China: Locust to the world?

[Donnachaidh]

http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/jane-stillwater/37926/china-locust-to-the-world

For almost every problem, the current solution that America's leaders employ tends to involve bombs and spies and force. Are resources or bank accounts running low? Then go bomb some country in Africa or the Middle East. Unhappy citizens at home? Then beef up Homeland Security.

On the other hand, China's method of dealing with problems seems to be a bit different. While Americans appear to be constantly in Terminator mode, China tends to be more of a trader. Got a problem with a country or a person? Then sell 'em stuff.

Unfortunately, America's tool box is too limited -- "When all you have is a hammer, all the world starts to look like a nail."

But if you are merchant, peddler and trader to the world, you also have a big problem too -- the stuff that you trade.

More at the link --

[JDPriestly]

1. Excellent article. A must read in my view.

Here is, in my opinion, the key paragraph:

According to Nagler, Mahatma Gandhi "saw that our present economic system is being driven by a dangerous motive: the multiplication of wants. Because these wants are artificial -- being that they created by advertising -- and can never be satisfied, it creates what economist David Korten has called a “phantom economy” of fantastic financial manipulations that of course can never endure.

http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/jane-stillwater/37926/chinaqu-locust-to-the-world

How about prizing quality above quantity?

Wouldn't that be a novel idea?

The Chinese (an other cheap imported) products seem to fall apart right after you buy them. At least that is my experience.

I would guess that there is no pride in good workmanship. Contrast that with the German work ethic that grew out of the guilds of the Middle Ages. I lived in Germany for some years and came to respect German craftsmanship and organization. And Americans can do almost as well as the Germans.

[sabo_tabby]

2. Good point...

We've invaded nearly as many countries,

Killed nearly as many "people who don't look like us,"

Terrorized and killed nearly as many LGBT,

Polluted the world MUCH more efficiently than the Germans or Chinese ever could,

"German work ethic" is just another way of saying WASP-ism. Kudos for you for living in a different culture (unlike most AmeriKKKans who are unique in the world for not knowing anything beyond their own subdivision) but I wonder how much of your praise for the Germans is based on "observer bias."

I find these stories and editorials bashing "people who don't look like us" tiresome. It just plays into the same tired Puke race-baiting.

I think it's rather narrow-minded to paint China with such a broad brush because their products are somehow "shoddy." The fault lies with greedy AmeriKKKans who are unwilling to pay for better.

There are many ways in which China is FAR superior to AmeriKKKa.

[enlightenment]

3. Hmm - you're doing a pretty fair job at race-baiting yourself.

Not to mention using a broad brush.

Your argument would be more persuasive if you had made it without relying on that sort of language.

[sabo_tabby]

4. Race-baiting? Or reminding people of AmeriKKKa's crimes...

We're guilty of the only successful genocide in history.

We're guilty of murdering millions of people just because they don't look like us.

We're guilty of bioterrorism (smallpox in blankets to women and children?) that's STILL gone unpunished.

We're guilty of slavery that's STILL gone unpunished.

We're guilty of wage-slavery that's STILL going on unfettered.

We're guilty of destroying the culture of immigrants who had to give up their heritage when they came here.

We're guilty of destroying the culture of whole nations by the exportation of "AmeriKKKanism," an invasive species if ever there was one.

"German work ethic," "Protestant work ethic" are all dog-whistle words. No one ever talks about the "African work ethic" or "Chinese work ethic." Ever question why? Why are we afraid to acknowledge others who don't look like us?

It's exactly how the Fat Cats and Bosses would like us to think.

This is all how the Pukes get us to stray. Pukism IS racism.

[Dreamer Tatum]

6. Lunchtime fun

We're guilty of the only successful genocide in history.

Uh, which, exactly?

We're guilty of murdering millions of people just because they don't look like us.

Uh, which, exactly, and is that really the reason?

We're guilty of bioterrorism (smallpox in blankets to women and children?) that's STILL gone unpunished.

Feel free to go kick the shit out of the people who did that. You will need a shovel, however.

We're guilty of slavery that's STILL gone unpunished.

See above.

We're guilty of wage-slavery that's STILL going on unfettered.

Hee hee. In a thread comparing us to China. Hehehehehe.

We're guilty of destroying the culture of immigrants who had to give up their heritage when they came here.

And they came here at gunpoint?


We're guilty of destroying the culture of whole nations by the exportation of "AmeriKKKanism," an invasive species if ever there was one.

Yawn. Fart. Sorry they like our movies.


"German work ethic," "Protestant work ethic" are all dog-whistle words. No one ever talks about the "African work ethic" or "Chinese work ethic." Ever question why? Why are we afraid to acknowledge others who don't look like us?

Dog-whistle words to confused puppies like you, perhaps.

It's exactly how the Fat Cats and Bosses would like us to think.

Eyeroll. It ain't a polemic until you bring up the "Fat Cats." China has a few of those, too, you know.

This is all how the Pukes get us to stray. Pukism IS racism.

What is "Pukism?"

[madokie]

11. Your first question's answer is the native Americans.

I've got Cherokee blood in my veins and that blood still feels betrayed. If not for the Cherokee people the white settlers would have frozen to death or starved to death that first winter. In the end the invaders (white settlers) marched the Cherokee's and other tribes on the trail of tears to show their appreciation. So please don't get all uppity on us ok

[enlightenment]

7. Right.

I've seen better arguments from college freshmen.

