He's not weak. He's not overwhelmed. He's not just lacking a Democratic Congress.

[woo me with science]

He is a Third Way Democrat, with the interests of banks and corporations in mind. Like all Third Way Democrats, he differs from Republicans mainly on some social issues. His economic vision is essentially the same.

Make no mistake about it: His goals for the economy and the wars are essentially identical to those of the Republicans.

[area51]

1. Obama really needs to fess up & officially join the repub party. n/t

[kath]

10. Yep, I wish he would resign and do that. "I shall not seek, and I will not accept..."

Freakin' Trojan Horse.
Let a REAL Democrat run for the spot.

[bluethruandthru]

47. +100000 n/t

[on point]

97. 1000+

[Vanje]

79. +1 nt

[colorado_ufo]

86. Why would he do that . . .

when he can more effectively promote their agenda as a Democrat?

Methinks we have been infiltrated.

[Davis_X_Machina]

2. Which is exactly why the Republicans...

...have become unhinged in their opposition to him.

[Vincardog]

4. They always protest you are doing exactly what they are doing

it is called projection. How could they encourage Obama to promote the Banksters agenda? That might cost him some democratic support.

[Davis_X_Machina]

11. This projection-based opposition is of course completely different

...from what they do, when you attempt to do something they don't want done -- namely ordinary opposition.

Which is different.

[meow2u3]

82. Let me reword this for you. You have a point, but...

The projection motto goes like this: they always protest and/or throw a tantrum when you're doing out in the open exactly what they're doing behind closed doors.

[Lorien]

40. They "protest" him in the exact way that they "protest" the so called Liberal Media

and the end result is the same: both move further to the hard right. The repugs are just offering them cover to do so.

[enough]

3. Which is why he was permitted to win the presidential election in the first place. (nt)

[defendandprotect]

54. +1000% --- the corporations give us the candidates they want us to vote for -- !!

[tavalon]

64. Yep

Mouseland.

http://www.saskndp.ca/mouseland

We are well and truly screwed and we need to be thinking outside the box.

[Jim_Shorts]

102. I couldn't agree with you more, we have to think outside the box

I have one: we divide the country in half at the Mississippi, let those stupid as hell people who want rule, of, by, and for the corporation, with no health care, SS, medicare or fire departments and bought off politicians live together. We can take the other side thats of, by, and for the people.

Here's the video of mouseland : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqpFm7zAK90

[suffragette]

112. Yep, Mouseland it is.

Great example.

[tridim]

5. No, Obama does not want to destroy the economy to make himself lose in 2012.

Woo me with Third Way(r) DERP.

[Myrina]

94. Not possible to lose when Diebold counts the votes.

n/t

[jaxx]

6. Unrec

Conspiracies have no place in the real world.

[tridim]

8. +1

I wish there was a "Tinfoil hat conspiracy theory. Embarassing to DU." checkbox on the alert page.

[tk2kewl]

13. What conspiracy did the OP refer to?

Have you not seen the Democratic Party's economic policy move continuously rightward since 1980?

K&R for the OP

[jaxx]

21. This one as an example:

His goals for the economy and the wars are essentially identical to those of the Republicans.

All conspriacy, along with ridiculous. The President is a Democrat.

[tk2kewl]

23. What has he done to demonstrate that his goals for the economy of the wars are different?

He said last week that it is not the governments place to create jobs. Seems pretty republican to me. Gitmo, Iraq, Afghanistan, warrant-less searches; how has he approach to these things deviated from the previous admin?

He seems well right of what I consider to be the center - Democrat or not.

[jaxx]

25. You'll need to read what he has said.

We have posted it many, many times and it's been ignored while wild untruths are spread as gospel. It's futile to argue with those who prefer a good conspiracy.

[tk2kewl]

27. To me there is a big difference betwen what one says and what one does.

nt

[KittyWampus]

107. And who got Bin Laden thereby getting a cache of intelligence that'll help curtail violence?

[OnyxCollie]

115. If you're willing to believe the story we "got" bin Laden

(no body, no pictures) with only his alleged DNA for proof.

Maybe DNA from another family member, or DNA obtained from another time?

