Profile of a UK looter: 19, learned to read 3 yrs ago, never held a job

[Liberal_in_LA]

Louis James, 19, who says he has never held a job and learned to read only three years ago, admitted to looting a $195 sweater.

London Riots Put Spotlight on Troubled, Unemployed Youths in Britain

LONDON — “I came here to get my penny’s worth,” said a man who gave his name as Louis James, 19, a slightly built participant in the widening riots that have shaken London to its core. With a touch of guilt on Tuesday, Mr. James showed off what he described as a $195 designer sweater that he said he looted in Camden Town, a gentrified area of north London.

In many ways, Mr. James’s circumstances are typical. He lives in a government-subsidized apartment in northern London and receives $125 in jobless benefits every two weeks, even though he says he has largely given up looking for work. He says he has never had a proper job and learned to read only three years ago. His mother can barely support herself and his stepbrothers and sisters. His father, who was a heroin addict, is dead.

He says he has been in and out of too many schools to count and left the educational system for good when he was 15.

“No one has ever given me a chance; I am just angry at how the whole system works,” Mr. James said. He would like to get a job at a retail store, but admits that he spends most days watching television and just trying to get by. “That is the way they want it,” he said, without specifying exactly who “they” were. “They give me just enough money so that I can eat and watch TV all day. I don’t even pay my bills anymore.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/world/europe/10youth.html?_r=1&hpw

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. That's part of our problem here - no jobs.

Same shit. We had our Reagan, they had their Thatcher.

[shanti]

20. that's it.

no jobs. idle hands are the devil's playground, and all that. a person's self-worth is largely dependent upon their job, do the math. this is happening everywhere now. :(

[Sarah Ibarruri]

21. Free trade. nt

[Bonobo]

2. Countries are only as strong as their citizens.

With no education or health care.

With no savings or jobs.

How long do you really think America can be strong?

[Brigid]

16. I have heard it said . . .

that any society is only about 9 or 10 meals away from anarchy. Why should ours be any different?

[beyurslf]

3. Plenty of people have tough lives. My kids were raised in foster care for over 10 years

until I adopted them. Plenty of bad happened to them too. He had choices and he made them. I am sorry that he chose wrongly. He was "in and out of more schools than he could count" and "he chose to leave school at 15"---yet he was "never given a chance"? I can only begin to imagine why he went through so many different schools. Failing to learn to read is a problem of the educational system and it reflects poor parenting and his own poor choices as well. One system cannot be to blame for that failure for the schools cannot teach those who choose not to learn. Is the $125 he receives from the government not sufficient for doing nothing in his government subsidized house?

I get it. It is tough and it sucks and it is not fair. I agree. Millions of others around the globe have it far worse though. And he has plenty of people from history who show a path to changing ones society without resorting to violence and terrorism. I say round up the rioters, throw them in jail, and leave them there for a good long time.

[virgogal]

4. Hurrah,a voice of sanity. They riot and steal because they are thugs.s.

[beyurslf]

6. Society is about respect and not what we are owed.

If we don't respect the society we have been given, then why should society give us anything? Once they have those rioters behind bars, I hope they wait until a session of Parliament votes to let them out. See how long that takes!

[izquierdista]

12. I think you have it backwards

If society doesn't have a place for you, if all you do is lay about with an insufficient stipend, what kind of respect is that? When people do that to their pets, it's called neglect or animal cruelty. If these people had lives with education and jobs and recreation and a future to look forward to, they wouldn't be rioting.

[beyurslf]

28. Why does society owe him a place at all? Can't he make his own place within that society?

England is one of the richest societies in the world. Even the poor have it better than billions of others on the planet. This child ignored the education freely offered to him and failed to avail himself of even the most basic things he was offered by that wealthy society. Did they offer him an expensive sweater? No. Did they give him a fancy car? No. But that great society offered him a paycheck for doing nothing and a subsidized place to live; yet he riots in the streets and wants more? Half a decade in a prison cell might teach him what he had. Better yet, a few years in an Afghan slum may show him even more.

