

when you add things up, no matter how open-minded a fair skinned Irish boy might be, he will always be a thuggist brute because he is male and he is about as white as you get.

[musette_sf]

12. riiiiight

"rampant misandry" at DU.

:wtf:

The dominant gender paradigm at DU is androcentric, and every DU feminist knows exactly what I am talking about.

Anyone who sees "rampant misandry" on DU has to be a militant MRA who sees "misandry" in any statement of FACT regarding male mistreatment of females.

Because if women speak up about the facts in events of mistreatment, grounded in millennia of patriarchal oppression, it's MISANDRY!! Oh Noes, What About Teh Menz!

:wtf:

[musette_sf]

9. take your hate speech elsewhere

Referring to "radical feminists" IS hate speech.

The Democratic platform supports full equality and civil rights for females.

If you have a problem with that, and if you actually think there IS such a thing as a "radical feminist", then you are in the wrong place here.

[EOTE]

14. Hate speech?

I'd say that suggesting that the whiter a man is, the more hostile he is to women of color is not only sexist, but racist as well. And yes, I'd consider that to be "radical feminism". If such a broadbrush attack were presented against women, it would be rightly condemned. But typically at DU it's ignored when it's directed toward men. Of course, if someone DOES speak up against it, they're labeled a misogynist or even worse things. So lots of men at DU receive the message loud and clear that they need to shut up when they see blatant misandry, lest they be slammed for it.

[Pithlet]

16. You're right.

THe men of DU should absolutely make sure to jump on it every time women aren't absolutely careful to couch everything they say to make sure they don't hurt anyone's feelings. That will help! I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous. I do think that men,white people, straits, whenever a person in the majority position, should cut some slack.

[EOTE]

18. Jump on it? We're slammed just for mentioning it.

It's so incredibly odd that DUers find sexism and racism to be so incredibly abhorrent. Unless, of course, that sexism or racism is directed toward a majority race or gender. Then it's to be applauded. It's ridiculous and it's incredibly hypocritical. But hey, if it makes you happy, go for it.

[Pithlet]

21. People who genuinely find sexism and racism to be abhorrent

usually don't go around and find opportunities to nit pick and say "Ah ha! You didn't say SOME men! You mysandrist" People who genuinely find racism abhorrent don't go around and find opportunities to say "Ah ha! You didn't say SOME white people. You racists!" If they genuinely cared, they'd understand.

[EOTE]

23. Are you saying that I don't find racism and sexism to be abhorrent?

Because I sure as hell do. And your logic is absolute bullshit. This wasn't a slyly, could-be-misinterpreted, covert attack on men. It said that all men are hostile toward women and that the whiter they are, the more hostile they are. That is 100% sexist, racist garbage. And apparently the fact that I mentioned that means that I don't care about racism and sexism? What bullshit.

[Pithlet]

24. Well...

:shrug:

[EOTE]

25. That's your response?

Blatant and sickening hypocrisy noted. It's nice to know that you're against certain types of sexism and racism. Funny thing is, everyone is. You're no different than anyone else. You're not on a noble mission, you're just a hypocrite.

[Pithlet]

26. I stand by it.

I don't think anyone who cares about racism or sexism kneejerks and sees it as an attack on themselves. Sorry. The only types of people I see reacting like that are never the types that are genuinely concerned about racism and sexism. Rush Limbaugh is a famous example. ETA and yes. Sometimes those who are speaking out don't always couch their language when speaking of those who are oppressing. But those who are listening who are on their side understand that. Like I said. I stand by what I said.

[EOTE]

28. So now I'm like Rush Limbaugh.

You're just filled with idiotic accusations today. You don't know a fucking thing about me. You need to stop playing armchair psychiatrist. I care a fuckload more about racism and sexism than you do because you think that racism toward white people is fine and dandy, and you think that only women can be the victims of sexism. You only give a damn about something if it effects you directly. Just like Rush Limbaugh.

