PIC: one law for 1% another for 99%

[yurbud]

[undergroundpanther]

1. So True

and so injust it's enough to make your stomach turn. US capitalist pigs& toadys=EVIL

[dkf]

2. Hello he robbed a bank.

[Sirveri]

4. Yes, those scum bag bankers love to rob our banks of our money.

[dkf]

9. It's the threat of force that gets you in more trouble.

[PA Democrat]

12. This is a prime example of why mandatory sentencing guidelines

are such BS.

You'd think that justice should take into account the overall damage incurred to society as the result of a crime.

Whose crime hurt society more? The hungry man who stole only $100 when he could have taken more and then turned himself in? Or the mega-millionaire whose insatiable greed cost multitudes of people their retirement savings, their jobs and helped push the entire world economy off the cliff?

[dkf]

13. That was probably pretty traumatizing to the people in the bank and their families.

To be threatened with being shot and killed can screw someone up I imagine.

[PA Democrat]

15. Sure, I've had firsthand experience.

I worked as a bank teller and was robbed many years ago. It is not a fun experience, but then neither is losing your home, your ability to provide food and shelter for your family as a result of the greed of people who already have more than they need.

[dkf]

25. The point is you can't minimize a crime because of the amount taken if there are other

Circumstances like violence involved.

I don't argue that Allen shouldn't have had a longer sentence but that people are pooh poohing bank robbery because of the amount taken. That seems kind of twisted.

[PA Democrat]

34. Questioning whether society should spend almost a half million

dollars to incarcerate this man for 15 years is not "pooh poohing" the crime. And to be precise there was no violence involved.

[The Doctor.]

43. You seem a little detached from reality.

He had no gun. He took only what he needed. That hundred dollar bill was insured. If even a few people were traumatized, I'm sure that's awful.

The fuckjob who had control of other people's uninsured money screwed up far more lives and caused far more trauma than one poor, unarmed man could even dream of.

No one is 'pooh-poohing' bank robbery, just the remarkably harsh sentence the man received despite the facts of the case.

[Muskypundit]

59. Complete bullshit. You go into prison to rehabilitate, not punish.

If that guy took only enough money to survive and go to a detox center to better himself, gives the remaining money back, and eventually turns himself in because of guilt.... that is not a man who needs to go to jail. He needs no rehabilitation.

Those fucking bankers show no remorse for crimes a million times worse, and get tiny slaps on the wrist.

Need I remind you of the story of the banker who killed a woman while drunk driving, and only ended up paying a less than 1000 dollar fine. There are two sets of laws, one of them, and another harsher set for the 99.

[kenfrequed]

21. As opposd to...

The trauma of:
Losing your job and having to go on public assistance
Losing yoru home
Sending your children to school in second hand clothing
Being unable to find work
Having other people driven to acts of criminal desperation because of this
The stress put on a family that has fallen on hard times
Being unable to afford medical care after having lost your home, job, whatever else.
The trauma of losing yoru retirement and or pension.
The difficulty of having to support your parents because they lost their retirement.
Neighborhoods collapsing.
Kids going hungry.
The highest child poverty rate in decades.


So lets keep some goddamned perspective here, shall we?

[dkf]

26. Losing your job? You mean the employees of Allen's firm?

I'm sure everyone knew what was going on. They are kind of lucky they weren't all thrown in jail.

[Exilednight]

63. How many other people lost their jobs that didn't work at his firm because of his

robbery? What about the business people who invested with Allen and had to shut down their business and lay off their employees because Allen stole all their money?

Only Republicans argue that this is a victimless crime and only hurt the rich, but the fact is, it hurts an entire chain in the economy.

[kenfrequed]

64. Wow

Really? You think this economic downturn hasn't cost anyone else any jobs? What sort of economic conservative bubble are you living in?

[EOTE]

22. But I'm sure the victims who lost a total of 3 billion weren't traumatized at all.

Christ, do you think about what you're saying before you post?

