Just get rid of the damned star.

[Ruby the Liberal]

Astonished and saddened to see the outrage (and second class citizen accusations) being flung about today. Never gave it a second thought before witnessing this. The last time I cared about a star, I was like, 5, but whatever. I donate in order to help offset costs so that the site remains free for all to read/use, not for recognition.

Give the benes to entice donations/subscriptions and take down (what is apparently perceived as) the per post billboard and be done with it.

[Fumesucker]

1. It's not the star, I just went months without one, someone was nice enough to donate to me recently.

It's the attitudes being displayed on a nominally "liberal" website to those who are still temporarily embarrassed millionaires.

“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” (Steinbeck)

[Ruby the Liberal]

2. Fume - what attitude?

All I am seeing is drama and outrage about voices being 'shut out' and the perception of second class citizens (the latter, I actually picked up from you on a thread you started on this earlier).

If the star is what apparently differentiates one poster from another to so many, then ditch it.

[Fumesucker]

6. People are making jokes about those who are not going to be able to contribute at that rate..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2302938

[Ruby the Liberal]

8. Again, "If the star is what apparently differentiates one poster from another to so many, then

ditch it"

[Fumesucker]

11. I don't care one way or the other about the star, I don't even notice them most of the time..

My point was about the remarkably illiberal attitudes displayed by some here on DU towards those who are actually suffering.

[xiamiam]

24. i never think about the star either..but a poster once made a comment about not taking me seriously

because i didn't have one. Go figure. I've been donating to DU since 2004. No problem. I come here everyday and get my news. I'll probably stay on board as I'm hooked. BUT..I do not join forums which charge..salon or nyt..and have no intention of doing that in the future. I think it will limit newcomers..which might not be a bad idea for me as I dislike trolls and with election season coming up there will surely be those. I think it will harm du financially since there are plenty of sites to get info now.
I don't think its been well thought out and I think salon is a good model not to use. I'll give a smaller donation than normal to this fund drive and be in for next year..and then who knows..
Many of us are hurting financially so its not a good time but at least we've got a year.

I usually dont log in on my laptop...and there i have to see Herman Cain ads on the front page. What is up with that anyway?

[Ruby the Liberal]

31. Where did you get the idea that DU was moving to a pay to read/post model?

Link to this new information/policy, please. Thanks in advance.

[xiamiam]

41. oops. I got it wrong..well, at least that is a relief..... nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

43. Gaaaaaawd. This is REALLY fucking ridiculous! I haven't donated to DU in YEARS...

on PRINCIPLE because of things I have seen happen here, but no one has EVER said..."You are not worthy of an opinion because you don't have a star." If someone is rude enough to say something like that, why would I care what they think? Honestly. Did you even read Skinner's post? Here...from his OP:


"And as always, those who choose not to purchase a star will still be able to post and participate free of charge."

Download Ad Block Plus FOR FREE..at: http://adblockplus.org/en/

You will see ZERO ADS. ZIP. NADA. ZILCH. NONE.

[hlthe2b]

3. Ironically, the fund drives had a cohesive effect on the DU community...

Even those who could donate only $5 felt some pride in doing so--pride in helping make DU advance. The stars are not the issue, but driving a wedge between those who can and can not afford to donate at a level deemed "sufficient" is.

And, yes, while the fund drives might have been annoying for some, and time consuming for admins, it did have a positive effect on the DU community--something I hope will be considered before a final plan is implemented. Do away with the stars or keep them. Just don't demoralize those struggling economically. THAT, is the very antithesis of progressive stances.

[Ruby the Liberal]

7. Different argument all together.

Keep the hearts and the stickies and Grovelbot at post #32 on each thread - have a blast with it. Those promotions last 10 days and no one goes into drama overload over how many hearts or stickies someone has.

[hlthe2b]

42. yet you would argue against any mechanism to aid...

those who can not afford $60 per year to take part. Really? Yes, it is far more important than the damned stars. Are you among those here who claim to understand the issues behind OWS and the gross inequalities that pervade our society and yet are so clueless why some of us are arguing against making DU such a "have versus have not" community?

Honestly, Ruby ... Give it some thought. I donate regularly. Not always a great deal, but I donate. If I have extra money, I love being able to donate for those who can not. There is nothing I want to see less than to have this place become a "one percenter" community. Those suffering economic set backs have enough embarrassment, sadness, depression in their lives without being made to feel useless and no longer part of the DU community--even if all they can afford is the minimum donation.

[Ruby the Liberal]

49. This is the drama I am talking about. "one percenter community" ??

You diminish the entire argument by claiming everything (including a $42 donation) is 1% territory.

[hlthe2b]

50. You fail your own argument by your determined need to diminish

and deride those who argue on behalf of those facing economic hardships. Your lack of compassion is beneath a progressive. You should change your name. You certainly do not speak like a liberal/progressive, but one so callous that "has theirs". As fumesucker has already pointed out, there is an ongoing thread of those making fun of DUers who will not be able to afford the $42. Perhaps you should rush over and join in. :eyes:

[Ruby the Liberal]

52. I should?

I may be unemployed, but even so, I simply don't have enough hours in the day to get into a purity pissing contest with you.