[Pithlet]

31. If you cared

then why can't you understand the anger and the hatred of those being oppressed, and that some of the things they say might sound ugly, but that it still doesn't apply to you? Don't you have compassion? If you understand that oppression and that it exists, if you acknowledge it is there, then why doesn't it make sense that those who are expressing themselves might just be a little bit angry? See, it doesn't seem very sincere when you say you care, but then you aren't very understanding about it.

[EOTE]

33. I do understand, I've understood for quite some time.

But it's stupid to think that you can fight racism with more racism. Or sexism with more sexism. That's entirely counter-productive. The people engaging it do far more harm to their cause than good.

A great example of this is that riot that occurred in Wisconsin a few days back. Details are still sketchy, but it seems like a number of black youths went about trying to injure and scare as many white folks as they could. It was a horrible, unconscionable act. Does the racism that the black youths encountered in their lives do anything to excuse their actions? Not really. Were many here defending what they did simply because white racism against blacks is far more prominent? Not really. So it can't be defended.

I know that's a far more serious issue than simply saying that the whiter a man is, the more hostile he is toward women of color, but the principle is the same. Once again, racism is bad. Once again, sexism is bad. It doesn't matter to whom it's directed. If I see bullshit like that, I'm going to call it out. It doesn't matter what the gender or race of the person is.

On edit: missing words.

[Pithlet]

38. Whiter doesn't mean the color of his skin.

It's talking about his hostility toward people of color. The level of that hostility. All you're doing is "calling out" an awareness of oppression.

Details are sketchy on that riot? Right, but that's not going to stop you from judging what's going on there, is it.

[EOTE]

41. "Whiter doesn't mean the color of his skin"

Riiiight. It's about the type of car he drives. Are you fucking kidding me? That has got to be one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard.

And yes, the details are still sketchy on that riot. What is known now though is that dozens of black youths went about beating the shit out of a number of exclusively white people. I'll judge the fuck out of that. There is NO DEFENSE for that. Dear god, you can't be defending this shit. I'm having a hard time believing you're for real.

[Pithlet]

42. Yes. That's right. They don't mean it literally.

I'm sorry if that's too complicated for you.

Look, you yourself said "The details are sketchy" Why don't you provide a link to the story?

[EOTE]

43. "They"? Who the hell is "they"?

The comments were made by the OP, no one else. And yes, it was meant literally. Don't try to defend this sexist, racist garbage by now saying it's only metaphorical sexist, racist garbage. Christ that's dense. And I said "the details are sketchy" with regard to the Wisconsin incident. That had nothing to do with the bullshit posted by the OP. You've got some catching up to do.

[Pithlet]

44. You mean you think the OP mean the actual shade of skin?

Uh, no. They mean the level of oppression. White was used as a metaphor. Your insistence that pointing out that it's mainly white men that do the oppressing is racist and sexist garbage is baloney. Do all white men oppress? No. And the OP didn't actually say that if you really read what was said. Your response is kneejerk.

[EOTE]

46. How about you stop putting words into the OP's mouth.

It's absolutely asinine to think that the OP wasn't referring to skin color. You can try to wiggle out of this one for her, but she quite plainly stated her views. You going through all sorts of mental gymnastics isn't going to change that. Pathetic.

"the male war against women continues - the darker the women the worse the war - world wide

the whiter* the male the more they look away"

*By whiter, I simply mean the level of oppression, of course not their skin color as you might infer.

[Pithlet]

51. The OP is free to correct me if I misinterpreted her meaning.

But I honestly doubt she didn't mean they look away if their skin is literally paler, and they will suddenly gain some insight if they get a tan.

[EOTE]

53. Just as the OP was free to correct me.

But you're being willfully ignorant if you think that wasn't about skin color. And willfully ignorant is the absolute kindest term I could use here.

[EOTE]

48. And once again, who the hell is "they"?

This was a hateful, ignorant comment made by one individual. That you still can't figure this out is extremely telling.

