Fundamentalist Christians ‘spanked’ daughter to death

[warrior1]

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/08/fundamentalist-christians-spanked-daughter-to-death-in-the-name-of-god/

CNN’s Gary Tuchman reported Monday on a fundamentalist Christian couple who killed their 7-year-old adopted daughter while practicing a violent form of discipline.

snip

[WhiteTara]

1. I hope they go to prison for a long time. n/t

[Drale]

15. I'm not sure what state they are in but

I hope they fry and get to meet the real God so he can really open their eyes, maybe melt their faces off like when you look into the lost ark.

[LeftyMom]

23. California. He got two life sentences, she got thirteen years.

And that was with a plea bargain.

[LetTimmySmoke]

2. Another person who bends the will of his imaginary friend to match that of his own violent self.

[sakabatou]

3. Disgusting

God wanted to beat their children? WTF?!

[Ohio Joe]

4. There is no such thing as "spanking" to death.

The fact is, they beat her to death.

[warrior1]

5. they called it spanking

but your right.

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. Yes they did.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

6. disgusting...

twisting the Word to give you the 'right' to fail to deal with your failings as a parent...

sP

[LeftyMom]

7. Let me guess, followers of Mike and Debi Pearl beat a kid to death with plumbing line?

*clicks link* Yep. That's getting to be as predictable as the sunrise.

[Pithlet]

13. That was my first thought, too.

Scum of the earth.

[LeftyMom]

18. One of their adult daughters blogs about her constant "prophetic" dreams about the end of the world.

I don't know how they make money teaching people how to parent when there's evidence all over the internet that their parenting creates total whackos.

[XemaSab]

43. It was the people up outside of Chico

:(

[yardwork]

70. Happened in North Carolina a few years ago too.

[Initech]

8. Abuse like that = parenting epic fail.

[Oceansaway]

9. scum of the earth...n/t

[uppityperson]

10. Beat, they beat their child to death. k&r

[lumpy]

12. Only sadists could do such a thing.

x

[Vehl]

14. sick

such people should be put behind bars for life.

[one_voice]

16. How the fuck do you beat someone for 7 hours?...

what kind of monster is capable of that? SEVEN fucking hours that child was beaten...

I'd get banned from DU if I wrote what I thought should happened to those monsters...make no mistake that's what they are. No soul, no conscience monsters.

[Fumesucker]

17. They're probably going to have to be segregated from the general prison population..

They wouldn't last a week otherwise.

That means solitary from now on basically.

A good start.

[LeftyMom]

20. I read fundie blogs as a hobby. Posts about all-day spanking marathons are not infrequent.

This girl was beaten to death for mispronouncing words. Seven hours of abuse for a foreign-born child mispronouncing English words. :crazy:

Yeah, CPS gets called when they're dumb enough to post stuff like that on their family blogs. Hopefully a few of these tragedies have been averted. :/

[one_voice]

30. I just can't wrap my head around something like..

this. In a million years I'd never "get" it.

It breaks my heart...

[Initech]

34. Frank Zappa once said to raise healthy kids keep them as far away from the church as possible.

The more I think about it, the more I think he was onto something. That's horrific that something like this happens on a frequent basis, and that it's mostly religion that teaches this form of abuse.

[upi402]

46. I'm beginning to think that's right. n/t

[closeupready]

66. I think he was right.

nt

[pipi_k]

19. And here is another example

of people who should be forcibly sterilized.

There are people in this world who should NOT be allowed to breed. Unfortunately, it's never realized who they are until a child dies or is maimed forever. It's just too bad there aren't some kind of psychological tests people have to take before they CAN breed.


And to hell with any "people have the right to have children" bullshit.

Oh, and a big "fuck you" to the RW "right to lifers" who would probably think this is more acceptable than aborting the poor thing before she was even born and able to feel such awful pain before she died.


PS...and apparently god "told them" to do it. It's no wonder people who claim they talk to god (and he talks back) are looked at with suspicion. :eyes:

[LeftyMom]

21. Sterilization wouldn't have helped- this child was adopted from Liberia.

Liberia was the big source for fundie foreign adoptions for a while because they had no rules about the maximum number of children in the home.

[pipi_k]

61. It's a shame, really...

That more isn't done to make sure people having, or adopting, kids are fit to do it.

:(

[Proles]

22. Yeah, "spanking." More like abuse.

How Christian of them... to murder.

Spanking should be considered child abuse period anyways. If a parent can't find a more constructive way to discipline their children then it's the parents who have problems, not their children.