CIA organised fake vaccination drive to get Osama bin Laden's family DNA
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/11/cia-fake-vaccinations-osama-bin-ladens-dna

The vaccination plan was conceived after American intelligence officers tracked an al-Qaida courier, known as Abu Ahmad al-Kuwaiti, to what turned out to be Bin Laden's Abbottabad compound last summer. The agency monitored the compound by satellite and surveillance from a local CIA safe house in Abbottabad, but wanted confirmation that Bin Laden was there before mounting a risky operation inside another country.

DNA from any of the Bin Laden children in the compound could be compared with a sample from his sister, who died in Boston in 2010, to provide evidence that the family was present.

~snip~

A nurse known as Bakhto, whose full name is Mukhtar Bibi, managed to gain entry to the Bin Laden compound to administer the vaccines. According to several sources, the doctor, who waited outside, told her to take in a handbag that was fitted with an electronic device. It is not clear what the device was, or whether she left it behind. It is also not known whether the CIA managed to obtain any Bin Laden DNA, although one source suggested the operation did not succeed.

Here's another story you'll love: Iraq was involved in 9/11.

Panetta appears to link al-Qaeda presence with Iraq invasion
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/national-security/panetta-echoes-bush-comments-linking-iraq-invasion-to-war-on-al-qaeda/2011/07/11/gIQA3m3h8H_story.html?hpid=z2

BAGHDAD — Defense Secretary Leon Panetta on Monday appeared to justify the U.S. invasion of Iraq as part of the war against al-Qaeda, an argument controversially made by the Bush administration but refuted by President Obama and many Democrats.

Panetta made his remarks during his his inaugural visit to Iraq as Pentagon chief. Speaking to about 100 soldiers at Camp Victory, the largest U.S. military installation in Baghdad, he said his primary goal as defense secretary was to defeat al-Qaeda worldwide.

“The reason you guys are here is because on 9/11 the United States got attacked,” Panetta told the troops. “And 3,000 Americans — 3,000 not just Americans, 3,000 human beings, innocent human beings — got killed because of al-Qaeda. And we’ve been fighting as a result of that.”

[EFerrari]

33. It's no "wild untruth" if it comports with his behavior in office, is it?

It's not even a conspiracy theory. It's observation.

[swilton]

81. What he says and what he does are mutually exclusive -

You can't defend what he does by what he says he wants to do - just look at the differences between what he said when he campaigned and what he did in office.

[liberation]

41. So what you are trying to say is that the term "conspiracy" does not mean what you think it does

no need to run around so many circles to simply say that...

[tomp]

51. wow. you are truly lame.

so wrong on so many levels:

truth: he has a d after his name, making him a democrat. your inference is that having a d after your name is the same as being a friend of the people and is some evidence of not having sold out to the rich. mere history debunks such drivel both of obama in particular and the democratic party in general.

truth: conspiracy: two or more people acting in concert. it is not inherently a bad thing. you apparently don't have available memory for more than one aspect of the meaning of the word. obama by his own admission on multiple occasions has called for exactly this. he is acting in concert (conspiring) with the republicans, apparently as a matter of fundamental orientation.

truth: one can assert anything. that does not make it true. you have done nothing to prove your assertion. that, and the above we of substantial IQ call "lame" which is short for lame ass motherfucking bullshit.

[roguevalley]

89. since he's kept the tax cuts, done nothing about the criminals

that put us here, is willing to 'help' biz over people with more cuts, etc, passed a debt ceiling without tax raises on ANYONE but us, cut WIC and other safety nets, proposed cutting Medicare and SS ala G. W, kept two wars going and started another, didn't close Guantanamo ... etc. ... tell me where the 'conspiracy' is? If anyone is dreaming here, it isn't the one you are blasting. Look in the mirror, kiddo.

[OnyxCollie]

90. How 'bout this conspiracy?

Obama called on the former general chairman of the RNC to stop Spain's investigation of US torture crimes.

WikiLeaks: How U.S. tried to stop Spain's torture probe
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/12/25/105786/wikileaks-how-us-tried-to-stop.html

MIAMI — It was three months into Barack Obama's presidency, and the administration -- under pressure to do something about alleged abuses in Bush-era interrogation policies -- turned to a Florida senator to deliver a sensitive message to Spain:

Don't indict former President George W. Bush's legal brain trust for alleged torture in the treatment of war on terror detainees, warned Mel Martinez on one of his frequent trips to Madrid. Doing so would chill U.S.-Spanish relations.

