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SIEGELMAN: What Happened to President Obama's MORAL COMPASS?

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Segami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:22 PM
Original message
SIEGELMAN: What Happened to President Obama's MORAL COMPASS?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cb-3ahwsnik/TnAGJZooWOI/AAAAAAAAAnw/40ssDUafuUE/s200/Don+Siegelman.jpg
"...The President needs to engage his moral GPS. He needs to get his moral compass
locked in--while there's still a chance to recoup some value for himself and some
legacy of his Administration that all of us can be proud of...."



:smoke: :smoke:


Former Alabama Governor Don Siegelman, the most high-profile victim of a Bush-era political prosecution, had a strong reaction to recent news that advisors to Barack Obama feared a coup if the administration pursued prosecutions for war crimes.



Obama's team likely also feared reprisals if they pursued accountability on other justice matters, such as political prosecutions and the unlawful firings of U.S. attorneys. That means the White House, under a Democratic president, is more or less saying to Siegelman and others, "The rule of law doesn't apply to you."



Not surprisingly, Siegelman finds such a position abhorrent, and that comes through clearly in his guest editorial at the D.C.-based Justice Integrity Project, led by Andrew Kreig. The Siegelman column is titled "The President Needs to Engage his Moral GPS," and it raises serious questions about Obama's reluctance to lead on issues of profound importance.






Writes Siegelman:

Clearly if one's moral compass is locked in, the decision is easy to make that the United States does not tolerate torture as a means of interrogation. The President should have pursued those responsible for implementing torture as a means of interrogation, and could have explained to the country that this is something that we must do, in order for countries throughout the world, and peoples throughout the world, to once again have respect for the United States. He could explain to the people of the United States that his decision to pursue those responsible for torture was going to be unsettling to some high-ranking officials, both in the military and those in the former Bush Administration.



If he had done that, if he had laid that predicate to the American people, then it would have been less likely that those who were contemplating retaliating against the President for his investigation of torture would have followed through with their threat. But even if they did, then the fight for what is right and just and in the United States' best interest would have been clearly delineated, laid out before the American people, and the American people would have sided with the President in his fight for truth.


.




In short, Siegelman says, Obama should have been upfront with the American people. But he still has not done it on a variety of justice matters, and it has chipped away at the administration's moral authority. Siegelman particularly is outraged by the 2009 case of Pottawattamie County v. McGhee, in which the Obama Justice Department argued there is "no freestanding right not to be framed."






Writes Siegelman:

It's clear that President Obama to let Elena Kagan send her deputy in to the U.S. Supreme Court on January 4, 2010, to argue that United States citizens do not have a Constitutional right not to be framed. Said in another way: That the United States government can frame people, knowingly, and intentionally, and willingly, in order to inspire prosecutors to do their best to fight for those things that they think need to be prosecuted.



I think that's a wrong-headed, illogical, immoral position. Yet the President took that position when he allowed the United States government to make that argument to the Supreme Court.




This was in the case of those two black men who served 25 years for a crime they did not commit. They were framed by prosecutors and investigators in Iowa because the investigators and the local prosecutors didn't want to go after a white suspect. They were able to get a young felon to testify against these two black men in exchange for a bribe--in exchange for a government-sanctioned bribe--that they would cut this young felon a deal on his sentence if he would be willing to lie about these two black men and help the government convict them. He lied, they got convicted, served 25 years, and then were out suing for damages.


.



cont



http://legalschnauzer.blogspot.com/2011/09/siegelman-what-happened-to-president.html


.
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. it's working just fine. Give Obama a break
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DisgustipatedinCA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. you define this as working just fine?
From the OP:

"It's clear that President Obama to let Elena Kagan send her deputy in to the U.S. Supreme Court on January 4, 2010, to argue that United States citizens do not have a Constitutional right not to be framed. Said in another way: That the United States government can frame people, knowingly, and intentionally, and willingly, in order to inspire prosecutors to do their best to fight for those things that they think need to be prosecuted.

I think that's a wrong-headed, illogical, immoral position. Yet the President took that position when he allowed the United States government to make that argument to the Supreme Court."


===========

Is this something that's OK to you, or are you of the belief that Siegelman has his facts wrong?

thanks.
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. When Obama does it, that means it's okay.
Didn't you get the memo?

I really have about had it with people defending the indefensible. They are not honest brokers.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
44. +1000!
:thumbsup:
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Not his MONEY compass!
His MORAL compass! What's with reading comprehension around here? :eyes:
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Segami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
29. We are moving into the 4th year of giving him bend-over-backward " breaks ".
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. Be sure to email Gov. Siegelman and tell him that.
Edited on Thu Sep-15-11 12:56 PM by Hissyspit
:sarcasm:
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. K & R. n/t
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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. The coup took place 48 years ago: 11/22/63, and it
explains why every Democratic president since LBJ has swept the massive criminality of the MIC/PTB and their Repig predecessors' quietly under the rug. The consequences of not doing so have been made abundantly clear to them.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. +1
n/t
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. +2
The thing is, they haven't succeeded completely -- yet -- and we still can fight them.
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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
23. +3
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
33. That's true, but that's no excuse to ignore that criminality either...by ANY Democratic Prez.
Hell, they could act like Kim Jong-Il, lock themselves up in the WH surrounded by Secret Service and do what needed to be done to finally TAKE THEM DOWN. They could have food testers, only trusted people would have access to him and his family, his kids could be tutored and kept away from all people until the cabal was taken down. It's possible to take them on. You just have to want to love your country enough to do it! This applies to every Dem President since LBJ...not just Obama.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
55. +1000
- You nailed it.......

:thumbsup:
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. Just another convicted felon whining
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Scary Politics in Alabama: How the GOP Framed Gov. Don Siegelman
Once a popular governor of Alabama, Siegelman was framed in a crooked trial and sent to prison by the corrupt Bush administration.
July 21, 2008 |

Editor's Note: The following chapter is from "Loser Take All: Election Fraud and the Subversion of Democracy, 2000-2008," (IG Publishing, 2008), edited by Mark Crispin Miller.

On Election Day 2002, the Alabama governorship seemed all but certain to be delivered to the Democratic incumbent, Don Siegelman. In a largely Republican state, the popular Siegelman had been the only person in Alabama history to hold all of the state's highest offices, having served as Attorney General, Secretary of State, Lieutenant Governor and finally, as Governor. When the polls closed on election night, and the votes were being counted, it seemed increasingly apparent that Governor Siegelman had been victorious in his re-election bid against the Republican challenger, Bob Riley. But, sometime in the middle of the night, a single county changed everything, and by the next morning, Alabamians awoke to find that Riley was their new governor.

According to CNN, the confusion over who the actual winner was stemmed from what appeared to be two different sets of numbers coming in from Baldwin County:

"The confusion stems from two sets of numbers reported by one heavily Republican district," the network stated. "Figures originally reported by Baldwin County showed Siegelman got about 19,000 votes there, making him the state's winner by about two-tenths of 1 percent," its reporter added. "But hours after polls closed, Baldwin County officials said the first number was wrong, and Siegelman had received just less than 13,000. Those figures would make Riley the statewide winner by about 3,000 votes."

Riley's electoral victory had rested on a razor-thin margin of 3,120 votes. According to official reports, Baldwin County had conducted a recount sometime in the middle of the night, when the only county officers and election supervisors present were Republicans. While there were many electronic anomalies across the state, the Baldwin County recount had put Riley over the finish line. State and county Democrats quickly requested another Baldwin County recount with Democratic observers present, as well as a statewide recount. But before the Baldwin County Democratic Party canvassing board could act, Alabama's Republican Attorney General William Pryor had the ballots sealed. Unless Siegelman filed an election contest in the courts, Pryor said, state county canvassing boards did not have the authority "to break the seals on ballots and machines under section 17-9-31" of the state constitution.

http://www.alternet.org/news/92158/?ses=872d984a688a9f461cdcbcfaf1bbe608

This is information DU used to know -- before Obama took office.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. We're probably not supposed to read Alternet anymore.
It might expose us to heresy and false doctrine.

Better stick to whitehouse.gov from now on.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. Mr. Siegelman was indicted by a federal grand jury and convicted by a jury of his peers
He has yet to convince a single judge, the Democratic Attorney General, or President Obama, that he is innocent.

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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. What a load.
Edited on Thu Sep-15-11 01:05 PM by Hissyspit
Yeah, that makes him guilty. :eyes:

52 former state attorney generals said there was no crime.

AND two convictions were overturned on appeal.

Your juvenile happy happy Obama and Holder can never do ANYTHING wrong viewpoint is naive at best, ultimately counterproductive for the administration in the middle, and makes Karl Rove smile at worst.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. How many convictions were not overturned on appeal?
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. That's not the point.
But you know that.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Being acquitted of some crimes does not absolve you from other crimes
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Being found guilty of crimes doesn't make you guilty of crimes.
Ask Troy Davis.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. That's Mr. Davis' story
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
52. Don Siegelman's trial was a national disgrace.
That the Obama administration has done nothing to remedy the situation is a second one.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. God forbid someone be convicted by a jury of his peers
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. I hope you simply forgot the sarcasm tag.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. Nope
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. He's the Democrat who President Obama has entrusted to carry out his education policy
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Yes, we know...
Obama's education policy is something of a sore point with many.

No Child's Behind Left on steroids I think I've heard it referred to as.

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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. The programs are completely different
NCLB punishes states which do not do certain things. RTTT rewards states which do certain things. Carrot vs. stick.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Two parallel roads to the same destination..
Corporatizing the schools.

This really irks the crap out of me, I have three grandchildren and I really don't want them sold to the lowest bidder in a corporate race to the lowest common denominator.

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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #32
58. Then send you grandkids to a public school
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
34. What a nasty thing to say.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. The truth hurts sometimes
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Utter bilge.
Obama can only be defended with right-wing nonsense? What is your purpose in posting this stuff?
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Nonsense? Mr. Siegelman is a convicted felon. That is a fact.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Oh, good grief.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #39
56. welcome to ignore.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. I suppose that's easier than having to encounter differing opinions backed by by logical arguments
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
35. Oh for Christ's sake...
You have to be shitting us.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Nope. It's important 'drain the swamp' regardless of what party they belong to
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Kingofalldems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. You seem to like it when Democrats get in trouble
Edited on Thu Sep-15-11 02:54 PM by Kingofalldems
And have endless posts about them. Why is that?
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 03:04 PM
Original message
Your attempt to discern my likes and dislikes is a failure
What do I like? Sending corrupt politicians to jail.

I find it disturbing that some people do all sorts of mental gymnastics in order to defend the unethical and/or criminal behavior of some politicians just because they happen to have a D next to their name. Doing such only harms the party.
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Kingofalldems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
53. So the 52 DAs are practicing mental gymnastics?
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. I think that you mean former state attorneys general
They are politicians, and politicians do not like the federal honest services fraud statute. It has made it much easier to send corrupt politicians to jail.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. delete
Edited on Thu Sep-15-11 03:04 PM by Freddie Stubbs
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. Plain old moral cowardice
would explain a lot.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. Obama uses religious shorthand to substitue for a moral
compass. He's one of those who blathers about how gay people are not up to his God's snuff, and he thinks that suffices as the full sum of his morality.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
14. It's in the Bermuda Triangle and spinning wildly. nt
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
15. They feared a coup??!!
This is the first I've heard that and would love if someone could post some links with more info. I don't think it was an irrational fear given the criminality of the Bush administration. I often wonder if the Obama administration was directly or indirectly threatened.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Here you go.
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Kingofalldems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
18. Uh oh here come the republicans to chime in
Edited on Wed Sep-14-11 03:47 PM by Kingofalldems
K and R
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. He sold it to Goldman Sachs
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
21. Who knew that Obama would be such a coward? nt
Edited on Thu Sep-15-11 09:14 AM by mistertrickster
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
28. Alas, his moral compass only points to R.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
31. If you think of Obama as a stealth Republican, it explains everything.
Edited on Thu Sep-15-11 10:37 AM by immoderate
A good fit. :)

--imm
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
48. 'do not have a right not to be framed'
That is worthy of Bush's torture lawyers' twisted manipulations of the law to make torture legal.

Unbelievable and to think we were so full of hope that this kind of thing was going to change!

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