Ron Paul dumps on FEMA (again) using Irene

[sfpcjock]

How does he get it exactly backwards? Is Libertarianism that fallible? I mean, I realize that a Libertarian is basically a pot-smoking Republican, but isn't he just a dupe who was exploited by Dick Army's Slavery-Works ("Arbeit Macht Frei") to create the Teabagger Party?

Look, FEMA worked just fine, thank you, in three major hurricanes in Florida before Katrina under a Bill Clinton appointee named James Lee Witt. The boondoggle is Homeland Security which sucked $100s of billions out of it and does stuff like building massive detention center prisons across the country that have no earthly purpose.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/politicolive/0811/RON_PAUL_BLASTS_FEMA.html"> Ron Paul blasts FEMA - Politico

As Hurricane Irene rampaged up the East Coast on Sunday, Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul blasted the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which is in charge of handling the damages caused by the pounding rain, flash floods and high-speed winds.

"It's a system of bureaucratic central economic planning, which is a fallacy that is deeply flawed," the Texas congressman said on "Fox News Sunday." "FEMA has been around since 1978. It has one of the worst reputations for a bureaucracy ever."

The libertarian-minded Paul acknowledged that FEMA can't be replaced overnight, yet he claimed the agency is wasteful and funnels money to contractors instead of the victims of natural disasters.

Should FEMA need emergency funding, Paul told host Chris Wallace he would vote against additional appropriations.

[ladjf]

1. Unfortunately, too many Americans are looking to Ron Paul for

their political and financial leadership. America would be better off if he would shut up. nt

[Historic NY]

2. YUP.

[woo me with science]

17. Meh. At least he speaks out against the wars.

I am glad he is in the race, because he is forcing the candidates to talk about issues that would otherwise be ignored entirely.

He is the ONLY candidate who calls out American empire and warmongering.

And recently he has actually gotten some of the Republican candidates to talk about auditing the Federal Reserve.

Where is our DEMOCRATIC anti-war candidate? Where is our DEMOCRATIC candidate for transparency?

The establishment hates him, because he threatens the status quo re: the banks and the wars. Because of his extreme libertarian views, he has absolutely no chance of getting the nomination.

However, he can do some very good things for the debate.

[ladjf]

21. You made some valid comments. My main criticism is that he

is giving some advice about the current financial crises that is, imo, wrong and dangerous.

[Name removed]

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[Scurrilous]

3. @#$% Ron Paul.

:thumbsup:

[blkmusclmachine]

4. Crazy.

n/t

[gratuitous]

5. Actually, Mr. Paul

Until the Bush II Administration ("This time, it's for the money"), FEMA was the very model of a modern government agency. Efficient, responsive, and well-staffed, it handled emergencies and disasters as it was designed to do. When the Dim Son got his grubby little mitts on the levers of power, he appointed "Heckuva Job" Brownie to run the place, and Brown brought all the expertise and acumen you'd expect from someone whose major resume accomplishment was being a judge at horse shows (Qualifications: Must be able to point and say, "Next.").

Central planning and coordination is the very keystone of disaster response involving multiple jurisdictions, agencies and varying levels of impact. That's what keeps a Boy Scout troop from building dikes on Long Island while a group of firefighters is handing out sandwiches in Passaic. For an example of the Libertarian mindset, remember New York City in the aftermath of September 11. No coordination, no cooperation, and no communication between the groups of first responders. The fire fighters and police did what they could, and performed as best they knew how, but central planning and a single voice directing the action would have been far more efficient, and probably would have saved some lives.

Paul is a fetishist who probably shouldn't be allowed on the nation's airwaves to spew his pornography.

[sfpcjock]

8. I think I'm going to give your answer to my young facebook friend who thinks FEMA is a waste.

Thanks. Thom Hartmann actually mentioned the story this morning saying "Ron Paul says, 'whenever a natural disaster strikes, you're on your own.'" I saw the story this morning on C-SPAN which read the Politico piece.

To me, putting disaster relief in the hands of private companies would be pure insanity. That every time we do this it becomes a campaign slush fund for lousy politicians like Paul. When we do it the private sector "goes to work" looking for every conceivable way to deny your claim and e.g., not even drop water and ice on boiling Katrina victims after 6 days in the sun. You know? I think Brownies quote was, "The government just found out about them, that's why we didn't do it." Come on, we watched it on TV, and the Superdome was NOLA's announced shelter system.

The young people like my friend in law school take the other view because it's easier for them. We recall, they will soon be working directly for the oligarchy. So, I need to answer him.