[MagickMuffin]

24. Sanctity of Marriage Man & Woman beat ADOPTED Daughter

Yet, gay couples aren't allowed to adopt because children NEED a man and a woman to raise a child.

How many beatings to death have gay couples been involved in???


May this Precious Soul find peace at long last :cry:

[seabeyond]

25. this has nothing to do with any kind of religion or faith, regardless of how misguided, but only

abusive parents that resulted in a death.

[LeftyMom]

26. It has everything to do with religion. The authors these people followed tell people that their way

of disciplining children is a Biblical mandate, and that failing to raise children in this manner risks their immortal souls. The very name of the book these people took their instructions from (and these are not general instructions- it's where they got the plumbing line idea) comes from scripture.

[seabeyond]

28. i know a lot of very religious, literal minded christians. and you are wrong.

none of them, nor the people that preach to them interpret the bible in this manner.

[LeftyMom]

31. These people do. That's the whole point of the Pearls' "ministry."

Here's their website, http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/child-training/ if that doesn't convince you go read their books, or the websites of their many followers, and get back to me when you have a clue. I read their literature, follow their blogs, I know the names of their kids and where they live. I've forgotten more about fundamentalist Christianity as a movement than you know. Argue with me about this if you want, but you're just going to look stupid and wrong. Sorry.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

37. really? wow. nt

[elehhhhna]

78. If tyou stop spanking when it borderson abuse,your child "wins". This effer is crazy.

Never put yourself in the place where you may lose the contest. What if the boy didn’t stop? Would you spank him forever, or would you stop when it bordered on abuse, in which case the child would win?

[laundry_queen]

32. Disagree. I has everything to do with a specific sect of the fundies.

Brainwashed people who believe everything their 'pastor' tells them to do. Think Duggar-type sects. They are all over. I've known many online people like this from various parenting boards I've been on when my kids were little. It's a GROWING demographic (how can it not be when they're all having dozens of kids?) Especially because current republicans have made it more 'normal' and these types of whack jobs are no longer shunned. For the record, I also knew quite a few fundy quiverful families who were very against spanking, but don't doubt that a lot of the abuse happens BECAUSE of religion. Those brainwashed people actually think that they are saving their kids by hitting them. They look to their pastors. If their pastors peddle books such as the 'how to train a child' or whatever the hell it's called, or the Ezzo books, then they are far more likely to abuse than if the pastors preach non-violence in the home. Just because you only know those who don't follow those books, doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Marr]

36. It *can be* interpreted in that matter, and in this case was.

So it is about religion. It doesn't matter if other people interpret the same religious text differently.

[seabeyond]

38. and all those people that beat their kids without the help of pearl or the bible? nt

[Pithlet]

39. So. Because some non-fundies also abuse their kids

that means a growing fundy movement that incites people to beat their children can't exist. Not following that logic. Sorry.

[Hydra]

64. You don't see a problem with people being given cover

By a religion to hurt or kill children?

If they hadn't had the religious excuse, most people would see them as even bigger monsters.

Don't let me bother your illusions though- child abuse in the name of God has a long and distinguished history, especially among Old Testament readers.

[LanternWaste]

59. I think the interpretation is the critical and relevant factor rather than...

I think the interpretation is the critical and relevant factor rather than what is being interpreted. For example, two different interpretations of the same law can cause more problems than the law itself.

All other things being equal, do we criticize a benign law, or do we criticize a malignant interpretation of the benign law? I believe that in all practicality, each religion, all politics, all forms of justice, philosophies, etc., can each be interpreted in a form and a fashion that harms and hurts, or soothes and prevents.

[_ed_]

52. "I know some Christians"

isn't exactly a statistical survey, no?

My circle of acquaintances wouldn't be representative of anything at all.

[Iggo]

62. My Circle Of Friends...

...or A Few People Who Mostly Don't Think I'm Shit.

[LanternWaste]

58. I think it has everything to do with...

I think it has everything to do with interpreting religion rather than religion in and of itself.

[seabeyond]

68. i dont know

that 7 hours of beating a child even has anything to do with interpretation.

nowhere in my mind can i wrap around any preacher or written word allowing a parent to interpret that to a 7 hour beating.

it is like the interpretations that allow flda raping of children. i dont know that i believe that these people are allowing religion to allow them to rape the children, or if it is the people themselves that do it with the excuse of religion.

or the minority in the islamic religion that suicide bomb using the excuse of interpretation to murder

[Pithlet]

69. But that's a difference in degree. Not in kind.

If you're beating your kid with a plumbing supply line because you feel it's the Godly way to raise your children, you're abusing your kids because of screwed up interpretation. When you completely lose your cool and carry it on for 7 hours, religion suddenly has absolutely nothing to do with it? It exited the picture altogether? I don't think so. The fact they got carried away and went to far and it led to the death of their child doesn't negate the reasons they were doing it.