Support your position, please. Prove your points or accept that you were guilty of exactly what you were accusing others of doing.

"The only successful genocide in history"? Which one was that, again?

"Murdering millions . . . because they don't look like us"? I assume that goes with the statement above? Are you referring to Native Americans? I agree, millions died, but of all the reasons why, "because they don't look like us" was pretty far down the list.

"Bioterrorism"? I assume you're talking about Lord Amherst's suggestion that infected blankets be sent to the Pontiacs' in the 1750s? That would be the only proven episode of such 'bioterrorism' and there is no direct evidence that the suggestion was carried out, though it is generally accepted. But if you're using that to argue how horrible Americans are, you have a bit of a problem; the colonies were still British at the time.

"Guilty of slavery that's still gone unpunished"? Hmm - what would you consider just punishment? Shall we lop off the heads of anyone that had slave-owning ancestors? You'd best check your family tree carefully - you never know what may be there, especially if you're claiming Native American heritage.

"Guilty of wage-slavery . . ."? Yes - the US and virtually every other nation on the planet, including China.

"Guilty of destroying the culture of immigrants"? "Guilty of destroying the culture of whole nations"? These statements are hyperbole of the worst sort and are not defensible arguments in any way - don't waste your time trying.

"Dog-whistle words"? You don't get out much, I guess. I see and hear all kinds of conversation about the 'work ethic' of other nations - China's in particular. Perhaps if you read something other than whatever it is you read, you might notice the discussion.

"Fat Cats and Bosses"? Seriously? First it's American culture; then it's the American people; now it's 'fat cats and bosses'. Honestly - make up your mind, find an argument and stick to it.

"Pukism"? Making up words is an automatic fail.

[JDPriestly]

9. Have you ever be a German auto shop?

I was shocked to see the order and cleanliness of one I visited in Munich some years ago. Not even in the US would you see such a neat, efficient workplace.

I seriously doubt that I would find such an auto repair shop in any other country in the world.

I am quite aware of the crimes of the NAZIs and the STASI. I'm not talking about politics. I am talking about the training and ethics of the work force.

It is not authoritarian. The people just have a tradition of guilds and apprenticeships that began in the Middle Ages. And today, they develop a healthy work ethic early on -- starting in kindergarten. It is not a racial issue. It is a matter of the culture -- especially the guilds of Germany.

This is not so true of the US although our American-made products were of a quality far superior to that of the products we now import -- across the board.

[immoderate]

5. You are attributing a personality trait to culture. Check yourself out.

I have never encountered any culture that was devoid of people who took pride in their work. I used to teach in Chinatown (NYC). You won't find it there. :)

And in all, I've interacted with people from hundreds of cultures, and I find the genius/asshole ratio to be fairly constant through most (non-self-selecting) subdivisions of the species.

Remember that the Chinese were wearing silk when the Germans were wearing skins. There is no reason to believe that a Chinese craftsman is not equivalent to any in the world, good or bad. It's amazing to claim there is no Chinese tradition for fine workmanship. (They were using chop sticks at least a thousand years before the fork was invented. And they used forks before chopsticks were invented.)

Under capitalism good work ethic means: 1, show up, 2, shutup and do what you're told.

--imm

[JDPriestly]

8. Have you ever been to Germany?

They are unbelievably careful in their work.

Just working hard and long hours is not what I am talking about.

I am talking about the training, the teaching of a craft, that the Germans and many Americans had.

I do not think much of the imported products I find in our stores. They are just shoddily made -- cheap, cheap, cheap.

I am older and remember what traditional fabrics and materials were like. It is very sad to see what we now buy with our money.

[JDPriestly]

10. I was specifically thinking of the German tradition of guilds and

apprenticeships. It started in the Middle Ages.

It is a part of German culture and explains the excellence of their skill and workmanship.

It is no coincidence that many of the highest quality automobiles are German designs and produced by Germans -- the BMW, the Mercedes, just to name two.

It is not a matter of race. It is a matter of tradition.

[immoderate]

12. Yes. I used to own a German made Leica M2R. Built like a jewel.

Times and industrial processes change. Germans set a high standard. For 20th C. Not so much for, and you might say at the expense of, engineering and innovation.

Every culture has a high achievement class for crafts. Politics can get to them. Like the Italians.





Chinese outside of sweatshops can do good work.

--imm

[JDPriestly]

13. Yesl It is the sweatshops that are the problem. It is not a racial thing.

Europeans have labor laws that don't permit sweatshops. That is the difference.

A lot of underdeveloped countries have been just so desperate for foreign currency that they will exploit their people in inhuman ways or permit the exploitation of their people in inhuman ways in order to make just a little something.

The stuff that is made in sweatshops is a waste of resources. Go to the local dollar store and look at the junk that is there.

And then they sell it to very, very poor and getting poorer Americans. What a travesty of economics.

[AverageJoe90]

15. Agreed. NOT a racial thing at ALL.

[AverageJoe90]

14. I will have to respectfully disagree. China has done NOTHING for the world post-1976.

If anything, the people running Beijing and their corporate cohorts are really the leeches or mosquitoes of the world......(same thing can be said about the Rethugs, too, though.)
Also, Think of China as a modern day version of Mussolini's Italy, but with rotating premieral seats.
(This is not, by any means, an attack on the everyday Chinese citizen, so please don't get mad.)