What if OWSers decide to vote Dem?

[gulliver]

OWSers know by now that Republicans are far from being their friends. I doubt the Koch brothers and American Crossroads, for example, are big OWS supporters. Fox News? Not so much. Republican leaders get enthusiastic applause from their supporters when they openly call OWSers "lazy socialists who need to get jobs." When an OWSer gets pepper-sprayed or worse, most Republicans probably rejoice. Republicans clearly consider OWS an enemy.

I'm betting a lot of OWSers return the feeling. I don't think they miss the signs. Republicans want everything OWSers hate and want to block everything they love. Therefore, OWSers would be within their rights to strike back at Republicans using the voting booth.

A lot of OWSers are young and independent, but from what I see in the media, they are also informed and intelligent. If voting Dem in their district is the sure way to replace a hard-core Republican gay rights foe (and tax firewall for the wealthy) with a Pell Grant-championing Dem, I have no doubt OWSers will see the value proposition clearly.

No one knows how much longer OWS will continue or where it will go. They have scored a lot of victories, but winter is coming. Regardless, I think Republicans are starting to feel the heat, and Democrats are starting to feel safer to be more liberal. OWS gets some credit for that, but so do the Dems. For example, Elizabeth Warren's message, instead of disappearing, has gotten much, much stronger thanks to the Dem power achieved by voters at voting booths in 2006 and especially 2008.

If the OWSers throw in solidly with the Dems, we would see more of that.

[eridani]

1. If they did, I'd hope to see a lot more primary challenges n/t

[MADem]

6. It's too late to primary anyone for 12. That process starts two years out.

The ballots are already being printed.

It takes planning, and it takes years sometimes to grow a decent candidate. It's why more people need to get involved in their (often crappy) local governments. That's where it starts.

Remember, the batshit crazy school comitteewoman and mayor of a podunk Alaska town ran for VP last time around.

All politics is LOCAL.

[eridani]

62. Hell, if we'd really been set on a populist presidential candidate for 2008 or 2012--

--we'd have started working on that in 1976.

[TheWraith]

32. Why?

Unless you subscribe to the belief that the fault lies somehow with the Democrats who worked to pass bills instead of with the Republicans who obstructed everything they humanly could, then primary challenges are simply a good way to completely waste time, energy, and opportunity.

I am so tired of this "DINOs" and "primary challenge" crap. It's nothing by giving a free pass to the people actually responsible for preventing anything from happening.

[eridani]

63. Democrats who side with Republicans need to be primaried n/t

[Skidmore]

2. huh?

[Edweird]

3. Everybody's pissed off because 2006 & 2008 brought no hope and change for the worse.

If the Dems (Obama in particular) had delivered there would be no OWS.

[Poll_Blind]

4. ^ This

PB

[Zorra]

10. That's what many others here have been saying also. nt

[libinnyandia]

13. Part of th problem is our system is so dysfunctional. The 20

smallest states, many of them conservative western states hav 40 senators. California, with sam e population, has 2. The 26 smallest states, with less than 60 million population, less than 20% of the population, ahve a majority in the Senate. It takes extaordinary circumstances to have enough progressive Senators to make real change.

[Edweird]

14. So was Obama's 'hope and change' out-of his-league ingnorance or a cynical lie?

[phleshdef]

16. Have you ever had a goal that other people thwarted you on?

I don't think Obama ever intended to try to create a liberal paradise but he has most certainly supported and/or proposed a lot of great stuff that the rest of government has decided can not be allowed to pass. I believe he did understimate the hatred Republicans have for him. I believe he thought that they would do what Democrats did with Reagan and what Republicans did with Clinton (pre-impeachment), and at some point all would come together for something halfway decent. Thats not "out of league ignorance". Thats just people being bigger assholes that you thought they'd be based off of whats happened in the past. The only people in that scenario that have done anything wrong are the ones acting like assholes in the first place, not the people they are acting like assholes to.

[Edweird]

21. So during his time in Congress.... ?

[defendandprotect]

23. System is "dysfunctional" because corporations own both parties ....

and their candidates -- in the main!