I know it is harsh and I didn't used to think that way. I used to want to understand why a young person acted the way they did and why they resorted to crime. But working with those youth changed my mind. I can't even tell you how many kids came through my home over the years with a chip on their shoulder so big that they couldn't stand up. I served them no good by telling them that attitude was justified because of the hardships in the their life. We are not all dealt even hands. Some people are born into great privilege and some people have to work for every scrap. Some people barely work and everything comes easy and some people have to stay up late putting in extra time just to stay caught up. Some people are born with good families who love them and support them and raise them right. Some people are born into crappy families and have terrible things happen to them that I can't even write here.

But none of it gives them an excuse to hate the world and blame society for their problems. We are each responsible for ourselves and the choices we make.

I am sorry that young man made bad choices. I wish had chosen differently. I wish he had seen what he had rather than what he had not. Regardless of why he made those poor choices though, he should be punished for breaking the rules of the society. Softening the punishment out of pity for his plight only invites others with a sad story to act in a similar manner. It's why so many young people today think they can do whatever they want without regard for the rules of their community.

[JoeyT]

33. Bootstraps!

Boooooooootstraaaaps!

Your insistence that the poor should pull themselves up by their bootstraps is noted. As is the bit about personal responsibility. And the bit about being tough on crime. And the Zero Tolerance. And the "The poor here have it good! If they don't like it they should move to <insert third world country here>". And the idea that society owes the poor nothing. And the idea that there isn't a class system with a whole lot of people with a whole lot of power that have a whole lot of vested interest in keeping that class system and ensuring as little social mobility as possible. After all that I was wondering if I clicked on the wrong speed dial button again.

A person may very well not be able to make their own place in society. Once you hit a certain point, it does seem like everyone is working on keeping you there. Mostly because they kind of are. It's one of the problems with having an adversarial system like we have. If I get a $1000 a year raise it doesn't increase my relative wealth as much as making sure a hundred thousand other people lose a thousand dollars a year. Society causing or at least being pretty much ok with the problems does give them a right to blame society for it. In the society we have now, hurting the people below you is considered just as good as real economic and social mobility with half the work. It's practically the entire Republican platform.

I still think it's right to at least try to identify what causes people to feel so far removed from society that setting your own street on fire seems like a really good idea. I've had some pretty shitty times before, and I've never been close to that far gone. I'm guessing very few people here have.

The short version of this is: They're right to be pissed at society. Where they went wrong is in how they reacted. Now it's up to society to figure out how to stop it from happening again.

[malaise]

13. Define society n/t

[beyurslf]

29. The community (both large and small) that he lives within.

In this case, it would be the neighborhoods where he lived, the city of London, and the country of England.

[originalpckelly]

17. I was under the impression that the kids learned from the society.

Perhaps I was wrong about that.

[seabeyond]

19. if a parent is even half way doing their job, i hope not. do you really want society to teach your

child? or the parent that has the childs best interest. one of the best thing we do in this house is to question, challenge, and when needed, ignore social pressures.

[Obamanaut]

39. Yes, they do. Imagine if you will, a shopowner looking at his empty, burned out

store and asking himself "What life misfortunes could have befallen those poor people to cause their behavior to be so antisocial. Well, life goes on."

Or the widow seeing her car burned to the rims, and even though she doesn't know how she will get to work any more wonders aloud "Those poor souls were expressing themselves in the only way they knew how."

No, it's vandals, thugs, and thieves.

[Habibi]

9. I think I get where you're coming from, and

I honor the great good you've done in the world. I haven't had your deep experience. But I wonder--was this person just one of the unlucky ones who didn't *see* the path out that was lit by others? And what shall we do about those kids?

Really, I wish we could save everybody. But thanks for the saving you've done. I'm awed.