[dkf]

28. The investors and the taxpayers?

“Lee Farkas … masterminded one of the largest bank fraud schemes in history,” Mr. Breuer said. “His shockingly brazen scheme poured fuel on the fire of the financial crisis. … Mr. Farkas may have thought he could steal nearly $3 billion from investors and taxpayers and sail into the sunset. But now a jury has told him otherwise, and he must face the severe consequences.”

Lee Farkas was the true driver of the scheme so this is the same offense Allen is being charged with.

Well it's nice of you to feel sorry for investors instead of disliking them for being rich.

[EOTE]

30. You're damned right.

You're suggesting I shouldn't care because it's investors and tax payers that got fucked over? Do you really not give a damn about these people fucking us over in perpetuity? Christ.

[dkf]

32. BB & T took over colonial. Deutsche Bank and BNP Paribas were the other victims.

Allen was chief executive at Ocala, Fla.-based Taylor Bean & Whitaker, which collapsed in 2009 after the criminal investigation became public, resulting in its 2,000 employees losing their jobs. The fraud also contributed to the collapse of Alabama-based Colonial Bank – the sixth largest bank failure in U.S. history – after Colonial bought hundreds of millions of dollars in Taylor Bean mortgages that had already been sold to other investors.

Two other banks – Deutsche Bank and BNP Paribas – lost nearly $2 billion after buying corporate paper from Taylor Bean that was not properly backed with collateral, authorities said.

http://compliancesearch.com/compliancex/jail-sentence/paul-allen-ex-mortgage-ceo-sentenced-to-prison-for-3b-fraud-2/

http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/press/2009/pr09143.html

Yup and sympathy not only for investors but specifically banks! I'm glad you aren't discounting this.

[EOTE]

33. What is your problem?

You're excusing a 3 BILLION dollar theft simply because you don't like the victims? That's sickening. Absolutely disgusting.

[dkf]

40. Au contraire.

I applaud your outrage.

[Tsiyu]

55. You're still here?

Don't you have some cocktail party to attend? Some poor people to make fun of?

Why are you hanging out with us?

[OnyxCollie]

48. This board has become redundant.

There is already one Free Republic.

[chervilant]

58. Apparently not...

and, not just on this OP, either...

[a2liberal]

45. I can't honestly say I know more about the robbery but

the article sure makes it sound like a very quiet one, and NOT a guy running in screaming at everyone to put their hands up and pointing a gun at them.

[liberation]

51. Did you even read the account of the robbery in this case?

Or are you just making it up as you go to fit your narrative?

[Marrah_G]

65. I would submit the damage done to families by bankers is far greater

We have things very twisted in this country. First off that man should not be homeless or hungry. This sort of crap happens over and over. Think any poor, homeless woman would get the breaks Lindsay Lohan has gotten?

There are two very different legal systems in this country.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

54. I think it also ran into "three strikes you're out."

The black guy had a bunch of priors. They went a long way towards getting him a sentence that long.

[chervilant]

57. Please, please, please...

avoid debating anyone whose comments reek of eau de troll...

[rapturedbyrobots]

14. bullshit.

Its the combination of upsetting the standard narrative and good ol boys scratching each others backs.

1) It's not shocking for rich people to commit fraud. that's essentially what they're supposed to do...take as much money as possible. if one of them bends the rules a little in the process, yeah...people's sense of 'fairness' take a small hit, but it's EXPECTED to happen every so often and does not shock the conscience. Poor people on the other hand are not supposed to steal, even if they are homeless & starving. They're just supposed to stay poor until they work hard enough to not be poor (just ask Herman Cain...or the people 'looting' grocery stores after Katrina).