US embassy cables: Don't pursue Guantánamo criminal case, says Spanish attorney general
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH

6. (C) As reported in SEPTEL, Senator Mel Martinez, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, met Acting FM Angel Lossada during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 15. Martinez and the Charge underscored that the prosecutions would not be understood or accepted in the U.S. and would have an enormous impact on the bilateral relationship. The Senator also asked if the GOS had thoroughly considered the source of the material on which the allegations were based to ensure the charges were not based on misinformation or factually wrong statements. Lossada responded that the GOS recognized all of the complications presented by universal jurisdiction, but that the independence of the judiciary and the process must be respected. The GOS would use all appropriate legal tools in the matter. While it did not have much margin to operate, the GOS would advise Conde Pumpido that the official administration position was that the GOS was "not in accord with the National Court." Lossada reiterated to Martinez that the executive branch of government could not close any judicial investigation and urged that this case not affect the overall relationship, adding that our interests were much broader, and that the universal jurisdiction case should not be viewed as a reflection of the GOS position.

Judd Gregg, Obama's Republican nominee for Commerce secretary, didn't like the investigations either.

US embassy cables: Don't pursue Guantánamo criminal case, says Spanish attorney general
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH

4. (C) As reported in REF A, Senator Judd Gregg, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, raised the issue with Luis Felipe Fernandez de la Pena, Director General Policy Director for North America and Europe during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 13. Senator Gregg expressed his concern about the case. Fernandez de la Pena lamented this development, adding that judicial independence notwithstanding, the MFA disagreed with efforts to apply universal jurisdiction in such cases.

Why the aversion? To protect Bushco, of course!

US embassy cables: Spanish prosecutor weighs Guantánamo criminal case against US officials
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/200177

The fact that this complaint targets former Administration legal officials may reflect a "stepping-stone" strategy designed to pave the way for complaints against even more senior officials.

Eric Holder got the message.

Holder Says He Will Not Permit the Criminalization of Policy Differences
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7410267&page=1

As lawmakers call for hearings and debate brews over forming commissions to examine the Bush administration's policies on harsh interrogation techniques, Attorney General Eric Holder confirmed to a House panel that intelligence officials who relied on legal advice from the Bush-era Justice Department would not be prosecuted.

"Those intelligence community officials who acted reasonably and in good faith and in reliance on Department of Justice opinions are not going to be prosecuted," he told members of a House Appropriations Subcommittee, reaffirming the White House sentiment. "It would not be fair, in my view, to bring such prosecutions."

CIA Exhales: 99 Out of 101 Torture Cases Dropped
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/06/cia-exhales-99-out-of-101-torture-cases-dropped/

This is how one of the darkest chapters in U.S. counterterrorism ends: with practically every instance of suspected CIA torture dodging criminal scrutiny. It’s one of the greatest gifts the Justice Department could have given the CIA as David Petraeus takes over the agency.

Over two years after Attorney General Eric Holder instructed a special prosecutor, John Durham, to “preliminar(ily) review” whether CIA interrogators unlawfully tortured detainees in their custody, Holder announced on Thursday afternoon that he’ll pursue criminal investigations in precisely two out of 101 cases of suspected detainee abuse. Some of them turned out not to have involved CIA officials after all. Both of the cases that move on to a criminal phase involved the “death in custody” of detainees, Holder said.

But just because there’s a further criminal inquiry doesn’t necessarily mean there will be any charges brought against CIA officials involved in those deaths. If Holder’s decision on Thursday doesn’t actually end the Justice Department’s review of torture in CIA facilities, it brings it awfully close, as outgoing CIA Director Leon Panetta noted.

“On this, my last day as Director, I welcome the news that the broader inquiries are behind us,” Panetta wrote to the CIA staff on Thursday. “We are now finally about to close this chapter of our Agency’s history.”

[bvar22]

98. It doesn't take a "Conspiracy Theory" to explain

...that CitiBank and MNBA both have the same goals,
and BOTH support the same government policies.
They even "compete" for the same voters customers,
and are rivals,
but BOTH very much want the same thing.

They BOTH highlight very minor differences to attract more voters customers,
and each would like YOU to believe there is a World of Difference between them,
but there isn't...Same shit, different bag.