[beyurslf]

30. I am not sure that we can do anything about those young people.

A person has to make a choice to have a better life. For whatever reason they chose not to, then we can't help them. They may feel there is no hope for a better future and we can try to show them that hope. But unless they want to change, we can't do it for them. One of the young girls I work with is almost 18. She refuses to go to school. Dropped out of her GED program even though she is almost done. Won't stop smoking pot. Finally she ran away from the apartment we had set her up for independent living. My partner at work is somewhat new to foster care and she wondered why this girl would run away when we had everything set up for her. The answer is she didn't want a better future--maybe is scared her and maybe she just liked the way her life was before. It doesn't matter why. She made her choice. Yes, she will have a much tougher adult life now, but I can't chose differently for her. And 3 years from now if she is out robbing businesses or rioting in the streets because of her tough life, I will have no pity. She made her choice and it was a bad one.

[TBF]

5. When they say "no child left behind" they are talking about wealthy children

and that's in any language. It is absolutely sickening that in countries with so much wealth we have so many living in poverty.

[seabeyond]

8. my kids school is implementing yet ANOTHER solution to the kids that wont do

in class, to try yet ANOTHER way of allowing kids to succeed.

along with morning and afternoon tutoring for the kids having a challenging time, they are putting last period on friday for kids that havent turned in assignments thru out the week, one last time to get it in and kids that have successfully done their work leave early.

how much babysitting, coddling and holding the kids hands must the school do before it falls on the kids shoulders or the parents? and i will bet you the parents that have to come early will bitch about the different time picking up their child. though that extra period will be there when their kid does not turn in their work.

[senseandsensibility]

14. As a public school teacher, I appreciate your constant

support of the jobs that schools are doing from a PARENT'S point of view. My school goes the extra mile too, and I'm sure that most do. You just rarely hear anything positive, even on a "liberal" board, so thank you.

[seabeyond]

15. you... are welcome. and thank YOU for educating my children

above and beyond what we ever got in school.

[TBF]

22. I know that it has to be frustrating for teachers -

but I think parents are stretched very thin right now. I'm fortunate that I'm able to be home with my kids and can make sure they sit and do their homework every night.

[seabeyond]

23. i agree tbf, they are. and still because the parent is stretched and can't or won't

do their job, it should not be handed off to the teachers. the teachers can't do it. without the parent, the teacher really can not do it.

[StarsInHerHair]

32. I see the concept here of a broken person is unknown....you dont get it

sometimes a person has a "twist" in their mind, in their self; sometimes this can be fixed but it has to be recognized, you can see for yourself, or maybe try watching films from the 1930s 1940s...they show broken people. Mental health science was new then, so like stem cells they thought it could fix everything; it has limits but it can & does help, if it's used properly. Here's an exercise for you: try to have overwhelming belief-certainty-about something, then try to do what you believe is impossible. Go ahead, try it.

[seabeyond]

37. you are wrong. you really dont know anything about me, my experience or what i know.

that being said, there are all kinds of reason, all over the place for so many people on all kinds of economic scale that have issues adn problems. this boy is an unknown to me. he is also an unknown to you. we have very little info in order to discuss the situation. i dont know him or his problems any more than you do. but i do know the situation and the people at the school that i discussed, that you insist i dont understand.

i was addressing a specific poster and comment once again, the schools are not providing for our children. i challenge that thinking. your post ignored the issue i addressed

[Gregorian]

7. People without the power to be heard.

Without the power to make change.

It's inexcusable what has happened. It's criminal. But the very fact that we have this situation means that if we ignore it, it's going to return. The sentiment exists.

[HipChick]

10. The British Govt and Police have been ignoring it for 30yrs

I don't see anything changing...

[bengalherder]

11. Might be the only nice new thing he's ever had.

He is only nineteen. Are you all so free of your adolescence that you will say you regretted nothing? And how many of you grew up in such a family?

People do things in herds that they would never do otherwise. RICE? SWEATERS? For Fuck's sake, many of these people are risking arrest for staples, apparently. I wanna see pics of plasma screens, funny, some were too busy looting the food to go upstairs to where they had the electronics...priorities? A bag of rice will feed your ass for a month. Have you EVER seen pics of rioters posing with fucking rice?

[hughee99]

18. What is "a chance"?

As in "no one has ever given me a chance"? Look I'm not going to suggest that he's had an easy life or anything, but he did attend school (a bunch), and the government is paying for housing and giving him a monthly check. No he doesn't have it good, but what "chance" is he looking for, someone to knock on his door and offer him a good job? I'd feel worse for him if it didn't sound like he's completely given up.

[RagAss]

24. He should have read the "Riot Act"

[REP]

25. I'm sympathetic - to a point

English private schools ("public" here) are open to everyone and have high standards. At some point, before age 16, he was able of pushing himself to pay attention to his lessons.

That said, yes, being poor and ignorant (not stupid - ignorant is not knowing) is a depressing grind that takes a lot to get out of. That, as well as class, has been an English problem since before Shaw wrote Pygmalion. This exceptional work, which should be read often, especially Doolittle's speech about the 'deserving' and 'undeserving' poor, does make the subtle point that in an unfair system, you can't always wait for someone to fix all your problems. I think this lad's wanting to work in shop reminded me of Eliza ... and what she did instead of stealing a sweater.

Edit to add: there will always be some who either cannot or refuse to make their own way. In wealthy societies like ours and the UK, those people must be supported with basic needs (food, housing, medicine, clothing, etc), especially those who cannot, but even those who refuse as well. They are a small segment of any society, and whether or not they "contribute" anything, they still add to that society - especially if they are not forced to turn to petty crimes in order to obtain food, clothing, housing, medicine, etc.

[Odin2005]

26. He didn't learn to read until he was 16?

:wtf:

[Fla_Democrat]

27. Well, no one has ever given him a chance....

:eyes:







:smoke:

[Number23]

31. "He would like to get a job at a retail store, but admits that he spends most days watching

television and just trying to get by."

And to think that some are calling guys like this "freedom fighters"

[TheBigotBasher]

40. That's whay I love you

#23

[Number23]

44. You know I love you back, BB

I was just talking about you the other day. And your wonderful pieces you used to write exposing that fraud Jane Hamsher. It's really too bad that so many have allowed this woman to think for them.

Are you actually in London? Are you and your family okay?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

41. I think they meant "freedumb."

[WinkyDink]

34. ....left the educational system for good when he was 15. “No one has ever given me a chance...."

I see a contradiction here.

[The Midway Rebel]

35. Career opportunities...

are the ones that never knock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZOrkPIZ1JU

fuckin' duh!

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Trillo]

38. So, what's the TV like in London? ...

"I am just angry...," he says.

“Not all black women act as we too often see on TV,” says Dr. Melody T. McCloud of Atlanta, “The media shapes all of us in ways we don’t even discern; I hope it will take steps to mitigate the negative images it puts forth. I also wish those who have that national exposure would seek to present a more positive view of their character. Exhibit grace, or disgrace? ”

http://newsone.com/nation/samalesh/apprentice-nene-leakes-star-jones-angry-black-woman/

So, just wondering about London's TV, is it pretty much the same?

[TheBigotBasher]

42. No, there are even more repeats of Judge Judy.

[Imajika]

43. Good thing for these vandals and rioters that they aren't doing this stuff in the US...

The UK seems much more accommodating to this sort of thing. If they tried that in many, perhaps most, areas of the US these days they'd be shot after the first night of this nonsense. Where I live in Virginia, the police probably wouldn't even bother with rubber bullets. And with so many people that open and conceal carry now, these rioters would quickly find out it was extremely dangerous to try to rob folks.