Why do we like roads and bridges so much more than renewables and energy efficiency?

[dkf]

Dont we get more bang for the buck with renewables?

[jwhitesj]

1. I can think of 2 reasons off the top of my head

1. Less politically devisive
2. More visible

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Depends.

You need roads and ridges to get places. If bridges collapse, like a big one did in my city, people die. I'm all in favor of energy efficiency and green technology, but we need roads and bridges and they need to be maintained.

[dkf]

7. But aren't the cities or states already responsible for that?

Roads and bridges will get done anyway or so you would think. Renewables...not really.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. They should be, but if Republicans are running your state

you won't get decent roads and bridges (let alone mass transit) because building and maintaining them costs money. Just ask me how Tim Pawlenty starved the state of Minnesota to the point where we're now a cold Alabama.

[drpepper67]

31. Tennessee is fully controlled by (R)s and has some of the best roads in the country.

As rated by truck drivers. Tennessee always rates at the top. And all three braches of State Gov are (R) controlled.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

41. Maybe the truckers have a good lobby.

In my state, Governor Tim ("The Tool") Pawlenty was so far up the ass of the anti-tax crowd that he cut funding for stuff like infrastructure repair. 13 people died when the I-35 bridge fell into the Mississippi.

[drpepper67]

45. We have a $.39 a gallon tax.

[monmouth]

49. Maybe truckers have a good union...n/t

[Sheepshank]

44. no. There are city streets and state road sand federal highways n/t

[polmaven]

46. I don't think

cities and states are resposible for the interstate or federal highways.

[lbrtbell]

23. I was just going to say that

Because a crumbling infrastructure is a more immediate hazard. :(

[grahamhgreen]

3. Yes. Wind is cheaper than nukes, and as cheap as coal.

[pitohui]

4. i don't see how we the real people get ANY bang for buck from bullshit

it's obvious why we like roads and bridges better...they are freedom and they are REAL

energy efficiency is just a phrase that never proves to amount to anything, so it's paying to get back nothing

if you want people to be impressed by renewables and energy efficiency, show us where renewables/energy efficiency has benefited someone besides a billionaire

my energy bill doesn't go down when i'm charged an additional recycling fee, no it costs me money FOR NOTHING since they haven't picked up my recycling for years, that's right, we literally have to pay for a product that has not been in service since katrina

it is a sad thing, but "renewables" and "efficiency" have a background history of fraud and rip-offs, they have a LOT to prove

i can see and use a road

i can't see or use a "renewable"

address the problem of no perceived benefit from energy efficiency, and maybe you'd get somewhere

[dkf]

5. Some people with solar panels pay no electricity bill.

How can you get more visible than that?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. My city gives rebates for recycling.

It costs me less for trash collection because I recycle. I got all CFL bulbs and an energy star air conditioner and my electric bill is lower. I installed an energy efficient furnace and new triple-glazed windows and got a huge tax credit; and now my house is warmer in the winter and my gas bill is much lower.

To say that energy efficiency is fake is bullshit.

[jwirr]

17. That attitude may work for today but it sure is going to cause trouble

in the future. I am speaking of oil depletion and the rising cost of oil. However, I do see your point as I assume that a good share of the people think like you just illustrated. By the way weatherization programs do work. Putting insulation, roofing, windows into older homes makes a great difference in the monthly bills.

[madokie]

39. My wife and I are getting on in years

so we're paying attention to the efficiency of whatever we're buying/doing, because in a few years it'll be fixed income for us, and we damn sure can tell on our electric bill the energy savings we're paying for. I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're saying of if you're actually understanding what was posted.

[Vanje]

6. The bridges and roads are already there.

It took a lot of effort, energy and money , WILL , and community spirit to build them.
Maintaining them is a bargain.

If you lose your roads and bridges, Where you gonna drive those energy efficient cars and trucks?

[dkf]

9. Or if gas is super expensive then everyone has to be centrally located

So you won't need so much sprawling roads. Our community planning is so inefficient anyway.

[Vanje]

19. We still need a network of roads out into rural areas

to get food from the farm to the people......unless you think it would be more efficient to helicopter millions of pounds of spuds to your cities.

[OHdem10]

8. It is not what you like. Practically from day one Obama has had

the Monies set aside to assist people who want to
start companies (renewables), There are no takers.
It is up to companies to start these things. A window
company took some early on.

Infrastructure--Road Bridges etc. State and local
government can hire people and get started.

Our National Parks were built during the Great Depression.
The great TVA is another. Some Libraries.
This sort of thing is so much easier to get done.

[dkf]

10. Personally i am worried about about peak oil.

I would feel more confident in the future of this country if I could see a move towards renewables. It amazes me how nonchalant we are about this.