SEE how EASY that is to understand?
All you have to do is open your eyes!
No "Conspiracy Theories",
no wild stretches of the imagination,
just another Uniquely American Solution.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[elocs]

14. DU is not the real world and conspiracies are welcomed and worshiped here. n/t

[WorseBeforeBetter]

22. Funny how DU rejected "Saddam has WMDs" while clueless real-world Americans...

fully embraced the bull$hit they were being fed.

That's just one of MANY examples. I'll stick with DU.

[elocs]

24. Me too, but I just don't confuse this with being the real world.

The DU Alternate Universe is eminently more desirable because all you need to do is to wish or fantasize something and it will happen.

The answer for those unhappy with Obama: just primary him and "woosh" it's all better.

In the DU Alternate Universe you may also wish for Kucinich or Sanders to be our nominee and president because wishing for it is all that is need for it to happen. It's great when you don't have to deal with the pesky details of reality.

[EFerrari]

34. There are people who think well or think badly everywhere

not only at DU. Your theory of DU doesn't really resemble as much as it does the general population. :)

[defendandprotect]

56. Every poster here lives in the real world ... you're just angry about the push to primary Obama ...

what did you expect based on his pro-corporate political decisions?

That he'd be embraced by the electorate ?

The nation wants both parties overturned -- !!

Obama may insist on hanging around -- but it will further hurt the party

as we saw in 2010 --

[Warren Stupidity]

69. So you agree that there was in fact a conspiracy to deceive the american public

regarding the reasons for going to war in Iraq, but all those other allegations of conspiracies are woo-woo bullshit?

hmmmm....

Anyway there is no secret conspiracy, the corrupt plutocratic duopoly operates right out in the open.

[kenfrequed]

91. So...

We are fantasy prone because we didn't accept the machine gun of lies coming out of the Bush administration? Or is this just a random broadside against progressives here that were by some wild coincidence correct about Iraq (as well as a few dozen other situations and policies.)

Basically if you think we are factually right then stop standing in front of us and babbling about what you think is realistically possible and get behind us to make our voices stronger. If you do not think we are right than just say so factually and intelligently minus the absurd ad hominems and insults.

[defendandprotect]

55. +1000%

[Vanje]

80. + 1 nt

[KittyWampus]

106. DU was convinced we were attacking Iraq for years. DU is more wrong than right.

[Raksha]

29. Gawd, I'm so sick of people demonizing the plain truth by calling it "conspiracy theory."

Us "conspiracy theorists" are only believing our own lying eyes and calling it like we see it. You know, "if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck..." etc.

[defendandprotect]

57. As though RW Koch Bros funded DLC and criminal corps like Pfizer and Chevron joining in ...

weren't conspiratorial moves to infiltrate the Dem Party and influence

its agenda and its candidates?

How many of us knew about this over 20 years?

[liberation]

42. I take strawmen are more of your liking, then?

[Ikonoklast]

45. I see they got to you, too.

:scared:

[paulk]

18. where is the "conspiracy"?

The "Third Way", the "New Dems", the DLC - these centrist organizations all have stated goals - and websites

Many of these goals/policies are in line with conservative philosophy and are opposed to liberal ideas.

These are facts, not conspiracies.

[Warren Stupidity]

70. yeah but something, plus you must be a bad person, or insane

or a troll.

[pa28]

49. A "conspiracy theory" and a "theory" are different things.

Calling these ideas a "conspiracy theory" is a good way to tar the OP however.

[webDude]

83. Now who is blind? Google "operation mockingbird".

[kenfrequed]

88. So...

Voting in accordance with the wishes of your campaign contributors is a "conspiracy theory"? I think your threshold for calling something a "conspiracy theory" is absurdly low, or you are merely using it as an illogical method to attack or dismiss a statement.

Do you use a similar accusation of "conspiracy theory" when any politician takes large corporate donations and then happens to vote their way?

[frylock]

101. no, they dont. but they exist nonetheless..

to deny they do really helps to explain your mindset.

[blindpig]

7. That is essentially correct.

k&r

[Autumn]

9. Recommended, that's the way it is

Kick

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

58. Obama is quite fond of negotiating in back rooms -- Sen. Reid commented he had no info -- !!

[Warren Stupidity]

71. More Cowbells! Bigger Fonts!

**********BASHERS IGNORE CRAZY CONGRESS BLAME OBAMA FOR EVERYTHING************

Wouldn't that be better?