Parties are colluding together for the benefit of a RW corporate agenda -- !!


"Congress is controlled by the oil and coal industries" -- Al Gore/Rolling Stoen-June


which should also make clear to you that the biggest secret they are keepiing is about

Global Warming --


Oil industry has been active for 50 years and more -- spent tens of billions of $$ --

trying to hide that reality so they could continue to exploit our natural resources for

their personal profit --!!

We need to NATIONALIZE our natural resources -- but we need a Congress truly representative

of the public in order to do that.


And that's what OWS is all about -- BOTH parties are dead now.

[TBMASE]

35. yeah, that's because it's in the constitution

[Synicus Maximus]

49. The last I heard we had a majority in the Senate. Did I miss something.

[Tx4obama]

56. The problem is ....

we dems do not have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate.
The GOP has been blocking just about everything the Democrats have been trying to do, so with all the GOP obstruction it takes 60 'yes' votes to invoke cloture on most bills and on administration/judicial confirmations.

Having over 50 democratic senators in the senate isn't enough, we need to have at the least 60.

[Edweird]

58. So the R's had 60+ in the Senate prior to 2006?

[libinnyandia]

61. No but the Democrats are much less likely to obstruct

the process. I don't rememember any Democratic Senate leader saying that their main objective was to make anyone a 1 term president.

[gulliver]

17. Elizabeth Warren's rise by itself is a lot.

But there have been a lot of wins, and voting Dem in 2006 and 2008 accounts for most of them. It's not whether the team wins every game but whether it is doing better. And it definitely is doing better than in the 2000's. No new wars. Student loans taken away from the banks. A new Consumer Protection Bureau. Much better health care coverage for millions of people. We need to be persistent to extend our wins, and that means doing more of what got us what we have won.

There would be no OWS if the Dems and Obama had delivered "more." I agree with you on that. But they delivered a lot, and Republicans not only did not deliver, but took away when they were in power. Most of the things we wanted from Obama and the Dems would have been delivered if Republicans had no power.

[Edweird]

24. So just go show OWS your little list of 'wins' and I'm sure it'll all go away.

Or maybe your claims of 'much better health coverage' is merely spin on FAR RW policy. Maybe people are sick of RW policy - which is why 2006 and 2008 happened the way they did and are now enraged at 'the lesser of two evils' garbage.

[JoePhilly]

52. What % of OWS voted in those elections??

Your claim assumes they all voted for Dems ... and are now angry.

Given the fact that most Americans don't vote ... I would bet that most in OWS also did not vote.

If they want to change things, they will need to vote and create majorities that are strong enough to carry their interests forward.

[Edweird]

57. There's actually a poll of them out there. Your 'assumptions' plus $2

will get you a ride on the NY subway.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

60. What Edweird said.

[xchrom]

5. I think many are or are on the road to becoming

Political atheists. That's a good thing.

Dems have proven themselves to be a part of the problem.

Establishment dems should not be returned to office any more than repukes.

[theophilus]

7. I believe you are right. I wonder what this means for the future of our

current system? What do you think?

[xchrom]

15. I think we live in post democracy America.

Our institutions have failed time and again.

The poverty rates are increasing.

I don't know what comes next - but it's a worry.

[defendandprotect]

26. No -- BOTH parties are finished -- but people go on -- they are the democrats ... !!!

And the concept of democracy never dies --

[firehorse]

8. Being co-opted and absorbed into any party would kill the OWS.

I think we learned in this last election cycle that Obama the democrat carried on with Bush's policies in more ways than one.

I don't think those of the OWS want more of the same. They lost their faith in big Gov -- doesn't matter the party.

[defendandprotect]

28. Message of OWS is that BOTH parties are finished -- RW is finsihed --

RW was always a false movement built on lies -- deception -- RW political violence --

assassinations and stolen elections -- as always, throughout history!


OWS signals no more "lesser evil" voting which only movies the party and Congress

further to the right --


This is a liberal nation reclaiming that reality and trampling the lies of the RW.

