If you aren't breaking the law why care about warrantless searches?

[usregimechange]

Looking for response to that. I wish I would have saved it but it was a quote from a SCOTUS Justice responding to how it damages liberty. Anyone have a good quote like that? Thanks,

[arcane1]

1. I care about the Constitution, that's why n/t

[Gregorian]

2. It changes the context within which we operate our lives.

I'm not putting it in the right terms here. But when we know we're being watched, we behave differently. We change our behavior. We self censor.

And then there's the notion that we're innocent until proven guilty. While searching, they can inadvertently discover something that they wouldn't have had they just followed the Fucking Constitution.

[Dawson Leery]

3. Why do the police unions support this blatant violation of the Constitution?

[TexasProgresive]

4. If I have not done anything criminal why should my person and papers

be violated. Besides that, the PoPo have a reputation of destroying what the search- leaving the victim with the pieces to put back together.

[phantom power]

5. Well, the pragmatic reason is that governments that can conduct warrantless searches...

start to break into people's homes and arrest innocent people.

[izquierdista]

6. No Jews in your attic?

You won't mind if I take a look then.....

[awoke_in_2003]

27. seems to be heading that way. nt

[CJCRANE]

7. It should work both ways - politicians and judges

should hold all meetings and negotiations in public and declassify all documents. It shouldn't be a problem if they have nothing to hide.

[no_hypocrisy]

8. Because your property is personal and not subject to general searches by the government.

Another good reason is that you may not know that a search could conclude with a citation.

I had a client with an empty vodka bottle in the backseat of his car (en route to the recycling center). Cop asked to search the car and he consented, thinking he wasn't breaking the law. Cop wrote him a ticket for an open container. He certainly didn't see that coming. Could have been avoided if he had just refused the search.

[geckosfeet]

9. Errr. Because. That IS breaking the law. I won't be a party to it.

[Throd]

10. I'm not hiding anything up my butt, yet I don't want anyone looking there either.

[Marr]

11. If I'm not mugging you, why do you care about theft?

If I'm not burning your house down, why do you care about arson?

Because it's the law. Law either means something or it does not. If it does not, then the social contract is null and void and we may as well jump the walls of those gated communities and get down to some serious pillaging.

People who ask questions like the one you conveyed need to stop and think about just how much they're really benefiting from the social contract.

[gkhouston]

12. Why should it be acceptable for those who are supposed to enforce our law to break it?

Warrantless searches can be used to harass for political or other reasons not remotely related to legitimate law enforcement. They can be used to create a climate of intimidation and suppression. The potential for abuse is high, which is why we have the protection of warrants, for the guilty and the innocent alike.

[William769]

13. Kentucky v. King 8-1 decision.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-1272.pdf

[Solomon]

14. Here's the answer to your question.

All crimes are political.

That is to say, even crimes such as robbery, theft, etc. are, political. A legislature decides what is a crime and what is not.

Notice how heavily weighted against the lower classes our criminal system is. We could just as easily enact laws that say you get the death penalty for swiping people's money from ponzi schemes.

That being the case, why would you not care about the precious right against unreasonable search and seizure, if you can be prosecuted for something, that you don't agree is a crime?

Think about it. All crimes are political in nature. A legislature can pass a law right now making something a crime that you routinely do.

No. This is one right we need to hold onto with all our might. They have already whittled it away with exceptions.

How can a person be a person, if there's no right to privacy? You can't be human with no expectation of privacy.

And that's the second point. We must have an EXPECTATION of privacy, even to do some of the things that we do that are not illegal at all. I expect privacy when I'm taking a dump, for example. That's a gross example but it doesn't get any more basic than that. Why should we live with the expectation that at any time, no matter what we are doing, we can be exposed like that?

I've heard people ask this question in the past and I've never felt the need to respond to it. I just shake my head in wonder that a person could consider the idea a valid one. But to see it here on DU, I just had to say something.

Look at it this way. The rich man has his castle, with bars and gates, security, guards, etc. Where's your castle? I don't care if it's a damn broom closet, if you live there, it's a fucking castle when it comes to the right to be left the fuck alone.

[B Calm]

17. Good reply!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. Find and watch this great old movie, "A Man For All Seasons."

It's about Thomas More, Chancellor of England who was executed by Henry VIII. And look for this scene:

Roper: Arrest him.

Alice: Yes!