[Bucky]

19. In Ron Paul's universe, planning is socialism & coordinated planning is communism

and concern for victims of natural disasters is a form of societal mass suicide.

[jmowreader]

22. Until the Clinton Administration, it wasn't

Reagan and Bush I decided the Only Purpose of FEMA was to recover from nuclear war. After Hurricane Andrew there were calls to disband the agency--10th Mountain boxed up all its interrogators, military police and Spanish-speaking soldiers, sent them to Florida and did a HELL of a lot better job than FEMA did. President Clinton decided to make the agency work. Then, as we all know, Bush appointed the guy who got fired from his job at the horse association.

[Name removed]

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[Waiting For Everyman]

6. He tells people fairy tales.

That they don't have to pay for what they want to receive. Isn't it kind of stupid to think that the community that just got hit would have the wherewithall to rescue itself? The manpower, the money (from property taxes, the states' tax), the equipment?

It's a fiction. There's nothing real-world about it.

[sfpcjock]

7. Very interesting. I got this reply last night from a young facebook friend. Take a look:

Ron Paul dumps on FEMA (again) using Irene | DU
FEMA worked just fine in 3 major hurricanes in Florida before Katrina under Clinton appointee, James Lee Witt.

"This is the problem with clip media. One must really listen to the entire interview to understand Paul's position. Further, upon researching, one will discover how wasteful FEMA can be. The comment about homeland security's waste is actually exactly Paul's position...so I love how they throw that in there while criticizing him. Also, FEMA is in severe debt. We cannot continue to run programs that are unsustainable. If we do, they will go away whether one agrees with Paul's position or not." - AH

[gratuitous]

9. And for your young correspondent

Yes, FEMA is "in severe debt," whatever that's supposed to mean. As unbelievable as it may seem, not everything yields to the Invisible Hand of the Free Markets. Near the top of that list is going to be disaster relief. There isn't a profit to be made because helping out people devastated by fire, earthquake, hurricane or volcano isn't a supply side equation. There are certainly improvements to be made in any system, but to expect that disaster relief will somehow become "sustainable" is to miss the screamingly, blindingly obvious.

I hope your friend continues his blessed existence, wherein he is never crushed by circumstances beyond his control. Something tells me he wouldn't handle it very well.

[sfpcjock]

10. Like, +1

Thanks.

[IndyPragmatist]

15. Nobody would make a profit, he is advocating for states to take more responsibility

The people who are actually responding to the disaster are not FEMA workers...ever. They are local emergency responders or emergency responders from other states under mutual aid agreements. FEMA adds an extra layer when they come in.


http://articles.cnn.com/2006-04-14/politics/fema.ig_1_fema-s-katrina-national-response-plan-general-richard-l-skinner/2?_s=PM:POLITICS

"FEMA has long held that state and local governments should be prepared to survive 72 hours before federal intervention."

"The report says the federal government and the state of Louisiana, in particular, had "great difficulty" in meshing their command structures and "never fully achieved a unified command with FEMA.""

"The report cites numerous shortcomings with delivering housing. It notes that cruise ships contracted to provide shelter for emergency relief workers were 35 percent occupied during the first 30 days after the disaster. "At that occupancy rate, the cost to FEMA was approximately $3,363 per week per evacuee, which was about three times higher than the existing per diem rate for federal government workers in the area," the report says."

"FEMA was ill-prepared to conduct the massive search-and-rescue function. Its federally coordinated teams conducting secondary building searches found spray-painted symbols indicating that state teams already had looked through the buildings.Ice, water and supplies: FEMA needs to improve the tracking of supplies. Some FEMA and state workers said they had to order twice as many supplies to get half of what they needed, primarily because they had no confidence in the system."

[Name removed]

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[maxrandb]

11. He might have a point if he weren't full of crap...the Feds were there for Galveston

By September 12, 1906, word had reached the War Department in Washington DC, which dispatched to Galveston 20,000 rations. An additional 30,000 rations were shipped from St. Louis the same day. An army ration consisted of four ponds of water-free food, sufficient for three meals. (p. 122) About 1500 tents were shipped to Galveston from Fort Myer, the Arsenal in Washington. In the weeks following the catastrophe, aid from around the country flowed to Galveston. Even foreign countries, including Great Britain, Germany, France, Russia, Italy, and Belgium responded. Emperor William III of Germany wrote to President McKinley: “I wish to convey to your Excellence the expression of my deep-felt sympathy with the misfortune that has befallen the town and harbor of Galveston and many other parts of the coast, and I mourn with you and the people of the United States over the terrible loss of life and property caused by the hurricane…” (p. 134)