[letmedrinkuin]

73. Bashers Ignore Crazy Congress?

Did you forget that Obama was elected with a fillibuster-proof majority in congress and did nothing while members of his own party (of which he is the head) negotiated, negotiated and stalled.

The problem IS Obama!

He is not a leader!

He refuses to take a stand on anything!

He defers everything to Pelosi & Reid.

He introduces no legislation.

He does not take Dems to the woodshed for not getting into line behind Dem bills.

He had his chance and he blew it.

We worked hard to put him there and to give him massive majorities in Congress. He went golfing and partying.

[kenfrequed]

116. OK

I agreed with the original OP but not with you.

He did not have a fillibuster proof majority in the senate when he was elected. 60 was the magic number to get cloture on a fillibuster and he did not have that until much later.

He had the most obstructionist congressional minority in American history AND he had that traitor Evan Bayh and his bloody blue dog caucus stabbing him in the back before he even took the oath of office. People forget that second part an awful friggin lot.

Now I do believe the President Obama sold out too much, and if you listen to what he says these days he does sound fairly conservative, and I believe he needs to be pressured like crazy back to the left. The cheerleader squad here does a poor job at getting him moved away from the right by defending him from EVERYTHING! I think we should definitely defend him from the right, but defending him from reasoned and reasonable critiques is stupid and counterproductive.

[Marrah_G]

85. Maybe someday you will stop viewing Politics as a sporting event.

Your post is a prime example of what happens when people get so infatuated with a team and/or player that they lose all perspective of what is right and what is wrong.

[Ignis]

117. ***S***T***A***R***S***

[Sarah Ibarruri]

15. I'm sorry, but if every time a president doesn't have a majority in Congress, he goes catatonic...

we may as well not have a president.

Republican presidents, when they don't have a majority in Congress, do NOT go catatonic. They appeal to their base.

[letmedrinkuin]

74. Agree

Most presidents make do with what they have.

Reagan worked with a Dem House.

Clinton worked with a Repub Congress.

Obama was given a fillibuster-proof majority and did not lift a finger to get legislation passed! He gave speeches, but, as head of the party, he did not take members to the woodshed and get them in line.

We could have had EVERYTHING in Obama's first few months...single payer, cap-&-trade, card-check, etc, etc, etc.

Instead, we now have nothing and a weak man takes months to negotiate with himself.

[Cosmocat]

95. Seriously?

here on planet earth - he went against the advice of his key political advisors to tackle HCR, and did what no president in nearly half a century was able to do, and get HCR passed, and took MASSIVE policial hits for doing it.

And, because this is a democracy, not a dictatorship, he BARELY was able to have congress get it passed, and as such got as much out of it as possible. Major financial reform.

WTF is wrong with people here ...

[bvar22]

104. Seriously?... YES!!!

"Johnson was the catalyst, the cajoler in chief. History records him as the nation's greatest legislative politician. In a great piece on the Daily Beast website, LBJ aide Tom Johnson, writes about how his old boss would have gotten a health care reform bill through the current congress. It's worth reading to understand the full impact of the "Johnson treatment" and how effective LBJ could be in winning votes for his legislation."

http://thejohnsonpost.blogspot.com/2009/08/johnson-treatment.html

Can you imagine wimpy Joe Lieberman stamping his foot telling LBJ, "NO!!! I'm NOT going to support your Health care Plan?"
:rofl:

Many on this site will tell you that the Presidency is weak and powerless, and can only do what Congress lets him do.
THAT is a pathetic excuse...and just plain BULLSHIT!!!!

"Strong and successful presidents (meaning those who get what they want - whether that happens to be good for the country or not) do not accept "the best deal on the table". They take out their carpentry tools and the build the goddam piece of furniture themselves. Strong and successful presidents do not get dictated to by the political environment. They reshape the environment into one that is conducive to their political aspirations."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/07/17

"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[AlabamaLibrul]

127. This phone call is a good look into how LBJ would have handled Wimpy Joe

It's also just damn hilarious in that Johnson sort of way.

http://whitehousetapes.net/clip/lyndon-johnson-albert-thomas-albert-thomas-gets-johnson-treatment

[Sarah Ibarruri]

119. What's wrong is that we don't want him ignoring his base and preferring to be friendly with

Republicans.

Our country is dying and he's trying to sing friendly songs to the Repukes.