More: For what?

Alice: He's dangerous!

Roper: For libel; he's a spy.

Alice: He is! Arrest him!

Margaret: Father, that man's bad.

More: There is no law against that.

Roper: There is! God's law!

More: Then God can arrest him.

Roper: Sophistication upon sophistication.

More: No, sheer simplicity. The law, Roper, the law. I know what's legal not what's right. And I'll stick to what's legal.

Roper: Then you set man's law above God's!

More: No, far below; but let me draw your attention to a fact - I'm not God. The currents and eddies of right and wrong, which you find such plain sailing, I can't navigate. I'm no voyager. But in the thickets of the law, oh, there I'm a forester. I doubt if there's a man alive who could follow me there, thank God....


Alice: While you talk, he's gone!

More: And go he should, if he was the Devil himself, until he broke the law!

Roper: So now you'd give the Devil benefit of law!

More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

Roper: I'd cut down every law in England to do that!

More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you - where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast - man's laws, not God's - and if you cut them down - and you're just the man to do it - d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake.

[Solomon]

16. Yep. Just as I said above. All crimes are essentially

Political. Nice synchronicity there. And one of my favorite movies, along with Becket.

[Gregorian]

18. Nelson Mandela was called a "terrorist".

It's an interesting discussion, even if it's one we should never have to have.

[JHB]

19. Two words: "fishing expedition"

[WillyT]

20. Yeah... It's Called The 4th Amendment To The Bill Of Rights/U.S. Constitution

The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, along with requiring any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. It was adopted as a response to the abuse of the writ of assistance, which is a type of general search warrant, in the American Revolution. Search and arrest should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer, who has sworn by it.

Text

“ The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

:shrug:

:hi:

[spin]

21. Because if I piss off some politician by not supporting him ...

or embarrassing him he could make my life a living nightmare. Not only would I learn to be quiet in the future, but others would realize that it was a bad idea to speak out.

If you give those in charge too much power, they will abuse it. If we continue down the path we are headed by castrating the Fourth Amendment, eventually our representative democracy will be a police state.

The failed and foolish War on Drugs and the current War on Terror has offered our government the opportunity to gain tremendous powers and they love it. Power is as additive as drugs.

[Starry Messenger]

22. Because they'll just make some shit up if they want to.

I can't believe people still drag that canard around. If they want your ass in jail, you are going. See: any poor neighborhood full of minority folk.

[ljm2002]

23. Because I don't want to live in a country where...

...the police can come into your home at any time for any reason.

One reason the police do things like that, in countries without spelled-out rights for their citizens, is to intimidate them. In other words, they don't have to be doing anything wrong in order for the police to come a-knockin' on the door, or more likely, a-kickin' in the door.

No thanks.

Those rights were worked out over the period of the last 1000 years or so, and it is appalling to me that people are so willing to just wave them away.

That "if you're not doing anything wrong" argument is pure bogosity.

[zbdent]

24. Is the GOP more than happy to have their offices searched, for all billionaires

to have their bank records seized and assets frozen (in case they might have dealt with terrorists) ...

Oops, I leaked the plan a little too early ...

[awoke_in_2003]

28. Nope, and don't you ever dare...

video a cop doing his job. Funny how cops think "if you aren't doing anything wrong, why worry?" yet will not stand to be video taped by the public. A bunch of authoritarian, steroid pumping goons (yes, i'm sorry- 90% give the rest a bad name)

[zbdent]

25. Why was Bush/Cheney so concerned about an investigation into

what happened leading up to 9/11?

I mean, if it were all due to the actions of Bill Clinton, you would think that they'd love an investigation, right? (To listen to some Repugniconvicts, George W. Bush never blamed Clinton for anything, Obama's the first to ever blame his immediate predecessor ...)

[Rageneau]

26. If you don't know they are there, what harm are peeping toms?

Why should someone who isn't being immoral care about being seen naked while unaware?

[rustydog]

29. Because I live in America, the land of the free...Remember?

We are supposed to be a nation of laws.

If you think I am doing something wrong, get a search warrant specifying what you are looking for and where you believe it to be.

You MUST prove my guilt, I do not have to prove my innocence.

Bush and his administration were so completely inept, they changed all the rules to favor them and they still did not catch one
America-hating terrorist by listening to my phone calls without a warrant!

Play by our rules or get the you-know-what out of this country.