[LWolf]

9. What if they decide to vote for Dems

that stand and fight for "old" Democratic principles, rather than "new" Dems?

What if they don't vote for anyone, of any party, that represents the 1%?

[defendandprotect]

29. Corporate take over of both parties is pretty much complete ... OWS knows that -- !!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

11. As long as it's for the right Dems

No DINOs or blue dogs.

[defendandprotect]

30. Democrats are now a RW party ... attacking Social Security and Medicare just as willingly ...

as GOP used to do -- !!

Only OWS has created a slight "pause" in that attack -- !!

[libinnyandia]

37. The GOP hates Social Security and Medicare with every fiber of

their being. Some Democrats think they can find some common ground with the GOP by making some concessions and tweaking the system, but the GOP won't be satisfied and will use any concessions to claim that its the Democratic Party that is trying to kill the senior citizens and a loy of them will believe them. Death panels, death panels, death panels!

[defendandprotect]

39. Unfortunately, we have Obma's own words and actions which makes what he is doing quite clear -- !!

Maybe Obama's Wall Street agenda isn't clear to you yet?

But there is no denying his Wall Street team or his attacks on public education

and unions, as well.

Sadly, Obama also made back room deals with Big Pharma and the private H/C industry

to "preserve the private H/C industry" as "crowed" about by Koch Bros./DLC Rahm Emmanuel.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

64. Link?

I'm getting sick and tired of baseless accusations.

[UTUSN]

12. Why *wouldn't* they?!1 But then, why does each generation have to learn history the hard way?!1 n/t

[lbrtbell]

18. Who the hell is unreccing this?

OWS can galvanize voters, so that we can elect truly progressive Dem candidates. Protesting at the polls is just as necessary as protesting in the streets.

[defendandprotect]

31. Obama is Wall Street -- OWS is anti-Wall Street .... how can you fail to understand that?

[Admiral Loinpresser]

45. Glenn Greenwald unrecced it.

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/19/heres_what_attempted_co_option_of_ows_looks_like/singleton/

[dionysus]

47. all the non-dems here are unreccing it.. they want the dems to fail just as much as the GOP does,

just for a different reason

[defendandprotect]

19. Koch Bros. funded the DLC control over Dem Party -- !!

That control has now been passed on to Third Way --

"ignore the base of the party" -- "populism is extremism" -- !!

[defendandprotect]

20. Unlikely ... OWS is about end of BOTH parties -- and moving to the LEFT ... to the LEFT ... !!

We need a challenger to Obama for 2012 !!

[deutsey]

22. +1

[Bluenorthwest]

25. I am so sick of the co-opting of GLBT rights as done in this OP

I am sick of hearing that the GOP is a foe of 'gay rights' when I do not see Democrats standing up for what I call human rights and equal protection under the law, what I do hear is a President raving that his God is in the mix, and demanding that only straights like Newt are 'Sanctified' so gay people should not have the right to marry. And I do not hear many voters telling him to stick that shit where the sun don't shine. So the GOP is a foe, but so are all who oppose equal human rights for all humans.
Do not try to make us fodder until you stand with us and fight.

[gulliver]

34. Sorry. I completely picked it out of a hat.

I could have chosen global warming denial, or evolution denial, or drug law zealotry, or immigrant bashing, or war starting, or etc. But then I probably would have had people who care about those things thinking I was co-opting their issue(s). The point is that clearly Republicanism is a bitter enemy of all of most good causes.

[defendandprotect]

42. Sadly, what we have to wake up to is corporate control of BOTH parties ... and that's also includes

MIC -- intelligence -- corporations are certainly involved there, as well.


We had the Democrats keep the wars going long after '06 election --

Pelosi -- on video -- morning after '06: "Democrats were elected to end the war" --


Obama election '08 -- and we're still making agreements to keep military bases going

there until 2024!

[gulliver]

46. That's just a Republican trope that their "sales force" uses.

Don't buy it. It is pure Republican dishonesty at work to say that parties are equivalent. It is a lie that only benefits Republicans and their parent corporations.

