Just back from Occupy Portland. Not impressed with the "protesters".

[eeyore]

I just got home from checking out Occupy Portland, and what I witnessed does not bode well. Thousands gathered, many just there because they heard there might be a riot. Lots of people looking to cause damage to property and hoping to antagonize the cops. Crowd was chanting "bring on the riot gear".

This is a fucking mess, and I really feel sorry for the police. I know that's not a sentiment that many here want to hear, but this city has been incredibly tolerant of the Occupy movement. The crime around Occupy has gotten out of control, and the city has no choice at this point but to disperse.

I fully support the Occupy movement, but Portland has shifted from a message-based situation to a gathering of people who are literally goading the police. They have been stockpiling rocks, making weapons, and are digging in to do combat with the police who have been working for the past 36 days to keep their camp safe and active.

This is really fucked.

[Fire Walk With Me]

1. :(

I'm unhappy to learn that...aren't the protesters rejecting them, shouting them down, as in the other protests I've watched?

[girl gone mad]

2. ...

[joshcryer]

3. Hooliganism is part and parcel to any large gathering of people.

The fact that it hasn't turned into a riot even with violent arrested, a reported gun being drawn by a presumed hooligan, proves that the overall sentiment of the people is to peacefully protest.

Meanwhile the bloc may prove useful if the police pull out the tear gas and start firing it at peaceful protesters.

[eeyore]

13. Not my experience, unfortunately.

I was in the thick of the crowd, and the vast majority have never been to the camp. They are there because they are hoping for a riot. When I witness thousands of people screaming "bring on the riot gear" in the faces of completely calm police, I can't help but feel for the cops. The people downtown right now are looking for a fight, and the cops and Mayor Sam Adams are doing everything they can to not respond. If there is a fight, I put it squarely on the people who are asking for it.

As for the bloc, fuck them. They have no respect for this city. There is absolutely no cause to attack the Portland Police. This has, so far, been one of the more peaceful Occupy camps in the country, and that has everything to do with the way the city has reacted. The bloc is looking to start shit, and the city is having none of it.

[joshcryer]

19. The camp has no chance of success without numbers.

While I will agree with you that a large number of people are not your average occupier they have a purpose and it's necessary. The camp would've been completely taken over in minutes if it wasn't for the masses of people.

Hell, they just said on the live stream that they need more people!

Meanwhile if you were getting tear gassed you'd be glad that any sort of bloc actions would deviate the police actions to them as opposed to the peaceful protesters. I am not advocating it, mind you, I am merely making an observation about said usefulness of such abhorrent behavior.

[socialist_n_TN]

61. Yep Josh. That's the same observation that I've made

all along. And I'm decidedly NOT an anarchist.

[sabrina 1]

28. No, they are not there for a riot. This was organized to prevent

another police riot. Thousands of people came to protect the Portland occupiers from the police.

Another DUer is there and seems to have a very different opinion, he went to support the occupiers prepared to get arrested as this was what was expected.

[piratefish08]

49. he larger crowd is serving a purpose, directly tied to OWS or not.

it's a civil movement now - you want it to remain a block party.....

these movements will evolve as they grow - these are growing pains.......

[LeighAnn]

4. Making a point

Admittedly, I'm only watching it on KGW and Livestream (from Kansas City...if I were there I would be there)

I think that crowd has done a magnificent job of restraining themselves. The sheer number of people there is completely amazing!

They are making a point that THEY TELL THE GOVERNMENT WHAT TO DO and not vice-versa. They are proving for the world to see that the people own the streets

[Fire Walk With Me]

7. "They are making a point that THEY TELL THE GOVERNMENT WHAT TO DO..."

I am so proud of them I just don't know what to say aside from that :)

[LeighAnn]

9. Never been prouder.

I'm watching history tonight :)

http://www.kgw.com/live-stream

[sabrina 1]

14. Me too, it's about time the people stood up to the bullying of

this government. Took far too long.

I am so proud of them. This OP forgets the fact that it was those in power who sent out an army of police to attack citizens who were doing nothing wrong.

[Fire Walk With Me]

17. The way LeighAnn put it a few posts back really hit it home for me.

The news people on KGW caught the joyous energy and their veneer broke and the conversation started...they're so caught up in government-level propaganda that they don't even KNOW that THEY run the government...but they'll be waking up soon :)

[sabrina 1]

38. I usually watch the Global Revolution livestream for these

events as the MSM is pretty awful. Eg, the woman reporter keeps saying that 'most of these people are not with the protest, just wandering down to see what is going on'! Lol, at 3AM in the morning, people are just wandering around the city?

They are so bad, after you stop watching for a while they just sound so dumb. Fortunately there are many citizen journalists now who report the facts, and don't just make stuff up as she is doing. She has not even spoken to them, but she 'knows' they are just curiosity seekers. Since when do thousands of people wander around in the middle of the night?

I hope you're right, that they do wake up soon, but you have more faith in them than I do.

