On the shooting in Torreon Mexico

[nadinbrzezinski]

La balacera en Torreón fue afuera del estadio
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Sábado, 20 agosto 2011
Uno Noticias.- La Fiscalía General del Coahuila dio a conocer los hechos por los cuales se suspendió el juego entre Santos y Morelia que se llevaba a cabo en el estadio TSM de la ciudad de Torreón.

El Fiscal Jesús Torres explicó que la balacera se dio a las afueras de dicho inmueble.

Relató también que fuerzas militares hicieron un alto a un vehículo tripulado por personas armadas sobre la avenida que conduce hacia Francisco I. Madero.

http://www.unonoticias.com/DS/268016/w-La-balacera-en-Torreon-fue-afuera-del-estadio.html

The shootout was outside the statium (headline)

The DA office of the State of Coahuila told us about the events that transpired, leading to the stoppage of the (soccer) game between Santos and Morelia (First division, professional) that was taking part at the TSM stadium in the City of Torreon.

The DA, Jesus Torres, explained that the shootout happened outside the stadium.

He also told us that miitary personnel stopped a vehicle with armed individuals on board, that were on the avenue that leads to Franciso I Madero (main avenue).

For copyright reasons I cannot translate the whole thing.

In my mind this is a hell of an escalation. Soccer is like neutral and almost a national religion. Imagine this outside of Qualcomm stadium during an NFL game. This is how serious this is.

A little more,

http://es-us.noticias.yahoo.com/encuentran-militares-veh%C3%ADculo-armas-estadio-torre%C3%B3n-045500646.html

The army confiscated high powered weapons and magazines from the car but was not able to arrest a soul.

I am shaking my head here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Oh and here is a video taken by a fan

no, that is not your imagination that is automatic weapons fire in the background

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCKoEbCoZsw

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Another vid, that is real panic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5GTeDU3ksE&feature=player_embedded

The gunfire is not clear in this one.

[Skip Intro]

3. I've been told here that the only way to end the bloody chaos in Mexico is to legalize cocaine here.

I see the logic in removing the comodity from the black market entirely, much as ending prohibition of alcohol ended the criminal underground that kept booze flowing. But I don't think this is the answer. Cocaine is not alcohol. And personal libertarian-leaning feelings aside, I think it would be a mortal blow to our society to make cocaine as readily available as alcohol. In short, I think the Mexican authorities have to win this battle against the cartels and gangs. I think the US should stand ready to help if asked. The whole situation seems to be spiraling out of control, and I am concerned that the violence will spill over into the US, if it hasn't already.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. The US is already involved, it is what the eight or ninth war

we are involved in? Yes, your SEALS have been training with Mexican SpecOps, for interoperabilty among other things Those Spec Ops were trained by both the IDF and the Germans. So there are a few issues as to working together... and both the Navy and the Army have SpecOps teams, as well as the Air Force...

The Merida Protocol has seen the transfer of a a LOT of gear to the Mexican Military and Federal Police.

As to prohibition... it is part of it, actually. I am not a libertarian, but have been down range from this... and imo it is not winnable.

Oh and it is moving north. There was the arrest of a few people here in El Cajon, working with El Chapo Guzman who had more than just a few weapons, hand grenades and coke. They are part of the Chaldean gangs and they are moving a lot of crap between El Cajon and Detroit. That was the most recent. and El Cajon PD was GLAD they kept the element of surprise, or the shootout would have been a good one.

Here to sources

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion/187958.html

http://www.insightcrime.org/insight-latest-news/item/1388-us-special-forces-trained-mexican-troops-in-colorado

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/39640

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9rida_Initiative

[TheWraith]

5. Not really.

Let's take this one point at a time.

"I see the logic in removing the comodity from the black market entirely, much as ending prohibition of alcohol ended the criminal underground that kept booze flowing."

Good. We have a baseline, then.

"But I don't think this is the answer. Cocaine is not alcohol."

We've heard for decades about how X drug isn't like Y, it's SO much more dangerous. Sure, there are "more dangerous" drugs. And many of them are legal, including nicotine. If you add it up, nicotine kills more in a year than cocaine does in a decade, probably by orders of magnitude. Yet, we view it as being an acceptable personal decision.

"And personal libertarian-leaning feelings aside, I think it would be a mortal blow to our society to make cocaine as readily available as alcohol."

And Henry Ford said that industrial society couldn't function without Prohibition. But we look back and realize that that was idiotic. Just as one day we're going to look back on the "War on drugs" as being a laughably insane policy.

Fact of the matter is, cocaine is ALREADY available in any major city, without restrictions on how old you have to be to buy it, or anyone interested in saying "You look like you've had enough."

"In short, I think the Mexican authorities have to win this battle against the cartels and gangs."

Can't be done. So long as there is a multi-billion-dollar demand in this country for drugs, they WILL be imported here. Tell me, what would YOU do for a million dollars? Take a suitcase across the US/Mexico border? Even if you took every member of every gang, and shot them in the head tomorrow morning, there would be millions more people ready to step up and fill that demand. And millions behind them. Not all of them south of the border.

The fact is we have been trying this exact strategy, for decades. It has been failing, for decades. It's like the old saw about how the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. There will be no different results as long as we are working against all logic.

[CreekDog]

6. wonder if any of the weaponry you here was supplied by our government

to criminals in Mexico?

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Most of it actually comes down through the

road of the ants, as it is colloquially known. that is weapons smugglers taking one or two guns at a time.

[CreekDog]

8. yeah, but i'm not asking where "most" of it comes from

i'm wondering if one of our gun operations helped supply even one weapon.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. We know a few were... specifically to this

not until they do the ballistic trace. Regardless they are a very small percentage of what has gone down there.

[Speck Tater]

9. México is getting almost as dangerous as the US.

2 shot in SF parking lot after Raiders-49ers game
http://news.yahoo.com/2-shot-sf-parking-lot-raiders-49ers-game-051427889.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. And the Guard is patroling the street

since they used automatic weapons. yup.

You forgot the sarcasm somewhere.