The reality is that websites cost money.

In some future utopian land, they will all be free, everyone will make the same exact amount of money as everyone else, and everyone's monthly expenditures will be the same. No one will have school loans, medical needs or car repair. Until then, we do what we can with what we have.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CTyankee]

4. sorry to be lame but what is the "per post billboard"?

Oh, and I agree. Let's just not have stars...

[Ruby the Liberal]

5. From what I have read in the last few hours

without the Mark of DU on your post, your voice isn't being heard and your comments are worthless (or something). I was going to liken it to Heather Prynne, but went with the billboard analogy in relation to how oversized this argument appears to me.

I am shocked and saddened that anyone would feel their opinion is less valuable based on a stupid .gif adorning their post.

[MineralMan]

9. I agree with you. I never look to see if a poster is a donor.

It's irrelevant. Only the words that are posted are relevant.

[Wait Wut]

27. Ditto

I ended up being in a rough situation last drive. The day before I was ready to donate, all hell sorta broke loose. Someone gave me a star. I was honestly touched by the generosity.

So, when I see a "non"star poster, I just assume they're either in the same spot I was in or worse. Or...a troll...but, they're easy enough to spot. It's the obvious trolls WITH stars that freak me out. Anyway, why would I take someone less seriously because they're broke?

[EFerrari]

14. What happens in practice is that people do look for a star

and a post count and a profile if a post seems disruptive because of trolls.

And when you think about it, since we don't have many visual cues on the intertubes, we've probably all been wrong at least once about a poster being a troll or not.

So, it is a set up for people who don't have donor stars to be read differently at least on occasion.

[Ruby the Liberal]

18. Okay, so put it in the profile.

Member since: (date)
Post count: (Number)
Activist Corps: Yes
Donor: Yes

Just get it off the posts if it is going to cause this much unnecessary heartburn.

[EFerrari]

22. It may be that part of this doesn't have very much to do with DU.

My donations have been slight since I lost my full time job and that, all by itself and without respect to the proposed changes, feels bad.

[Ruby the Liberal]

29. I get that.

I am unemployed right now as well. But we are democrats, liberals and progressives. We care what people have to say, not about their donations. That is an operational issue (between them and Skinner) not a functional (public participation) one, IMO.

[EFerrari]

37. It is a functional one while stars are still displayed

and while non-donors are locked out of groups. People are not upset over nothing.

[Ruby the Liberal]

39. Why I suggested a solution to the former and Skinner has already addressed the latter.

DU is the only website I donate to, but I read DOZENS - as do we all. Some are daily haunts, some once in a while. Thanks to the doners elsewhere, I have access to that content. I have never once felt 'lesser' anywhere because of it. I read, I post, I move along.

[EFerrari]

56. Yes, both you and Skinner have addressed those two issues

and yet they remain functional ones for now.

[CTyankee]

15. Oh, I see what you mean (duh...)

Well, that WOULD be egalitarian.

I certainly would not be offended if I didn't get a star for my donation. I never really thought that the star conferred special status on people here, because how would anyone know if you gave $5 or $500? And certainly my posts rose or fell not by my donor status but, I was hoping, on the quality of my thoughts. I guess I was being naive.

[Ruby the Liberal]

20. I didn't either. Until now.

I join you in your naivete.

Identify problem, resolve/remove obstacles causing problem, move onto next problem.

[hlthe2b]

26. Could you really be more clueless than to think it is only about the stars?

REALLY?

Do you really think that those on a very diminished economic platform should have no ability to contribute financially--no ability to feel like they have some "pride in ownership" in terms of the very successful forum they helped to build? REALLY? Can you not understand that? Are you one who--like the entire RW-- deigns to tell those who are not among the very wealthy or who are having a short term set-back how they should use their diminished funds?

Sickening, truly sickening attitude...

[Ruby the Liberal]

34. Be careful jumping to conclusions. Don't want you to break an ankle.

[sharp_stick]

10. I have to agree

I'm quite surprised to see the responses to this. I haven't had a star in about the last year and haven't noticed the fact that I must be a pariah of sorts to some.

Dumping the entire star concept may be a way to go.

[aquart]

13. You don't mind not having a star. I will.

And I am sorry you don't understand why.

[CTyankee]

17. But since we don't know how much anybody donates, how much of a status symbol can it be?

I do not think any less of a DUer if they don't have a star. I realize that some people cannot give money because they don't have it to give. That does not diminish their integrity or their worthiness as a DUer. At least not to me and I am surprised to hear that people feel that way...

[aquart]

35. That's nice. I see you've donated.

And your perspective seems solely the viewpoint of someone who will comfortably continue to have a star.

But thanks.

[CTyankee]

38. I'm sorry. I'm not understanding what you are saying...

why "solely"? I mean, if there were no stars, how would you know whether I gave or didn't give?:shrug:

On second thought let me clarify here. I oppose any stars at all. All are equal. Nobody special because of donating or not.