[EOTE]

45. Why didn't you simply ask?

I'd have been more than happy to provide one. I thought for sure you'd have been informed on the story, especially if you had the unmitigated hubris to suggest that I was unnecessarily judging these black youths for beating the shit out of a large group of exclusively white people.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-647754
http://www.womenswatchinc.org/blog/black-youths-attackonly-whites-at-wisconsin-state-fair
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/08/violent-black-youth-mobs-beat-white-people-at-wi-state-fair-video/
http://www.businessinsider.com/race-war-heats-up-at-wisconsin-state-fairwait-the-race-war-2011-8

[Pithlet]

49. Oh, I see.

Yeah, typical roudy teens, and it's interpreted by some racist idiots as a race riot. That happens here, too. I see why you put that Ireport by that buffoon right at the beginning.

[EOTE]

50. Wow, you are really something special.

Hundred of people injured and it's "typical roudy(sp) teens". Yeah, the fact that all the perpetrators were black and all the victims were white had nothing to do with it. I gave you a bunch of links at random. Do you believe any of the information provided is inaccurate? Or do you simply want to excuse the violence that occurred? Dear god, just when I thought you couldn't become more of a caricature.

[Pithlet]

52. Yeah. Typical roudy teens.

The fact that you thing it's because they're black also confirms a lot of things.

[EOTE]

54. Dear god you are good at misinterpreting things.

I never said these youths committed this crime because they were black. The undeniable facts of this matter is that a group of exclusively black people committed these acts against a group of exclusively white people. You are dumber than a box of rocks if you can't see that's racially motivated. But then again, it wouldn't surprise me if you don't think this is racially motivated.

[Pithlet]

56. "I never said these youths committed this crime because they were black."

But, you just did! What else are you saying? You are very bad at communicating if that isn't what you're saying.

[EOTE]

57. They committed the crime because they're racist assholes, understand?

No, of course not. I'd actually be amazed if you were capable of reading something and actually learning from it. Really, dense is being far too kind.

[Pithlet]

63. Oh, sure. The fact that they're teens has nothing to do with it.

Look, the racists around here love to do this. I'm all too familiar with it. I'm sure in your case it's different. I'm not accusing you. But here? Every single time teenagers are rough, it's scary black youths being scary and mean to the whites! You're just an exception, I'm sure.

[EOTE]

65. This wasn't "rough", you're just far too blind to see that.

Dozens, perhaps hundreds of people had the shit kicked out of them. There were many, many injuries and a number of arrests as well. This is only "rowdy teens", in your mind that's incapable of any rationality. Yes, they were teens. And yes, teens are likely to do stupid shit. Would it make you feel better if I said "This is the fault of a bunch of racist teen assholes"? OK, now that's much better. They were racist, teenaged assholes. Got it? Nope. I'm clearly a racist for pointing this out. Dense.

[Pithlet]

70. Talk about dense. I'm not defending what they did.

I'm just not going to jump up and down and scream "Race Riot" because of some stupid CNN.com Ireport. Sorry. This goes exactly to the point of the OP. How what black people do and what white people do are completely perceived differently. Yes, people had the shit kicked out of them. That's very bad. But teens can be violent. It's happening here, too, especially since they're cutting services like after school programs and rec centers so kids have nowhere to go. THAT probably has more to do with it, see? Bet that Irporter didn't think of that, huh?

[EOTE]

71. Bullshit you're not defending them.

You've told me time and time again that it COULDN'T have happened that way. And that I'm surely being a racist by suggesting that all the teens were black. Sorry, you're wrong. More than wrong, you are completely incapable of learning. That you think this wasn't racially motivated goes beyond stupidity. Just like those honorable Klan members weren't racially motivated, they were just good ol' boys defending their land. I've provided a good half dozen links now and you can only comment on one of them. Clearly you believe this never happened. It was clearly a media manipulation, right?

It's got to hurt being inside that head of yours.

[EOTE]

73. "Typical roudy teens."

Yeah, that's not a defense. Typical rowdy teens are violent thugs who form mobs and beat the shit out of others. Yep, just typical roudy teens. And that's not a defense at all.

[EOTE]

55. And I thought I gave you a hint with "roudy(sp)".

I don't blame you for being ignorant, but you could at least learn from your mistakes.