[OnyxCollie]

120. "Our country is dying and he's trying to sing friendly songs to the Repukes."

NADER MADE HIM DO IT!!!

:rofl:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

121. No, can't blame Obama's behavior on Nader. Nader only got GW Bush elected. That seems small to you

Of course. Being a naderite and all...

[OnyxCollie]

123. "Nader only got GW Bush elected."

So, can we blame the Democratic party for failing to prevent everything since Bush got elected, or do you have someone else you'd like to blame?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

124. Fact is, Nader is a pig. nt

[OnyxCollie]

128. Nader Derangement Syndrome. nt

[Cosmocat]

125. Look ...

I get it, seriously ...

The taxes issue is THE core issue that defines us vs them, and I was sorely disappointed when he let the fight, rigged to his advantage, go away last December.

But, again, he has done a lot more good than bad, and the other team is 100 percent united in firing bullets into him, with the MSM as their shotgun. Even if our team is fully behind him, it is no sure bet he can get back in 2012.

And, whether people here get it or not.

2012 is either going to Barrack Obama or Mitt Romney/Rick Perry ...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

118. And he could've used his base that propelled him to the presidency, to get us to campaign for

anything he wanted.

Instead, he held out his hand to shake the hands of those who called him an Muslim, who called him foreign-born, who posted cartoons insulting his race, etc. etc. etc.

[Democrats_win]

16. Yes, but, he should have worked MUCH harder when he had this congress.

Congress should have been running 24/7!! You know, like the rest of us poor suckers.

[Solomon]

44. It was.

Believe or not.

[defendandprotect]

59. Obama resurrected GOP from the ashes -- and threw away his mandate --

was that by accident?

[harun]

96. It wasn't by accident, it was for campaign contributions for ALL!!!

[tpsbmam]

17. No, he's lacking a Democratic mindset. nt

[progressoid]

61. Yep. n/t

[letmedrinkuin]

76. No, Obama Lacks Leadership!

Obama is the leader of the party. When he had the fillibuster-proof majority and a mandate that we busted our butts to give him, he could have taken a few blue dogs to the woodshed and let them know how things are going to be.

But, instead of rolling up his sleeves and fighting, he went golfing and threw parties at the WH while the majorities were frittered away.

Now we are left with a lousy healthcare bill and nothing much to show for all the effot we put into restoring the Dems.

[newspeak]

113. you're wrong when you say he deferred to Reid and Pelosi

He deferred to repugs, the same repugs who got us into this financial mess in the first place. If you want to talk about parties, Little Boots spent most of his time on vacation; as a matter of fact, he was at the pig farm when he was given the august PDB report, you know the one that stated OBL to attack the US. And what was his response? something like "okay, you've done your job, you delivered it." You should be happy that Obama retained some of Little boot's retreads. It sure shocked the hell out of me.

You can go back into DU history and see the statements about Iraq, about the spiraling financial trend and unemployment under Little Boots. There's no vast conspiracy, it was all for people to see. Just because a majority of americans want to still pretend they're in lalaland doesn't make the truth go away. Hell, Little Boots attempted to define flipping burgers as manufacturing jobs-just that desperate.

[immoderate]

19. Rec -- maybe it's not 11 dimentional chess.

You got it, woo.

There's a similar eval from JK Galbraith here. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/08/08-4

--imm

[dmosh42]

20. Biggest problem is his lack of conviction, and vision. Great bullshitter!

[krabigirl]

26. ? He had a Democratic congress for two years. nothing happened.

face it, he is a moderate neoconish Republican.

[BumRushDaShow]

31. " He had a Democratic congress for two years. nothing happened."

Because of ilk like Max Baucaus, Joe LIEberman, Mary Landrieu, Blanche Lincoln, and on and on....

DU loves to ignore the REAL DLC/Third-Way folks while triangulating nonsensical arguments back to Prez. Obama. :crazy:

[Maven]

36. He backed Blanche Lincoln in her primary against Bill Halter.

Try again.

HE IS THE PROBLEM.

[disillusioned73]

52. I was about to type that myself...

and don't forget.. the unions backed Bill Halter. That really got under my skin at the time.

[liberation]

43. And you love to ignore the fact that a big number of members of his administration belong to the DLC

You guys doth wanting to have it both ways too much me thinks...

[bvar22]

108. So you DO admit that the MAIN problem we are facing is NOT the Republican Party.

Our MAIN Problem is within the Democratic Party,
and until we address THAT problem, we will have no "CHANGE", only more of the same?
Is THAT your position?


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone

photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed


"By their WORKS you will know them."



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Davis_X_Machina]

32. No living person, certainly no one under 70, has ever seen a Democratic Congress...

...in their adult life.

Because while there are two labels, there are three -- formerly four -- parties in Congress

Democrats who are Democrats,
Democrats who are Republicans.
Republicans who are Republicans.

(There used to be quite a few Republicans who are Democrats when I was a lad, but they’re extinct.)

Welcome to the joys of coalition government. A coalition President is the inevitable result.

[Karmadillo]

28. Good points. Time to work on finding that primary candidate.

nt

[fascisthunter]

30. I Agree

[chill_wind]

35. K & R. n/t

[JDPriestly]

37. Sad but true.

[GeorgeGist]

38. Smells Republican.

[Lorien]

39. What social issues? nt

[woo me with science]

46. Good point.

I am assuming he is still pro-choice.

[Raine]

48. Sad but true. I've come to the conclusion that he's not weak

or a caver, this is EXACTLY they way he wants it, these are the things he believes in. :argh:

[tomp]

50. and the rest of the party goes along....

....or stands by helplessly.

can you all see that yet?

[tavalon]

63. Preaching to the choir

The balance has shifted here, even.

[tomp]

66. aside from the terminal obamaphiliacs....

....there are still plenty of people here who are deluded in their thinking about the democratic party.

i believe these are well meaning people who have yet to break through the brainwashing of the imperialist (two-party) system.

this manifests as calls to call your congressperson, or sign this or that petition, or to organize within the democratic party locally, etc.

well meaning but obviously futile. i am here solely to change those minds and to oppose the obamaphiliacs.

[defendandprotect]

53. Agree -- the mask is off -- 3 years tell the story -- it's over --

[SnoopDog]

60. Ok. so, he's just a republican...

I think we need to have something called a 'minimum requirement' for being a democrat.

[tavalon]

62. DLC and "Third Way Democrats"

Sorry to repeat myself. I know they are really the same, fetid, rotted corpse infesting our party. Damn I hate them both.

[inna]

65. totally obvious and goes without saying; K&R for much needed articulating, though!

[sendero]

67. Exactly..

.... there are only two possibilities - one he is a puppet or two he is a DINO.

I'm leaning toward two, but of course it could be one. Doesn't matter, the net effect is the same.

One thing is clear, his management of the economy has been DISMAL and the chickens are coming home to roost. He's had 3 years to do SOMETHING and he has not and now we are clearly slipping into double dip.

These third way fucks better have some voting machines in their pocket, or their man doesn't have a chance.

[OnyxCollie]

87. "These third way fucks better have some voting machines in their pocket..."

Oh, they do. Why do you think the DoJ hasn't enforced its order for ES&S to divest?

Diebold Sells U.S. Elections Systems Business to ES&S
http://news.diebold.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=5006

NORTH CANTON, Ohio, Sept. 3 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Diebold, Incorporated (NYSE: DBD) announced today that it has sold its U.S. election systems business, primarily consisting of its Allen, Texas-based subsidiary, Premier Election Solutions, Inc., to Election Systems & Software, Inc. (ES&S), a leading company in the election systems industry. The sale was consummated on September 2.

HART INTERCIVIC, INC.,
Plaintiff,

v.

DIEBOLD, INCORPORATED and
ELECTION SYSTEMS & SOFTWARE, INC.
Defendants.
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/statesman/pdf/09/0916hart.pdf

The transaction also poses a significant and imminent threat of irreparable
harm to the other vendors like Hart serving less than 20% of voting precincts, harm to the
political subdivisions that constitute the jurisdictions that must purchase voting machines and
election systems, and, ultimately, harm to the voters of the United States, in the form of loss of
confidence in the integrity and security of the means by which elections are performed.