2) Even in situations where crimes are the same, rich people get preferential treatment. Now this is anecdotal, and all the caveats come with it, but it was one of the most eye opening experiences I've seen in terms of the criminal justice system. I went to bail a friend out of jail and sat through his arraignment / setting of bail. It was a group thing, they bring out about 20 guys (all black or brown, except 2). 9 of 10 are there on drug possession charges. All the people of color on drug charges get bail set over $20K...which none of them can cover. As an aside one guy (black) got bail set at $250,000(!!!) for a gun possession charge (the unlicensed gun he used to protect his convenience store). But back to the drugs...the poor white guy's (i mean poor as in working poor...really poor) father was there pleading for him, to no avail. Bail set same as everyone else. The RICH white guy's parents also came. The father introduced himself as DOCTOR so and so...and literally asks the judge to release his son on his own recognizance (NO BAIL)...so that he won't miss the family vacation. I am not shitting you...that was the reason. Worst part is the judge granted it. No questions. The one person who could ACTUALLY AFFORD to post bail, was let off for FREE, to go on vacation.

And that's how privilege works in the US criminal 'justice' system.

[bvar22]

19. Paulson handed an Extortion Note to the American People

that threatened mayhem and violence.

Paulson with Co-Conspirators

Now THATS Bi-partisanship.
Better get Used to It!




You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[yurbud]

31. that pissed me off more than all of the Bush stuff combined--they dropped the pretense of needing

the money for wars or anything else just made it bold-faced extortion.

Paulson should be in prison for the rest of his life, as should all the execs on Wall Street who were in on the derivatives scam and came up with the bailout one.

[Marie Marie]

46. Yes that is true but when you have power and connections, you don't need force

It is only the powerless that have to resort to force. Not condoning his actions at all but the disparity in those penalties speak volumes.

[girl gone mad]

5. Correct. He robbed Deutsche Bank and BNP Pariba of over $2 Billion dollars..

then later tried to get $500 million in TARP funds.

And he only got 3 years. He'll probably be out in less than 1.

[Tunkamerica]

6. Hello. Yes we all read the same thing. There should at least be parity.

[dkf]

10. I have no problem leaving the fraudster in jail longer

But I also see why first degree robbery where there is a threat of violence gets a stiffer sentence than fraud.

[rapturedbyrobots]

16. Where does it say

He threatened anyone with death or violence. It says he walked in, and having/showing no actual gun, said it was a robbery.

You call that violence?

“Poverty is the worst form of violence.” Mahatma Gandhi

[Fla_Democrat]

42. Yes

:smoke:

[Scuba]

11. So did the other guy.

[yurbud]

29. he should have used a bank to rob other people

[devilgrrl]

44. I know! For Billions and he only got 40 months - it's outrageous!

:popcorn:

[SomethingFishy]

60. Yeah.. and he only took what he needed and then he turned

himself in the next day. 15 years isn't a little harsh for that? 15 years? You are cold blooded.

[jackfuller86]

62. And turned himself in the very next day

And on top of that, stole at least to try to keep himself drug-free.

Meanwhile, Paul R. Allen committed a $3 billion dollar scheme of fraud, did not turn himself in, was caught and only said he was sorry after he was caught, but before his sentencing.

The bank robber in Louisiana admits his mistake, does what's honorable after the fact & gets a 15 year sentence over $100. To be adequately compared to him, Allen would have had to have gone before the SEC after his first million dollar fraud and said "Gee guys, I'm sorry I messed up. I guess I just got desperate for money trying to maintain my house in Boca, my townhouse and my summer home in the Hamptons."

Instead, he ran up $3 billion in fraud and would have done more damage if he had been allowed to get away with it. And he's getting just over a third of the time as the bank robber is getting, all probably in some minimum security resort while some guy who temporarily stole a $100 from a bank for 24 hours is going to have his life ruined by this with a criminal record, money owed to the state when he gets out and statistically a recidivist nature from that environment.

[xchrom]

3. Recommend

[The Wizard]

7. White justice in black robes.

A system skewed to protect the biggest thieves will wither and die on the vine.

[yurbud]

37. hopefully the thieves will wither with it.

[pnorman]

8. I'm saving that!

k & r!

[PETRUS]

17. kick nt

[mod mom]

18. Rec'd This OP would make a great sign for OWS..ie the 2 articles cut out

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. Courts tend to give harsher sentences to those who use violence or the threat of violence

[EOTE]

23. The first man stole 30 MILLION times the amount of the second man.

Yet got 1/5th the time. And the second man actually turned himself in. If you think that's anywhere approaching fair, I don't think you have a decent sense of justice.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

24. And they tend to give slaps on the wrist to those who create the conditions

that lead to poverty which in many cases leads to violence. So what's your fucking point again?