[seabeyond]

72. that was my point above about non religious beating their kids to death,

or even the belief in spanking as punishment.

it is not a religious decision. some use religion to validate belief in spanking, some use example set from parents or just their own decision that spanking is the course.

too many parents use spanking as a form of parenting without it being anything to do with religion. too many kill their children from abuse without the excuse of religion. and too many who are religious dont practice this behavior or go to the extreme.

i dont think it is religion that allows someone to murder their child. i believe it is used as an excuse for extreme behavior, and to me, that really has nothing to do with religion.

i am a non religious person. and i am anti spanking. just to clarify with a particular comment from a poster with the purpose of ultimate insult.

[pitohui]

79. well what you think has nothing to do with reality, so why keep repeating this?

it's about religion -- spare the rod and spoil the child is in the fucking bible and until the last part of the 20th century almost every parent in this country beat their child because of that bible and that religion

to say it isn't about religion is to ignore reality and to ignore history

i know that my parents and other parents deeply regret the harm they did because they believed they were following god's law, unfortunately, the harm done can't be undone, and "we're so sorry" decades later doesn't fix a childhood of horror

most americans my age or older were beaten and we were beaten because of religion

the very few "weird" admitted atheists did not beat their children, why would people who are looking forward instead of just following a book beat their children? it is not logical

i'm sure there are a few crazy nuts out of there of other religions or no religions who have beaten their children but in america, for a century, MOST child beaters have been christians and to pretend it isn't because of the bible is just plain ignorance

they will tell you themselves that it's in the bible

[Pithlet]

27. The Pearl's book was found in their home.

I'm pretty sure their fundamentalist faith played a role, here.

[_ed_]

51. The fact that religion spurred their action

"has nothing to do with any kind of religion or faith?"

Next you're going to say that they aren't "true christians."

[yardwork]

71. I disagree. Fundamentalist religions push abuse. They urge their followers to abuse.

Fundamentalist religions of all kinds encourage people to beat up on those who are weaker than they are. Men are urged to beat women and children. Women are urged to beat children. It's all part of their sick idea that power must be retained by those at the top.

[Odin2005]

29. OMG! There are no words!

:grr:

[HughBeaumont]

76. Well, there are words . . .

. . . but likely the unprintable kind reserved for people who beat kids to death.

Reading these articles makes me ill. Too many of them are popping up lately.

[Rex]

33. How do you not notice your child going unconscious and dying

while beating on them? What sick fucking animals do that?

[_ed_]

53. Religion

It's easy to get bad people to do bad things. To get good people to do bad things, religion is required.

[LanternWaste]

60. Or greed. Or temptation. Or losing a job. Or a divorce....

"To get good people to do bad things, religion is required..."

Or greed. Or temptation. Or losing a job. Or a divorce. Or a death in the family. Or an entire host of non-religious things. It seems your own opinions are just as dogmatic as those you criticize... :shrug:

[ohheckyeah]

40. I checked out the book on

Amazon and I can't believe there is anyone who would give this piece of trash 5 stars or anything more than star but unfortunately there are idiots talking about how Godly the authors are and how great the book is.

Of course they think they are being persecuted because they are Christians rather than the fact they are sick sadists.

[Lunabelle]

41. Shepherds never hit the sheep with a staff.

They gently use it to steer the sheep in the right direction. This is one of the most misunderstood passages in the bible. Poor baby. This is so sad.

[pnwmom]

45. Exactly. nt

[Manifestor_of_Light]

42. Was this severe blunt trauma?

In the video they said the girl died from something usually caused by earthquakes. I guess it was so horrific they didn't want to explain it. I'm not a medical person.

[LeftyMom]

44. The beating causes the muscles to break down, like tenderizing a steak,

which in turn sends materials from the broken-down cells into the bloodstream. The kidneys can't flush the material fast enough, and the child dies of kidney failure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhabdomyolysis

[Manifestor_of_Light]

47. Thanks!

[Necronomiconomics]

48. Christian "Babywise" parenting book: Infants who cry should be smacked

http://www.salon.com/life/feature/1998/08/cov_06feature.html

[susanr516]

50. My daughter was warned about Babywise

when she took a childbirth and early infancy class. I went with her because her husband was working nights. The instructor told us that she considered the parenting info in Babywise to be child abuse.