Clara Barton of the Red Cross even traveled to Galveston, reaching it on September 16, 1906. She sent out an appeal: “Find greatest immediate needs here are surgical dressings, usual medicines and delicacies for the sick. No epidemic, but many people are worn out with suffering and exertion, who need careful care and proper food.” (p. 137)

President McKinley ordered troops and supplies to Galveston but did not go himself. He was in the midst of a presidential election campaign with his running mate, Theodore Roosevelt, which he won two months later although he was subsequently assassinated one year after the Galveston hurricane by anarchist Leon Czolgosz. Presidents in the nineteenth century grappled with issues unheard of today. For example, Cabinets did not exist and President McKinley had to arrange for secretarial assistance from his own funds.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW - read up on how they had to dispose of the dead using funeral pyres, and tell me how "wonderful" the "roaring 1900's" were. What an Ass-Hat!

[AnnieBW]

12. How much FEMA $$ Did Galveston Get from Hurricane Ike?

When Galveston, which is Ron Paul's district, was wiped off the face of the map in 2008, how much money did FEMA contribute to get things rebuilt?

Oh, wait. They're all free-market types. They probably pulled themselves up by their soggy bootstraps and rebuilt Galveston all by themselves. :sarcasm:

[sfpcjock]

13. God, Galveston should be the Pawn Raul joke.

Randi and Melissa Harris both covered it today, and it's shocking to me. "The death brigade", I think they called it?

[IndyPragmatist]

14. I don't think anyone actually read the article, excuse me, I know nobody did

Because he said he thinks that emergency response is better handled on the local level. I completely agree with that aspect.

It is, and has always been, the responsibility of states to respond to a disaster. FEMA is there for the recovery. These are two different things. Response, the state and local responsibility, is meant to limit the loss of life. Recovery is meant to rebuild and mitigate. FEMA's only role in response is to provide assistance.

http://www.fema.gov/pdf/emergency/nrf/nrf-core.pdf">National Response Framework January 2008

Chapter 2: Response page 36
Local, tribal, and State governments are responsible for the management of their emergency functions.

Chapter 2: Response page 38
States provide the majority of the external assistance to communities. The State is the gateway to several government programs that help communities prepare. When an incident grows beyond the capability of a local jurisdiction, and responders cannot meet the needs with mutual aid and assistance resources, the local emergency manager contacts the State.

Chapter 2: Response page 39
National Guard forces employed under State Active Duty or Title 32 status are under the command and control of the Governor of their State and are not part of Federal military response efforts.

States would be much better off if the massive amount of money going to FEMA (roughly $6,000,000,000/year) would go to states, or simply, be put into a disaster relief fund. I have a bit of experience in the field, and I assure you, locals can respond to an emergency much more effectively than FEMA. FEMA is an administrative agency. They push money around and step in when state governments cannot handle the recovery phase.

I think we would be much better able to respond to a disaster if more funds were given to states to train and hire emergency workers, purchase emergency equipment, and develop specific strategies based on the disasters that affect their state. Far too much of FEMA's money is spent on administrative costs. This would be much better served going to emergency response agencies. It's one thing when it's a hurricane; you usually have a week or more with a general idea of what strength it will be and where it will be located. It's another thing when it's tornadoes or earthquakes which strike with little or no warning. The first 72 hours are essential to saving lives and FEMA isn't really capable of setting up a coordinated response in such a short period. States on the other hand, can respond much quicker. California can quickly respond to an earthquake in their state and Oklahoma can quickly respond to a tornado outbreak. I would much much rather see states with that extra funding to train and fund their own disaster relief programs.

[gratuitous]

16. I did read what Dipshit Paul said

And he's completely, totally wrong about central planning, FEMA's "reputation" as an agency (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean in his tiny brain), and its duties in response and aftermath to a natural disaster on the scale of a Hurricane Irene. An earthquake that hits a California town or a tornado that scrapes a section of an Oklahoma town clean are indeed local disasters best addressed by local authorities. But the funding for that response has to come from somewhere, and the affected places are in a very poor position to do that. It takes a federal agency because it's a federal response. $6 billion for FEMA is a miniscule portion of the federal budget, approximately what the Pentagon has run through this week (today being Tuesday).