[Fire Walk With Me]

47. Well, waking up is hard to do (sorry) but it's the trend.

For some reason I stayed with audio from KGW.com, as every other time I was also on the protester's feeds. I don't know why I did that, and they did say a couple of exceptionally uncomfortable things, but they have been saying how peaceful and positive the protesters have been, they just did again right now, and have been talking about all of the important things #Occupy sought to bring to attention. I doubt I've ever heard as much about these things on MSM, across my entire life, as I have tonight during this coverage. They have been quite complimentary. (I switched audio to the Fox 12 livestream for a while and they are in total fear, unquestionably; the KGW feed is entirely different and I'm actually proud of them...however odd it is to say that.)

I hope that made sense, I'm burned up and can barely think :rofl::hi:

[sabrina 1]

48. Well, that is definitely good to hear, I stopped watching

when I heard say the people there were not part of the protest, just wandering around. I guess I am so used to how bad they are, I didn't expect much else. But really am glad to hear they did a pretty good job. There may still be hope!

[sabrina 1]

15. Me too, it's about time the people stood up to the bullying of

this government. Took far too long.

I am so proud of them. This OP forgets the fact that it was those in power who sent out an army of police to attack citizens who were doing nothing wrong.

[eeyore]

20. Bullshit.

This so called army of police is standing very calmly while the crowd tries to goad them into violence. I saw it, I heard it, and it was real. You don't scream "bring on the riot gear" as a peaceful approach.

You have no idea who "those in power" are in Portland. Those in power, include our out gay mayor and a city council full of liberals who have voiced support for the movement. Portand's government is DU's dream team. Don't' vilify what you don't know.

[joshcryer]

21. I heard "I don't see no riot here, take off the riot gear."

So I think you are extrapolating on the basis of a few hooligan statements and not the crowd as a whole.

[eeyore]

31. The cops are wearing riot gear for good reason.

Occupy campers have tipped them off that the camp has been stockpiling rocks to throw at them. Just yesterday they hauled away a truck load of rocks that had been dropped at the camp in anticipation of tonight. An occupy camper set off a molotov cocktail a few days ago. Campers have been making weapons with boards and nails. Tonight someone threw firecrackers at mounted patrol horses.

The cops are protecting themselves from the idiots who are looking for a fight.

[joshcryer]

36. Do you have any video or image evidence to back up these allegations?

[Fire Walk With Me]

37. One of those, I wonder if he was actually part of the encampment:

Now...they're walking him away, neither dragging nor forcing. Is he known to the police?

[county worker]

41. I have been watching the live stream for about 4 hours and nothing like that has happened

on the live stream.


I heard a couple people got sprayed with pepper spray or something that's all.

[joshcryer]

43. Thousands of people don't scream "bring out the riot gear" without some sort of massive...

...escalation. I find it very hard to believe "thousands" of people did that.

[county worker]

44. They were saying "I don't see no riot here, take off the riot gear"

or something like that

[joshcryer]

45. Yep, see #21.

OP either heard wrong or heard something from a few hooligans who were just wanting some drama and who don't represent the crowd as a whole.

Never ever underestimate the wisdom of the crowd, and appreciate those people who did show up even if they're not perfect individuals, because their presence helped avert an end to Occupy Portland.

[dkf]

52. Isn't that what voting is supposed to do?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

54. And what if it doesn't?

[dkf]

55. Wouldn't that be the fault of the people?

Personally I think a lot of Americans just don't give a damn.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

60. You're saying that in an "Occupy" thread.

That's an action that is pretty "give a damn."


:shrug:

[dkf]

63. For a minority.

If occupiers are the only ones who give a damn then we are really in trouble.

[MichaelMcGuire]

5. .

It could be they feel the need to defend against the like of this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8BHp7r8USg&feature=player_embedded

[LeighAnn]

6. Amazing response!!!

I've never seen anything like this in my lifetime. For you to have been there and not feel good about what you were a part of is astonishing to me. Look who's trying to be the bully here (and not succeeding on account of the sheer number). The city drew the line in the sand. They issued the eviction thereby inciting the whole situation tonight.

[eeyore]

16. The cops have been amazing, and most there are very peaceful

I just can't get behind people shouting "bring on the riot gear" in the faces of cops who are standing down. This city has been amazingly open to the movement, and our mayor and city council have all voiced support. There is no reason for people to incite our police into a showdown. The brilliant thing is, our city isn't going to react like Oakland and Denver. Those looking for a fight aren't going to get it.

I hope for peace, but there is a strong element downtown right now who is not looking for peace. I hope it ends well. I really do.

[LeighAnn]

32. Me too

I hope it ends well, but it's already a victory for the people. I hope when you've slept on it you are proud that you were a part of it.

[MedleyMisty]

8. I'm listening to them chant "Peace! Peace! Peace!"

Huh.

I've heard "There is no riot here, take off the riot gear" and "You're sexy, you're cute, take off your riot suit." I've also heard "Peaceful protest, peaceful protest!" and "non - violence, non - violence!"

