If people rioted for shits and giggles you'd see a lot more of it.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

There are reasons.

1. Frustration
2. Inequity
3. Powerlessness
4. Sports

[provis99]

1. 5. Greed for stuff they don't want to pay for.

[Rex]

3. Really? What riot started just to steal from department stores?

Ya got me all curious.

[provis99]

9. how about these guys:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x607646

[frylock]

17. opportunists

[tk2kewl]

19. Exactly right!

the riot was not started to rob that guy. they took the opportunity to rob that guy because of the riots. how is that difficult for people to understand.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. What was the riot started for then?

[tk2kewl]

25. So you think every single person in the streets is stealing?

Clearly the riots have started because of social and economic instability, and some of those involved are stealing shit.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

27. Pay attention.

I'm the OP.


Clue: We agree.

[Rex]

29. Well, that is not a Macys or Dillards but yeah pretty scummy

to bully and steal from a helpless person.

[Patiod]

20. Here you go: nothin' but greed in Philly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npS_VNXAAbo

[Rex]

30. Yes that is greed and stealing, but not a riot.

My point is what riot in history was ever started just to steal from a store? Has there ever been one?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

4. 6. Pithy indifference.

[PVnRT]

5. Swing and a miss

[provis99]

8. you deny there are looters at the London riots?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x607646

[PVnRT]

11. Yeah, sure, that's what I'm doing

You deny that this is more than just a bunch scaliwags who want to steal TVs? Apparently so.

[provis99]

12. ?

My POINT was that riots have greedy looters out to steal other people's stuff, which you apparently denied.

[frylock]

18. the point of the OP was that these things don't start for the sole purpose of looting..

looting is a by product of the ensuing chaos. if people started riots just to steal shit, you'd see them more frequently. riots and protests gone awry have always provided cover for the opportunists to steal swag.

[provis99]

40. that point is not made in the OP.

So I don't have a clue where you're getting that from.

[frylock]

43. must've been the subject line..

"If people rioted for shits and giggles you'd see a lot more of it."

[provis99]

45. so that proves my point. What the heck are you getting at?

[rug]

7. I have yet to see a billionaires' riot.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Number two and three are the main causes

when you start readying on the logic behind them.

K&R

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. Agreed.

[Bluerthanblue]

10. are people saying there are no "reasons"?

or that the reasons are no excuse for wanton violence?

Mob mentality often doesn't involve using ones 'reason' from my experience.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

13. Fair enough.

Are the reasons/policies an excuse for timidity? Inaction?

It's the proper response that's in question.

Popular polling does nothing to move the debate.
Elections seem to mean little.

What is the acceptable "next level?"

[Bluerthanblue]

16. it takes a lot to fight

against established/entrenched systems.

Violence isn't going to do it in any positive or lasting way imo.

I wish I could say there was an easy answer- If there were, our would wouldn't be where it is today.

Who is the violence hurting in England? Those who are responsible for the situation? Or people who much like the rioters are just trying to have a life?

People say "the youth feel like they have no future" Someone in another op about this issue said that 'they have gripes about their society' 'they have a society that looks down upon them" As terrible as it is, Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris could have used the same kind of justification for their actions.

I don't know what an effective response to the situation is- but I do know what an unacceptable one is, one that only makes everything worse- and that is what they are involved in now.

peace~

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

21. "I don't know what an effective response to the situation is-..."

Time to figure it out, imho.

Who is the violence hurting in England?
Who are the austerity measures hurting?


The effective response is the one that isn't working ineffectively. :think:

[Bluerthanblue]

26. I agree that it's important to find a way to work towards a

better society. I don't agree that moving in the wrong direction is ok- Making something worse isn't the answer.

I could kill my child so that he wouldn't starve, but would that be a positive solution?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

28. (throwing straw aside)

Wrong= subjective
Worse= subjective


The only thing that works is pressure. First, non-violent. Second...

[Bluerthanblue]

32. tell that to MLKjr-

or Gandhi.

They refused to resort to violence and lost their lives as a result. Yet their movement hasn't ended. People can destroy property and kill the body, but they can't stop a movement.

Becoming what you hate, doing the wrong that you abhor, using the excuse that there is no other way- only makes the world a worse place.

Until humans come to the realization that violence and killing are NOT going to solve anything in the long run, we are condemned to repeat this frickinly idiotic spiral down to the eventual end of human'kind'. imo.

We say we've evolved- we haven't evolved beyond war and violence. We are still neanderthals in that respect.

You seem to be seeking to justify the violence in the UK from what I see. Sorry, but I can't agree. The only people really being hurt are the rioters, and the people who live among them. It isn't the "oligarchy" - or the "oppressors" who are paying the price. It is the little people who being made to suffer more.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

42. I'd tell him but he was killed.

:think:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

44. Oh, and check this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1707829

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. A little personal experience

I had command of EMS during a six hour riot in Tijuana.

Yes some folks went to jail over it and one of my crews was lucky to come out of it alive... the ambulance needed a new windshield and extensive body work though. And yes, they got a verbal reaming from me. They were from another group and truly believed nobody would attack them since they were an ambulance... wrong.

Now here was our response...

We approached community leaders and others and asked... a very basic question WHY?

Now there were more reasons than the ones I was directly involved with so this is NOT a full list.

1.- Kids are running with the gangs and are going around with the wrong people.

Fair enough, with the cops... we cleared a vacant field and build a soccer field, and provided balls and got a league going. That did wonders for both children and adults alike.

2.- Health access is not really there.

With the city we built a community clinic.

3.- Summer months have kids running around.

We had several community services build services to keep those kids amused during the summer.

4.- THe city also offered positions in municipal services, Nope, the pay is not great, but it was a steady pay check.

The other response we could have had, was to get the army involved, patrol en force and just put the lid a tad tighter.

We figured out that thirty soccer balls, for example, were cheaper than fixing an ambulance.

This is not what has happened in England... over the last thirty years.

I will add though... our reaction to that six hour soiree was NOT common. The normal instinct is exactly what is going to happen in England from what the PM has already said.

[readmoreoften]

34. It's an emotional response, not a political tactic.

The uprisings in Egypt were a tactic. This is a consequence. It could, however, evolve into something else or influence policy.

[seabeyond]

14. mob rule has a lot to do with feeding of and particpation. nt

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

23. So does oligarchic rule.

:think:

[seabeyond]

37. many of the people that are involved wouldnt know wtf you are talking about. be we do know

how mob rule works. really

lets ignore the obvious.

:wow:

[eShirl]

15. prolonged social injustice

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. There are too many disincentives for anything else.

+1

[Nye Bevan]

33. Most of the rioters don't have a clue about politics or current events.

But they do understand the concept of a free plasma TV.

[readmoreoften]

35. Racist bullshit. They know they're being fucked over.

[Nye Bevan]

36. "Racist"?

Say what?

[The Midway Rebel]

39. self delete

[The Midway Rebel]

38. Lots of unemployed males aged 16 to 24

No job, no hope for a job, no future. Add warm weather and rapid communication via social media networking... stir and enjoy!

[robdogbucky]

41. Economic gaps are reasons for rioting

Tue Aug 9, 2011 3:53pm EDT

* Widening gap between rich and poor exacerbates tension

* Inequality felt most keenly in London, say charities

By Mohammed Abbas and Kate Holton

LONDON, Aug 9 (Reuters) - Just yards from the east London street where riots erupted on Monday stands a house for sale that sums up the depth of division in the area.

With five bedrooms, three bathrooms and its own coach house, the elegant property has been put up for sale with an asking price of 1.7 million pounds ($2.75 million). The main attraction, according to the advert, is the sought-after location.

Many residents of the diverse borough of Hackney said it was this ever widening and very visible gap between the rich and poor that has exacerbated tension in recent years, especially as government cuts to welfare payments have started to bite.

Britain, one of the world's major economies, has a bigger gap between rich and poor than more than three-quarters of other Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) countries, according to a 2008 report. Charities in Britain say that inequality is most keenly felt in London.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/09/britain-riot-...



One resident of Hackney was quoted thus:


"They call it looting and criminality. It's not that. There's a real hatred against the system," he added, listing what he saw as the police prejudice, discrimination and lack of opportunity that led him and his friends to loot shops, torch bins and hurl missiles at police on Monday.