Justice Department Requires Key Divestiture in Election Systems & Software/Premier Election Solutions Merger
http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2010/March/10-at-235.html

WASHINGTON — The Department of Justice announced today that it will require Election Systems & Software (ES&S) to divest voting equipment systems assets it purchased in September 2009 from Premier Election Solutions Inc. in order to restore competition. The assets to be divested include the means to produce all versions of Premier’s hardware, software and firmware used to record, tabulate, transmit or report votes, including the Assure 1.2 system, and a license to better serve disabled voters. The department said that today’s settlement will restore competition in voting equipment systems in the United States and that, without the divestiture, the acquisition would result in higher prices, lower quality and a reduced incentive to innovate.

[Warren Stupidity]

68. its the plutocratic duopoly.

And until we break up their stranglehold on washington nothing will change.

[Hubert Flottz]

72. I keep expecting him to jump in a phone booth and put on his...

superdem suit.

But I'm afraid the Kroch brothers and Goldman Suchs hold all the krapton in an undisclosed location.

[JoePhilly]

75. I heard he kicks puppies competitively, for distance!!!!

[Jakes Progress]

110. He wouldn't do that. Unless, of course, the banks needed him to.

[a2liberal]

77. K&R (n/t)

[Vanje]

78. I've suspected it for a while

The man I supported and voted for, and celebrated , is a stealth NeoCon.

[Marrah_G]

84. Bingo

[wysimdnwyg]

92. Third Way Democrat = Republican (nt)

[woo me with science]

130. Their goals and priorities are certainly very similar.

www.thirdway.org

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

93. He's capable of great things. Unfortunately, he's not doing them

Your op summed it up perfectly.

[Faith No More]

99. He needs to man up and step aside

so a REAL democrat can replace him.

[qanda]

100. I come to DU just about every single day and the top rated posts are those against Obama

Weird!

[Divernan]

103. This phenomena reflects the pragmatic beliefs of the most politically aware Democrats

We judge him on his actions, and the actions of those top level advisers with whom he has surrounded himself.

We do not judge him on his flowery speeches and vague promises of future action.

We refuse to abandon traditional, old-fashioned Democratic party beliefs and values.

Nearly all of his legions of followers and supporters on DU (of whom I was one) have ceased to believe in him. For the handful of remaining true believers, their defense of him ranges from garbled nonsense (a sign of their battle fatigue) to attacking, demeaning and insulting the messengers. They simply cannot overcome the hard facts of Obama's actions and failures to act, so eschew any attempt at factual debates.

[KittyWampus]

105. The FACTS prove you wrong. But you're invested in your sad fantasy. As are many others on DU.

[Jakes Progress]

109. What facts or FACTS do you have

that show Obama doesn't follow the third way principles. At least he has principles instead of slavishly gushing over some person that he has decided is all perfect. I don't agree with many of those principles, but at least this OP suggests that he is guided by principles instead of the few here who don't care what he says or does. Their only guide is that he did it, which by definition makes it good.

Oh. And by the way, that's quite a fantasy life you've got going there.

[ProSense]

111. What

"Like all Third Way Democrats, he differs from Republicans mainly on some social issues. His economic vision is essentially the same."

...nonsense!

Bill Clinton was the epitome of a Third-Way Democrat. Clinton signed the repeal of Glass-Steagall and the Enron loophole, and then along came President Obama.


He revitalized the NLRB, resulting in major victories, and paved the way for the largest federal union organizing effort in history.

"His goals for the economy and the wars are essentially identical to those of the Republicans."

Yeah, Republicans are lining up to support the President's agenda.

It's apparently easy to ignore what the President says and spin opinions that sound good.

After all, it seems that FDR is the President held up most often to counter Obama's liberal credentials.

[LibDemAlways]

114. I'm just wondering what his campaign strategy is

going to be next year. He can't run on the strength of jobs creation or the health of the economy in general. He can't rest on his laurels as the guy whose justice department went after corporate criminals. He can't run on his accomplishments in providing health care for all. He can't run on his record of strong support for unions. He certainly can't run as an agent of "change."

If he had fought the good fight for all of the above and met with limited success, the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party might be in a forgiving mood. As it is, it's hard to imagine the base working up much enthusiasm for a candidate whose vague promises of "change" last time around led, disasterously, to more of the same.

[supernova]

122. This is very true

unfortunately. Whether he believes in Third Way philosophy is another matter. POTUS has governed as a Third Way Dem.

[hifiguy]

126. Too late to rec, but

:kick:

[Horse with no Name]

129. TOTAL BULLSHIT!

It's too late to recommend this.

And YOU, my dear woo, are 100% correct.