[Pithlet]

58. Uh oh. Resorting to correcting spelling mistakes.

When you know you don't have an argument..

[EOTE]

59. Corrected on multiple occasions.

It was your inability to correct yourself when I kindly pointed it out that raises you to "willfully ignorant" as opposed to simply "ignorant".

[Pithlet]

61. Oh yeah. Point out spelling ability is a sure fire win. Whatever you say.

The fact that you showed yourself with the whole roving gang of black youths, oooh scary. I'm sure that had nothing to do with it.

[EOTE]

62. So you refuse to objectively look at facts?

Really shouldn't surprise me. Yes, we all know that black people are incapable of being racist assholes. Just as women are incapable of being sexist assholes. We're all quite aware of how you think, you don't need to tell us any more.

[Pithlet]

64. Oh, I'm the one who refuses to look at objective facts?

Like Ireports on CNN? Silly me.

[EOTE]

66. I gave you multiple links.

Here's a few more.

http://newsone.com/nation/jothomas/questions-continue-to-surface-on-wisconsin-state-fair-violence/
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/126828998.html

But I'm sure that the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal is just a racist piece of trash, right? And those videos? Clearly just digital manipulations.

You've gone well beyond dense and have entered pure caricature now. I would give up, but you're providing too much hilarity for me to quit. I have a hard time believing you're not a troll. But then again, I've met people who share your ignorance in real life.

[Pithlet]

72. Yes, multiple links

A couple that are straight up news stories that just give the facts. The rest are just like the iReport. Straight up hysterical OMGZ!!! Mob of black teeenzz!!

[EOTE]

74. And what are those facts?

You still haven't wrapped your head around those. Because if facts don't fit your preconceived world view, they don't exist in your mind. I presented the facts early on, you've refused to accept them. Facts and you are not friends.

[Pithlet]

77. I have a history on DU

of having the attitude of thinking our media overhypes these types of stories. You can look up my username if you wish. Teens have been doing this type of thing forever. It happens. It's a mob mentality. One starts something and then they all start in. I think you're using it here now for your own agenda in this thread.

[EOTE]

79. I'm doing it here to show you that people of any race can be racist assholes.

You clearly refuse to believe that. Even so far as to make the sickening accusation that I'm a racist. PATHETIC. My significant other and mother of my child is black. But because I'm not so much of an asshole to believe that a group of exclusively black teens attacking a group of exclusively white people is not racially motivated, somehow I'm a racist. I'm not a racist, you're just not a thinking person. Having the ability to think and reason gives one a big advantage in an argument.

[Pithlet]

80. And why do that?

Does anyone ever say that black people aren't assholes? No. Is the point Yeah, they're oppressed, but see, they're assholes, too? Because if that's your point, that's pretty bad. Either way, it's pointless.

[EOTE]

81. It was to address the stupid comment made by the OP, derp.

Not pointless, I was pointing out how stupid and counter-productive that comment was. Do we really need to go back to the beginning of this argument? Are you so incapable of following along that I need to hold your hand through this? Arguing with you would be pointless, if I didn't get such a big kick of watching you bury yourself.

[Pithlet]

82. You know, I wil concede that it was counter productive.

But I think it's sad that it has to be. It shouldn't have to be. We shouldn't have to fight the nit pickers who knee jerk like you.

[EOTE]

84. It was counter productive because it was sexist and racist.

Sorry if you think that having my entire gender and race slammed is a "nit pick". I happen to agree with everything the article points out. It was informative and I think it could be very helpful overall. The stupid comment by the OP was anything but. I'm sorry you felt the need to defend that sexist, racist bullshit for so long. Just like you defended those violent teens in Wisconsin. But hey, if defending the indefensible is your thing, I've got a shit load of stories for you.

[Pithlet]

85. Sorry if I'm not convinced n/t

[EOTE]

88. You should be apologizing for your racism and sexism.

But since that's not going to happen, I'll take the apology for not being able to follow or participate in an intelligent debate.

On edit: missing word.