[napi21]

11. Because fixing roads & bridges could provide lots of good jobs almost instantly!

Not only to construction workers, but to businesses tht sell the products needed to repair them, more business generates the need for more office stff, etc. Renewables are great, but the return isn't nearly as quick.

[dkf]

14. Shovel ready projects right? Even that seemed to take forever.

[OHdem10]

21. Not in Columbus Ohio.. We got the funds and projects were

initiated. We have had Heavy equipment workers every where.

Obama let the Republican Narrative Stand. The stimulus
did not work is a big Republican Lie.

The Problem with stimulus: TOO SMALL in proportion to
number of laid off workers.

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. What makes you think we like roads and bridges? If we really did

we wouldn't have 10,000 bridges nationwide that are at the point of collapse.

[dkf]

16. All I hear about are roads and bridges...roads and bridges.

But your point is taken.

[Vanje]

18. About a week ago, a GIANT HOLE appeared in the middle of...

State Hwy 55, near my home.
The hole was caused by a century old culvert crumbling.




Because of the hole There is a detour. The alternate route triples my commute mileage. It takes about 55 miles more than usual EACH way.
110 more miles every day to get to work.
Now multiply that by the hundreds of people who use that road.
Thats an extra 2 hours too, every day, that I am on the road, not being with my family, not playing with my dogs.

Tell me! How energy efficient was neglecting that crumbling culvert?

[dkf]

22. Did they even know about it?

[Vanje]

24. Yes.

It was well known that the culvert was failing.
Farmers , moving dirt with their tractors , private citizens with sand bags tried to keep the road viable.
It was'nt enough.

[dkf]

25. How crazy to not do anything. Someone could have been killed.

Waiting for the Federal Govt to provide funds is kind of sad.

[WinkyDink]

35. Well, it's only "roads and bridges." (Did you read your OP?)

[Vanje]

42. I think the OP...

....may be a performance artist.

[tgal]

50. after this post and the 'buy houses to rent'

thread I see what you mean.

very uninformed at the VERY least.

Unbelievable.


tgal

[Vanje]

26. The road blew abruptly at about 4 pm

Thats about the time when school buses are carrying Owyhee County's kids home to their families.

No one was hurt.
Could've been bad.

[laureloak]

36. DOT doesn't know the true condition under most roads.

Engineers prioritize projects based on public safety factors, but politicans turn those priorities upside down to kowtow to public opinion and pet projects. Only engineers should be able to prioritize spending on roads and bridges. Funding only projects that are "shovel ready" is NOT the best way to go about it.

[FLAprogressive]

20. Because Joe Voter doesn't care about wind farms and solar panels as much as he cares about not dying

on a crumbling bridge.

[Vanje]

27. The farmers need the bridges too

It is not energy efficient to helicopter hundreds of thousands of bushels of wheat, onions, or sugar beets from fields to population centers.

[pinboy3niner]

28. Deferred maintenance has put infrastructure in crisis and made it a public safety issue

It's not a question of 'like.'

[Kennah]

29. We'll still need roads and bridges when we're riding bikes and horses

[SoCalDem]

30. Probably because they are already in place and being used daily by millions of people

and work done on them is done by people who are in place and ready to go as soon as a bid is won.

The high-tech stuff is still largely in the formative stages (thanks to 40 years of deliberate neglect).

[ladjf]

32. It might be a "comfort zone" issue. More people are able to

relate to "bridges and roads" than they are to various forms of renewable energy projects. nt

[laureloak]

33. Crumbling infrastructure is dangerous & presents a poor image.

[badtoworse]

34. Renewables are a mixed blessing

They do produce some jobs, but a lot of the components that are used are manufactured overseas. The "green jobs" panacea hasn't materialized as far as I can tell.

The energy they produce is expensive and without tax credits and state RPS requirements, I doubt we would have any renewables. An efficient, gas fired combined cycle plant can produce energy cheaper than either wind or solar. After high labor costs, high energy costs are the biggest reason manufacturing jobs have left (at least, in my opinion)

[Yavin4]

37. Why Not Do Both At The Same Time? If We Can Fight Two Wars at the Same Time...

why not invest in renewables, roads, and bridges at the same time.

In fact, I see the two as the same. Transportation is our biggest challenge. It has to be more efficient and cleaner.

[Vanje]

43. +++++++++! nt

[hack89]

38. Lets fix the shitty roads first so they are safe.

then we'll talk.

[WinkyDink]

40. Oh, I don't know; maybe the fact that we DRIVE?

[kentauros]

47. Because we don't yet have teleportation technology? ;)

No matter what, all technologies, good and bad, require a transition period. You can't just flip a switch and we're suddenly all on renewables. No system is set up that way.

[JVS]

48. Our roads and bridges are in deplorable condition. We should fix them first.

[Ignis]

51. Simple answer contained therein:

http://www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com/