If there were 50 fewer Republicans in the house and 10 fewer in the Senate, we would have another, better New Deal. If there there were 10 more Republicans in the Senate and a Republican in the White House, we would be seeing new wars, new tax cuts, and people kicked back out of the healthcare system.

[defendandprotect]

50. Oh, really, Obama has sure made clear differences are FADING ... if any left -- !!

Wasn't that Obama trampling single payer heatlth -- taking single payer "off the table"

and making back room deals with Big Pharma and private h/c industry?

Wasn't that Obama putting Social Security and Medicare "on the table" -- ???

And I guess MIC are distressed at the new deal made with Afghanistan to keep us there to

2024!!

ROFL


And if pigs could fly --

Let's begin by putting a real democrat in the White House -- we need a challenger to

Obama for 2012!!

[Jack Rabbit]

27. Most OWSers will vote for Democrats

Almost none will vote Republican.

Very few will give money to any campaign and very few will lift a finger for the re-election of President Obama.

I doubt that OWS as an organization will endorse any candidate for office, nor should they. That is not what OWS is about.

[defendandprotect]

33. Agree, this is about OWS reclaiming move to LEFT ... then why would they vote for Dems/Obama???

This is a Wall Street administration -- OWS is anti-Wall Street -- !!

They also understand that both parties are colluding together on a RW corporate

agenda.

[Jack Rabbit]

48. Why would they vote for Obama?

Obama's re-election strategy is brilliant. He's better than the other guy. Not that he's all that great, but he's better than any of the nine ninnies.

[defendandprotect]

51. Ah ... the "lesser evil" ... except that doing that over the last 30/40 yeas ...

has only moved the party and the Congress further to the RIGHT !!

Is that what you want more of?

Or is it time to take a stand and demand a candidate we can actually

feel some real trust in? Someone like Bernie Sandes --

or Alan Grayson --

or the ton of other democrats inolved with OWS?

[Jack Rabbit]

53. But, you gotta hand it to Obama . . .

. . . he's being the lesser of two evils to a fine art.

[defendandprotect]

54. I think pretty much everyone knows what Obama is -- and it isn't a pretty picture -- !!

Certainly Obama is Wall Street as evidenced by his hand picked team --

and his actions/decisions.

At the least!

[Blue_In_AK]

36. If Democrats would start acting like real Democrats, maybe.

As has been pointed out, the major demands of Occupy Wall Street match up pretty well with the Democratic Party platform put together in 2008. Platforms are one thing, real actions are another, and I haven't seen too much from the Democrats to cheer about. There are plenty of them I wouldn't mind seeing go away.

But until we get some real campaign finance reform, only the wealthy will be able to run and we'll continue to be ruled by the 1%.

[defendandprotect]

43. Obama didn't pick a Wall Street Team or Koch Bros. DLC/Rahm Emmanuel

because he supports a traditional Democratic Party platform --

Democrats haven't been taking Koch Bros. or Pfizer or Chevron $$ and other corporate

money because they support the Demcoratic Platform!

Democrats over decades have been silent on too many issues --

Corporate money buys a lot of silence -- !!

[Arkana]

38. Then that's their decision.

But OWS is drawing its success from being apolitical. Instead of being an arm of the Democrats they're a genuine angry populist uprising--which explains their popularity.

And I guarantee you that if Democrats start openly and loudly declaring their support, the media meme will become "THE DEMOCRATS STARTED THIS! LOOK AT THESE STUPID HIPPIES MAKING A MESS ALL OVER AMERICA! GET A JOB YOU SMELLY PEACENIKS!". Bolstered by the media narrative, Republicans will go on the offensive and OWS will become less popular than dry rot.

[treestar]

40. What are their numbers?

To be a voting bloc, you need numbers of significance.

[SidDithers]

41. OWSers have decided that the existing political system is corrupt..

therefore, none of them will be voting.

Sid

[Bonobo]

55. Hopefully they will be voting for a constitutional convention. nt

[ohheckyeah]

44. Yep...

they should vote for every Democrat who has stood up and condemned the violence used against the protesters.

[Skittles]

59. they probably would if they could find real Democrats