[Pithlet]

90. Hmm

You come into a thread of someone talking about sexism and racism and chose to take umbrage at a comment tacked on the end instead of addressing the sexism and racism that you profess to care about. And for a bonus, you even point out that black people can be assholes! But I'm sexist and racist for pointing out that you should have addressed the sexism and racism that you profess to care about and ignored the comment. That's interesting.

[EOTE]

67. So, just to make sure I'm understanding you.

You don't believe this attack at the State Fair actually happened? Or that the racial makeup of the attackers or the victims was simply made up in order to make black people look bad? I just need some sort of insight into the wondrous logical gymnastics that must be going on inside your head right now. Just give me a little peek.

[EOTE]

60. And I've presented my argument quite plainly.

You've yet to do anything but flail your arms around and throw out baseless accusations of racism. Then, rather than reply with something even resembling logic, you take the fact that I need to correct your spelling mistakes and use that as a way of completely ignoring everything else I've said. But I don't blame you, if my logic were as shaky as yours, I'd do whatever I could to change the subject.

[Pithlet]

83. It isn't baseless.

I think someone who cares more that their identity was besmirched by that little comment tacked on at the end, well, I have to wonder how much they care. Sorry.

[EOTE]

86. Bullshit it wasn't baseless. You implied that I was a racist

because I said that a group of black teens beating up a group of exclusively white people was racially motivated. Baseless would be me suggesting that you utilized a modicum of logic in your arguments.

[Pithlet]

35. No. But I don't think suppressing those who want to do anything about it is, either, like you do.

White people as a whole group are to blame. Our society is. And if we get butt hurt every time someone doesn't word their articles exactly the way we want them to, then we are only part of the problem.

[EOTE]

37. If you blame a gender as a whole and a race as a whole for your problems.

Then you are part of the problem. Sorry you're butt hurt about that.

[Pithlet]

39. Yeah, that comment right there explains it all n/t

[Supersedeas]

32. you couldn't have said it more plainly

[musette_sf]

17. Do not agree

I see DU as a place where misogyny is tolerated, to a degree that is somewhat troubling to me, and I rationalize it by reminding myself that male privilege is eons-old and so entrenched in our society that I will have to fight the good fight for feminist thought until (probably) the day I die.

I DO think that any male who perceives a similar level of "misandry" on DU is making a mountain out of a molehill.

I would say you are using the false construct of "radical feminism", to come up with your (also false IMHO) assessment that the OP is saying something that I did not conflate in the same manner that you did.

[EOTE]

19. So misandry isn't tolerated? Racism isn't tolerated?

We hear that the whiter a male is, the more hostile he is toward women of color, a statement that is both incredibly racist and sexist, and we're slammed for speaking out against it. So, that blatant misandry and sexism is tolerated, yet you can only bring of the misogyny which is oddly lacking from this thread.

Fight the good fight, I'm all for that. But to ignore the obvious misandry here does make you a bit of a hypocrite. If you feel that misandry is fine and misogyny needs to be addressed, you should be honest about that position.

[musette_sf]

27. "ignore the obvious misandry here"??????

You have GOT to be kidding.

So, so many of the things that are said here about women, were they said about people of color in general, or about gay people in general, would be deleted post-haste, and the offending poster TS'd post-haste.

My personal opinion on what some call "misandry", is that those who have enjoyed millennia of gender privilege built on the foundation of gender oppression, may experience some degree of unfamiliarity and discomfort upon the balancing of the scales. But the (male) privilege has been SO dominant up until the last 50 or so years of history, and the (female) oppression has been SO complete up until the last 50 or so years of history, that I fail to see how there is any equivalency between thousands of years of institutionalized misogyny, and the perception some men have of "misandry" in the last 50 years or so since women have begun to be fully actualized human citizens of the world.

I don't get how some DU males can totally understand the historical oppression of people of color, and of gays, but when it comes to the historical oppression of females, they get all defensive and start with the "misandry" bit. Can we please have some of that empathy and compassion too? You can understand it if people of color have anger about their oppression, you can understand it when gays have anger about their oppression... but when women have anger about THEIR oppression - "MISANDRY!!!"