Paul is the epitome of a critic who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. If he had any concern beyond the dollars and cents hobgoblin that occupies his mind, he'd be in the hurricane zone himself. But Ron Paul's forte is complaining about costs he doesn't have to pay, not public service he doesn't perform.

[IndyPragmatist]

18. I work with FEMA almost every day

In any disaster, there is a massive amount of time and resources wasted getting FEMA up to speed. They come in, set up an EOC and JFO and expect to start running things right away. This was one of the biggest problems with Katrina in that FEMA was still figuring out what resources were available while people were dying. Had LA been left in charge, they would have been able to send in the resources where they are needed.

Don't act like states don't have the capability. Our state EOC is capable or handling any disaster in Indiana. Right now, FEMA has come in over some flooding in the southern part of the state. They have duplicated all of the assessments made by state inspectors. The state of Indiana is considering blowing off FEMA and going ahead with opening the state disaster relief fund. Normally, this is only given when FEMA denies support, but there are many people in Southern Indiana that are homeless because FEMA is insisting on duplicating efforts.

Indiana has agreements with every neighboring state for mutual aid. This allows states to bring in nation guard units and emergency responders from other states. This is all that FEMA can really do in the response phase, and now, states have the framework to do this without waiting 24-72 hours for the president to take action.

States are often limited by FEMA. Once FEMA takes over, the state is no longer paying the wages of the emergency workers that FEMA is controlling. Thus, these responders are left with no legal protections unless they are given directions specifically by FEMA. During Katrina, there were hundreds of EMTs that FEMA passed control over to the Red Cross. The Red Cross wasn't able to get into the area nearly as quick as they should have, thus, we had hundreds of volunteers who wanted to help that were forced to sit in a hotel awaiting orders. Had Louisiana still had control, the interstate mutual aid agreements would have provided them full legal protections and they would have been able to help immediately.

I agree with Ron Paul on this issue. Emergency response is best controlled by the states and local jurisdictions. FEMA should continue to exist, but they should not have the authority to take over operations during the response phase. This almost always slows things down at the most crucial time, the first 72 hours. They do a good job with recovery and they should stick to that.

Have you ever worked a large scale emergency? I have. Things are crazy. However, there are always people that know where all the resources are and how best to get them where they need to go. Why? Because these people put the resources there. They created the plans, they purchased the equipment, they trained the emergency responders. When FEMA comes in, they have to know everything. This usually takes many hours, if not days, of briefing high level officials and administrative workers. So instead of focusing all efforts on responding to the incident, states are forced to spend precious time handing the reigns over to FEMA.

Not to mention that the administrative workers are almost all from out of state. These people don't know the geography. They don't know that certain roads aren't wide enough for military units, they don't know that the shortest distance may not be the fastest route. These are the types of things that locals know by heart. During flooding in 2008, FEMA forgot that Purdue had a home football game that Saturday and traffic on I-65 would be backed up. So they didn't use an alternate route. This was included in Indiana's emergency plans, but the FEMA officials didn't have time to read the whole plan.

[sfpcjock]

23. FEMA fails when it is convenient for Republicans to make it fail.

e.g., with the notorious incompetents Joe Alba and Michael Brown that Bush appointed to it. When FEMA is properly managed as it was with James Lee Witt under Clinton it handled 3 hurricanes in Florida efficiently.

FEMA cannot "pay for itself". There is no reason that it should. When our country is not engaged in gratuitious wars with no earthly justification it will have sufficient funds for its better off citizens to help those in need in time of emergency. This is the way government is supposed to work. The states will not have suffient funds to deal with costly disasters in the near future, so Mr. Paul's viewpoint is very unrealistic.

[Ohio Joe]

20. Ron Paul - Stupid racist douchebag - nt

[schrader]

24. FEMA

Anyone who thinks FEMA has a record of a government run origination that runs smoothly and efficiently need only look at their record from past emergencies disasters. I'm pretty sure it will be businesses as usual for them running the recovery after Irene!Waste and fraud and more debt(they already are running a 10 billion dollar deficit)Ron Paul has it right on this one and we need to wake up from our slumber and start plugging some holes somewhere.FEMA mite not be a good place to start after such a damaging storm as Irene and the Pentagon would be a better choice.Ron Pauls Constitutional ideas for a smaller Fed isn't all that bad idea,perfect? Id say No but look at what we have to Chose from as the next Election starts rolling around-I think hes our best shot at getting things back on track.

[sfpcjock]

25. Actually, the Obama FEMA is running like clockwork today in both Vermont and CT

Check your news.