[GiveMeFreedom]

27. I do not know who said it,

The best way to rob a bank? Own one. Justice in this country is based on your financial ability to pay the legal system. Fuckers!!!

[FarLeftFist]

35. Who's more of a threat to our society? Not the homeless guy.

[Mosaic]

47. That is exactly the point

Thanks for summing it up. Much more needs to be done for all the wall street crooks. There is much work to do!

[progressoid]

36. Rec.

[Hutzpa]

38. This is another case for covert prejudice

there is a reason to defend such act that is what covert prejudice is all about, it's
about creating a scenario that can be defended.

Accusation cannot be made out rightly.

In this instance the disparity is despicably obvious.

You can also notice a difference in reporting, the image of the $100 man is on the report
but for some unknown reason the image of the $3b CEO is conspicuously missing, is it
deliberate? maybe? is it a mistake? can be, but this is exactly what covert prejudice is.

[redqueen]

39. Butbutbut... rich people are *better* than other people.

So we have to treat them as such. Poor people, on the other hand, deserve to be poor, because they're bad, so they should be treated more harshly.


(Why so many people still think this way is beyond me.)

[slay]

41. Who wouldn't risk 40 months in prison for $3 billion -- we need super harsh Wall St laws and

we also need to stop giving out crazy sentences like 15 years for stealing a $100 bill. WTF man i mean seriously - WTF.

[and-justice-for-all]

49. That is ass backwards...nt

[JDPriestly]

50. This contrast is just a little more extreme that what many people

are experiencing right now. It is very difficult for those in the 1% to fully understand how privileged they are.

Paul Allen, of all defendants, getting such a light sentence.

According to a statement of facts submitted with his plea agreement, Allen joined TBW in 2003 as its CEO and reported directly to its chairman. He admitted in court that from 2005 through August 2009, he and other co-conspirators engaged in a scheme to defraud financial institutions that had invested in a wholly owned lending facility called Ocala Funding. Ocala Funding raised money by selling asset-backed commercial paper to financial institutions, including Deutsche Bank and BNP Paribas, and used the money to purchase TBW mortgages. The facility was managed by TBW and had no employees of its own.

According to court records, shortly after Ocala Funding was established, Allen learned there were inadequate assets backing its commercial paper, a deficiency referred to internally at TBW as a "hole" in Ocala Funding. Allen admitted that in an effort to cover up the "hole" and to mislead investors, he told a co-conspirator to produce reports that concealed the "hole." He also admitted that he knew that these misleading reports were sent to Ocala Funding investors and other third parties. Allen also admitted in court that he kept the chairman of TBW informed of the collateral shortfall, and that in the fall of 2008, Allen was told that the "hole" had been moved from Ocala Funding to Colonial Bank. At the time that TBW ceased operations, the "hole" was approximately $1.5 billion. According to court documents, as a result of the Ocala Funding fraud scheme, Freddie Mac, Colonial Bank and Ocala Funding investors believed they had an undivided ownership interest in thousands of the same mortgage loans.

Court records state that in March 2009, Allen was directed to approach two private equity investors to secure capital to meet a $300 million private capital requirement the U.S. Department of Treasury set for Colonial Bank to receive $553 million from the Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP). Although Allen failed to secure the funding from the investors, he admitted in court that the TBW chairman and he represented to others that the investors were each $50 million participants and that the chairman diverted $25 million from Ocala Funding to an escrow account in the investors' names. This deception caused Colonial Bank to falsely announce publicly it had met its $300 million capital raise contingency and to send a letter to the FDIC that all investors had met a 10 percent escrow deposit requirement. Colonial Bank never received any TARP funds. In court, Allen also admitted to making false statements in a letter he sent to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, through Ginnie Mae, regarding TBW's audited financial statements for the fiscal year ending on March 31, 2009. In this letter, Allen omitted that the delay in submitting the financial data was attributed to concerns its independent auditor had raised about the financing relationship between TBW and Colonial Bank. Instead, Allen falsely attributed the delay to a new acquisition and TBW's switch to a compressed 11-month fiscal year.