[EOTE]

30. It's right there in the OP.

I don't need to go digging up any examples because it's right there. And you obviously don't give a fuck about it. Because sexism is only bad if it effects women. And racism is never bad if it's against white people, especially white males. It's misandry because it's hateful, broadbrush rhetoric. But hey, if it makes you feel good, it can't be all that bad, rigth?

[musette_sf]

34. WHAT "is right there in the OP"??

The OP said:

"the male war against women continues - the darker the women the worse the war - world wide

the whiter the male the more they look away"

Have you been paying any attention AT ALL to the legislative War On Women in the US? Are you aware that these proposed sanctions on reproductive health care will disproportionately affect impoverished women, and particularly women of color? And THAT'S just in the US.

The OP stated a FACT. I'm thinking that I expect DU men to want to be part of the solution - not act like a bunch of MRA whingers.

[EOTE]

36. That, right there. What you quoted.

Of course I've been paying attention. And the legislated War on Women isn't being fought exclusively by males, it's being fought exclusively by REPUBLICANS, teabaggers in particular. Hell, a lot of this bullshit, anti-women legislation is being brought up by women themselves.

To say that this is strictly a result of men and that the whiter the male is the more complicit they are is sexist, racist bullshit. I don't expect you to see it as such, because you don't believe that men can be the victim of sexism. Or that white people can be the victim of racism. You're blind to it and think it doesn't exist. I don't know what an MRA whinger is, but I can say that you're just as ignorant as those you slam.

[ensho]

10. white men hold all the power in the world, why don't they stop the raping?

why?

[EOTE]

15. You're right... let me get right on that.

Oh wait, white men aren't a colossal monolith, they're composed of people from myriad backgrounds and are unique individuals. Once again, not a monolith. Is that so difficult to understand? What an incredibly offensive question to ask.

[lumberjack_jeff]

22. It's on my list of things to do, okay?

Right after fixing this toilet and killing the spiders.

[Romulox]

40. This is like a cartoon character. nt

[ATLdemocrat]

69. Because

As you said, "the whiter they are, the more they look away."

[Pithlet]

13. Other than picking that nit, how did you feel about the piece?

Do you think it's "Radical Feminism" to feel anger about that problem and want to change it? Which problem do you think is more pressing? The "Radical Feminists" and how they feel about white men? Or the injustices being faced by these mothers?

[KamaAina]

87. Why not just go ahead and call them "feminazis"?

Nice post, Rush. :sarcasm:

[raccoon]

8. K&R. nt

[slackmaster]

20. Unrec for needless misandry in comments added by OP author

:nuke:

[dionysus]

29. the article is fine, your comments at the end are a "bigotry event".

[Shandris]

47. This article is about race. It is UNQUESTIONINGLY about race.

White women in similar situations are not being exposed to this kind of persecution. As such, the comments by the OP at the end about males and white males is simply flamebait -- the article is about black women, and treatment at the hands of white PEOPLE. That includes you, white woman, unless virtually every judge and prosecutor in America suddenly became male while I was asleep last night.

Don't flamebait then expect for the article to be discussed; you're detracting from black women's LEGITIMATE complain, as presented by the article, by attempting to co-opt it for your own political goals. I'm on your side when the discussion needs to be focused on a purely female perspective; I'm not when you're co-opting another person's plight for your own.

The last statement, however, is so demonstrably silly as to be relegated to Beck-esque territory and as such, I'm going to assume it was a poor attempt at humor, or perhaps a hallucination.

[ATLdemocrat]

68. "The whiter the male the more they look away"?

And you wonder why more men don't care about feminism?

[Celeborn Skywalker]

75. Fuck your racist/sexist "editorial" at the end

[Hosnon]

76. Alerted for your ridiculous little commentary at the end. And by the way,

excellent job of distracting from the article. You did it and its topic a great disservice.

[Liberal_in_LA]

78. k&r

[kiva]

89. An interesting article,

a foolish, flamebait ending.