[sharp_stick]

21. That wasn't really my point

I haven't had a star for awhile. Somebody mentioned the thought that people were "checking" the donor status of posts/replies and basing their views of the poster on what they saw.

I've never really noticed a difference in how posts/replies were viewed from star to no-star myself but it did get me thinking about it. It could be that I don't post that often and so don't generate that kind of response or maybe it was an incorrect hypothesis to begin with.

[ecstatic]

36. It seems the the people outraged about this are the ones who judge others

for not having a star. It's kind of ironic when you think about it. I don't plan to renew my membership, but I'm not outraged. I think the whole "have" have not debate is childish.

[TBF]

12. Skinner, tear down those stars!

Instead of making folks feel like 2nd or 3rd class citizens, just take them down. Doesn't matter to me at all. Number of posts probably shows how devoted folks are to DU more than any star ever would, and we all know the trolls can likely afford to pay much more than some of our good DUers.

[dkf]

16. Back in the day when I was still a newbie someone made a crack about me posting with no star

That's how I learned if you donated you would get a star. I hadn't noticed til then.

[CTyankee]

23. Well, that is plain rude. I'm sorry to hear that!

[boston bean]

28. happens all the time.

[CTyankee]

32. It's rude and it's mean.

By all means, let's get rid of the stars...one less thing to make people get downright nasty over...

[Codeine]

19. First World Problems. nt

[nenagh]

25. I really haven't followed this discussion... but love DU...

and I'd like to think that after DU3 we could donate a 'star' or whatever.. anonymously... for maybe 20.00 or 30.00 to someone who doesn't have one.

I know what it is like to be very, very short of $$$.. mouths to feed etc.. and it is very, very difficult.

My children are grown up now.. so it is nice to contribute quietly.. to someone else who enjoys DU as much as I do..

Just an idea :)

[thelordofhell]

30. The Sneeches Underground

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3yJomUhs0g

[beac]

33. I know I already said this to you in another OP, but I hope you'll indulge the repeat

since you made a specific OP for this very worthy idea. OK, here's may take (again):


In the past, a star indicated "I donated." Now that there will be no more fund drives, the stars should expire with them. Can't see that a "I pay not to see ads and get special features" mark is in any way needed.

As for those who would like to give an ad-free year or month to another member, why not a slush fund that people could apply to anonymously and/or a forum or thread where those who were comfortable could ask for help directly?

We have all been members from the beginning. Some of us have been donors and received a star for it-- it said "I believe in DU and I am helping it to grow."

Now DU is "grown", some will be paying for a better experience and that's their choice, but not something everyone else needs to know about.




edited for typo

[Ruby the Liberal]

40. Thank you.

[hlthe2b]

44. Again, I don't think it is the stars at issue, but the message that small contributors...

don't matter. Geez... How progressive is THAT?

I am one of the earliest to join DU and during that time have had my own ups and downs. But, I always gave what I could afford because I wanted to feel like I was part of building that effort. Sometimes I took pride in being able to give more that would add to another less advantaged DUer's contribution and give yet full privileges that come with membership. Now, the message is that unless I or any other DUer contributes a minimum of $42 then their more meager offer of help is not appreciated. THAT is what I find abhorrent.

[beac]

48. I'm not happy about that aspect either.

I suspect that the level was chosen precisely to drive more people into the "unpaid" category, allowing the Admins to charge more for ads b/c more members will be looking at them on DU3.

If that's what they need to do, fine. But the "gee, we are doing so well that we don't need fund drives and charging a LOT more for no ads is a good thing!" way it was presented really fell flat for me (and a lot of others, so it seems.)

I think that getting rid of the stars will at least eliminate some of the hurt feelings and avoid them becoming a symbol that a DUer is in a certain financial position. Before, you never knew what people had donated-- now a star would say "I spend $42-60 a year on DU." And that expenditure is no longer a "donation" so why not let the accompanying star expire too?

[jwirr]

45. Agreed. I will be donating because I love this site and what it allows

me to learn. No matter what that is what is important to me.

[valerief]

46. You don't have to be a star, baby, to be in my show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HyLZWlJ1e8

[msongs]

47. people are getting something for nothing and still bitch and complain nt

[snot]

51. +1.

Ok, I'm editing to say, please know that I genuinely empathize with those who can't afford to donate. Yes, I have been there; I still wash and re-use the plastic bags food comes in, so I don't have to buy them.

But I really don't believe most donating DU'er's look down on others who are in that situation. And the ones that do? – f--- 'em.

I suspect some of the upset is misdirected, and contributed to by people reading the new policy too hastily.

[WolverineDG]

53. I agree

If no one has a star next to their name, there's no way to tell if they're a donor or not. The poster & the admins will be the only ones to know if they paid for the privilege of getting access to "special features & functions."

dg

[Spirochete]

55. I usually have a star

But too broke to afford one right now. Almost donated yesterday, but decided to hold off until I buy my medication, to see if I'm actually going to have $5-10 I can spare. If not, next month for sure.