Related Cases: In a related case,United States v. Lee Bentley Farkas, defendant Farkas, the former owner and TBW chairman, was convicted after a jury trial in April 2011 on one count of conspiracy to commit bank, wire and securities fraud; six counts of bank fraud; four counts of wire fraud; and three counts of securities fraud. Farkas was remanded into custody after the trial and is scheduled to be sentenced on June 30, 2011 at 10:30 a.m. in Courtroom 600 before Judge Brinkema. Farkas was arrested in June 2010 and charged in a 16-count indictment for his role in the fraud scheme. In February and March 2011,Raymond Bowman, former TBW president; Desiree Brown, the former TBW treasurer; Catherine Kissick, a former senior vice president of Colonial Bank and head of Colonial Bank's Mortgage Warehouse Lending Division (MWLD); Teresa Kelly, a former operations supervisor at MWLD, and Sean Ragland, a senior financial analyst in TBW's Accounting Department, each pleaded guilty to separate criminal informations charging each with conspiracy for their roles in various phases of a fraudulent scheme to defraud financial institutions through the misappropriation of funds. On June 10, 2011, defendant Bowman and defendant Brown were sentenced to 30 months in prison and 72 months in prison, respectively. On June 17, 2011, defendant Kissick and defendant Kelly were sentenced to eight years in prison followed by three years of supervised release and three months in prison followed by three years of supervised release, including nine months of home confinement, respectively. On June 21, 2011, defendant Ragland was sentenced to 3 months in prison and 2 years of supervised release, including 9 months of home confinement.

http://www.justice.gov/criminal/vns/caseup/allenp.html

Talk about a double-standard. Maximum for these guys was 8 yrs in prison and three years supervised release plus 3 months following the supervised release. This sentence will probably be shortened for good behavior.

I don't want to see anyone suffer in jail, but the disparity in these sentences parallels the disparity in the wealth of the parties sentenced.

[scentopine]

52. We need to start serving up punishment against banks and their "centrist" apologists -nt

[lunasun]

53. at first i glanced over then read the homeless man's story

Louisinna sure is harsh.

I know ...some will say good riddanc e but the cost will be much higher than $100 to keep him in prison

wtf

[yurbud]

66. If you are poor and live in the South, when you get $100, buy a bus ticket North and be glad

you made it out with your life.

[scentopine]

56. A troubled homeless man demands money from bank. Takes one penny, gives it back next day. 15 years?

After all he robbed a bank. $.01, $1, $100 it's all the same. Right?

You have two choices-

1. Righteous outrage at two obvious injustices, one cruel punishment for a petty crime, the other a slap on the wrist for massive fraud that had obvious impact on thousands of people?

-or-

2. Arrogant, indifferent apathy about a troubled (by his own admission, he is in detox) homeless man took $100 from a bank and gave it back after turning himself into police, while defending the sentence of 15 years as reasonable for this heinous crime?

If you pick choice #2,

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING HERE?

Are they out of accounts at freeperville or is the DLC's facebook page no longer accepting friends?

Now to take the scumsucking neo-bible approach, there is no financial incentive to *not* use a real gun and steal every last fucking dime in the bank robbery because there is no mercy from the court. The guy who takes $.01 and gives it back, and the guy who takes $500,000 and keeps it, are going to do minimum 15 years.

Neo-libs are always ready to defend Wall Street on the backs of the poor. Tea baggers and neo-libs are kissing cousins working under a policyy of don't ask, don't tell.

[avaistheone1]

61. Bookmarked and recommended.

:thumbsup:


:kick:

k&r

[yurbud]

67. sadly, the best comparison would be worse: Lloyd Blankfein not being prosecuted at all

or Hank Paulson for delivering Wall Street's ransom note to America.