[cat101]

49. Fundamentalist Christians

This type of child rearing is not so rare.I grew up in a fundamentalist family.I was the youngest of 6.I went to church 3 times a week and every night if there was a revival.I was beaten with switches(small limbs from trees)and belts for being disobedient as early as 3 or 4yrs old.It was and is considered a duty to use the rod.The scripture used was spare the rod spoil the child and you can not bend a tree when it has grown tall you must bend it as it was growing.My mother now 94 and my sister 66 still attend such a church and they are everywhere if you know what to look for.I feel so much pain for these children.The God I was taught about was big on hellfire and sins very little was on love.I still have a very hard time with self esteem.This is like trying to get out of a cult.I married very young to escape,went to college,and have lived a very different life.I have received counseling among other things yet I still feel unworthy.This can be very damaging IMO just as any extreme group can be.Do not be fooled into thinking this is only a southern thing.I grew up in Ohio and can find several in a 10 mile radius.

[Withywindle]

57. Welcome to DU, cat101!

:hi:


Walking away from one of these dangerous cults is a very difficult thing to do - you seem like a strong person to be able to escape at all, and then see through it. Thank you for sharing your story, and I hope you find a lot of friends here!

[InvisibleTouch]

63. Sorry you had to experience that!

It sounds like you made deliberate choices to break away and make a better life for yourself. Good for you! But yes, I can see how such an upbringing would affect you throughout life.

I do think that the "parents" practicing such a child-rearing style are merely using religion as an excuse to indulge in their own sadistic and authoritarian impulses. And those who are preaching such interpretations of religion are doing the same.

Anyway, welcome to DU!

[yardwork]

74. The authoritarian religions teach people to abuse their children and wives this way.

Some of the people who do this may already be inclined toward sadism, but I believe that many people are literally brainwashed into believing that this is the right way to treat their children and wives.

[Hydra]

65. Welcome to DU, Cat

And thank you for sharing your story. The more people who know, the less acceptable it is for people to do it.

[yardwork]

73. Welcome to DU. I grew up in rural Ohio and knew many people in fundamentalist churches.

It is abuse, pure and simple. Physical and emotional torture. I admire you for getting out. I wish you the very best. Thank you for posting this here. People who haven't witnessed this might not believe it is true. It's very true.

[Auntie Bush]

77. I'm so, so sorry.... but welcome to DU

May you never feel any more pain in your life. Sounds like you already received more than your share.

[pitohui]

80. what cat said is very true

however, there is no use pretending that only "cult" christians believe in "spare the rod and spoil the child," until the 1980s the overwhelming majority of christians believed it

nowadays with more awareness of the harm done by beating children, decent christians have turned away from this part of the old testament and only the crazy fundies full of hate still cling to it...but in my lifetime "spare the rod" was not just cults and haters, it was ALL christians

we forget how recent the change in awareness is...i was already an adult when it began to be widely acknowledged that spanking children harms them and there are still haters who deny it to this day in the teeth of every bit of scientific proof

spanking children is beating children, although spanking sometimes implies that the person will beat the child in a deniable way, such as on the rear end so the marks are hidden...it's still beating children, no two ways about it

[TwilightGardener]

54. Whose ass would Jesus beat?

[Volaris]

56. The money changers who populate Wall Street, more than likely..

and probably paid lobbyists, if he really thought about it for a minute. Then, for an encore, he would show up at the Republican National Convention, find a microphone, and recite the speech about giving to Rome what is RIGHTFULLY Rome's...

Shortly thereafter, the people waiting for the "real" Messiah to show up would have him publicly executed. AGAIN.

[backscatter712]

55. That's the religion of peace for you - the one with an execution and torture device as its symbol!

God loves you, but you need to be disciplined with severe beatings because you're inherently total scum!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

67. Lenny Bruce asked if xtians should wear electric chairs around their necks.

That was in the early 1960s.
He said that if Jesus had lived in the 20th century, and been executed in an electric chair, would xtians wear little electric chairs around their necks?


Good question.

And I have neighbors who have six or eight foot tall torture devices in their yards to show everyone how pious and holy they are.

:puke: :puke: :puke: :banghead:

[backscatter712]

75. Bill Hicks said that if Jesus returned, the last thing he'd want to see is a fucking cross.

That's like going up to Jackie Onassis while wearing a sniper rifle pendant and saying "Hi, Jackie! Just thinking of John, we loved him!" *click*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLS-l3VbCAM