I guess you saw a part that hasn't been shown on livefeed or on the MSM feeds, but what I've seen on livefeed seems like a very different part of the protest.

[grasswire]

10. didn't look like that from the footage

there are bad apples in any group

[backscatter712]

11. Seeing an entirely different event on the livestream.

People chanting "PEACE!" and "You're sexy! You're cute! Take off your riot suit!"

[grasswire]

12. police are telling media that occupiers are respectful and peaceful n/t

[MichaelMcGuire]

27. I have to concur

Looking at the live feed and what I can see. They don't look that unfriendly and don't seem to support the OP.

[county worker]

18. The live stream does not support what you say

[eeyore]

22. I was there, and I saw what I saw.

Thousands of people yelling "bring on the riot gear" at cops who are standing down is not a peaceful act. Wearing gas masks and carrying bottled water is not what someone who is expecting peace does. People have shown up expecting a riot, and they are frustrated that the cops aren't giving them one.

[joshcryer]

24. Wearing gas masks and carrying water forces the police to reconsider their actions.

The police have apparently done so given that they've de-escalated.

[Fumesucker]

25. Post the video and we'll make our own judgments ..

:shrug:

[county worker]

30. Watch the live stream

http://www.occupystreams.org/item/occupy-portland

[MedleyMisty]

29. If thousands of people were yelling that

even if it wasn't on the livestream you can bet it would be on the MSM.

Also, if I was going I'd take a gas mask. Not because I expected a riot, but because I expected tear gas. You do realize that ever since the first crackdown on Oakland people have been passing around information on gas masks on Twitter and that veterans have been donating gas masks to protesters, right?

[joshcryer]

33. Goggles at the minimum are a must-have. Gas masks are useful, but cause police to...

...think that it's more "OK" to utilize tear gas, since "you asked for it" etc. If I were to bring one it would be stowed, and not worn.

[Douglas Carpenter]

23. The police Chief just told the KATU-TV Reporter that almost everyone has been very peaceful

http://www.katu.com/news/live

[joshcryer]

26. Yep, the only take-away from this is the overall peacefullness of the event.

The guy who got arrested was a turning point, if things were going to go bad, it would've been then. An injured police officer raises a lot of emotions.

[Gman]

34. Sometimes democracy isn't very pretty

It wasn't pretty in 1776 either.

[Fire Walk With Me]

35. KGW.com reports that the protesters were stressing, at a GA, the word "De-escalate, de-escalate, de-

escalate..." Edit: Tonight at #Portland, that is.

[eeyore]

39. Agreed

The occupy GA was saying that. The problem I saw was that the bars had let out, and the streets were filling with people who had heard there was going to be a riot. I have faith that our mayor and police won't let the drunk idiots overtake the situation. I'm really proud of how Portland has dealt with Occupy so far. I just hope that those looking to get arrested don't escalate too dramatically.

[joshcryer]

40. You may want to go back and look at how Denver went down.

The occupy Denver group was only a few dozen strong, maybe a hundred at most. They were going to be evicted but the call was made and hundreds if not thousands of people showed up. The riot gear came out. Hooligans were certainly present. But the camp was saved.

Occupy Denver was actually hit last night, 16 arrested. Why? Because the thousands of people weren't there to make the police think twice.

[cliffordu]

59. One arrested in PDX last night.

Because everyone talked to each other.

The idea that a large crowd can make the Police stand down is patently false.

[Fire Walk With Me]

46. Early on KGW.com mentioned police worries about the bars emptying into the protest...

...2:00 came and went and I forgot to give it another thought...

[icymist]

42. Dude, you don't seem to be at the same place I was monitoring:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2297142
This seemed to go off pretty peaceful. What exactly are you talking about that the livestream didn't cover?

[redqueen]

50. Drunks that wandered out of bars

which the OP referred to as protesters. (post 39)

[icymist]

53. What i saw was peaceful, and that was well past three am...

I'm not sure what you saw, but since that I've been up all through the night monitoring the situation, I may as well go to bed now. Good night, er, day!

[Harmony Blue]

51. When the police even disputes the OP's claims

you know something is off. :rofl:

[Downwinder]

56. Why is Portland a focal point?

[cliffordu]

57. Bullshit. One fuckface threw something at the cops

and the crowd served him right up to the police.

People I know who went down went for the right reasons and if you didn't see any of them,

Well...tough fucking shit.

One arrest and the crowd is now helping clean up the mess.

Shame on you for this teabbagerish distortion of what REALLY happened.

[coalition_unwilling]

58. DUer Romulox completely and utterly disagrees with your

assessment, a disagreement shared by many if not most on this thread including me and I've been following Occupy Portland closely for the past few days. Yours is decidedly a minority view.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2296536&mesg_id=2297845

[bullwinkle428]

62. Just a slight correction - the DUer in question is Rabblevox, not Romulox.

Just wanted to make sure to give credit where it's due! :toast: