Is pepper spray torture?

[tblue]

Hard to argue that it's not. This police academy trainee experienced pepper spray as part of his education.

/snip

So, I went and faced the guy with the spray, closed my eyes (we were able to close our eyes, however it does NOT help) and got sprayed in the face. Then I ran to the first person with the kick pad and had to open my eyes and as soon as my eyes opened--OH. MY. GOSH.---Worst pain EVER, literally. It was unbelievable. Searing and burning, especially in the left eye. So I ran over to where they'd set up some buckets with water and some hoses and tried to wash my eyes out. Someone squirted some baby soap in my hand and I rubbed it on my eyes and tried to rinse it off...and I was having trouble breathing and the pain was just UNBELIEVABLE. Then someone led me around in the shade while I tried to blink and get my eyes open, because apparently blinking as much as possible and letting the wind hit my face. It was hard to breathe for a while, I was just taking gulping breaths.

My face felt like it was ON FIRE. My eyes were searing with pain and my face felt like someone threw boiling water on it! I walked around and fanned myself with a towel and the pain did slowly subside...and those of us who had gone earlier in the afternoon were able to help out those who drew the higher numbers and went last. I couldn't drive home at the end of the day, though...my eyes were still stinging a little bit, and everything was so bright outside...you know how when you get your eyes dilated, you're really sensitive to the sun? It was like that. I had my glasses on with sunglasses on top of them, but could barely open my eyes. So, I got someone to drive me home and just left my car there.

When I got home I leaned over the tub and washed my face and neck with baby soap a couple of times...when the water ran down my arms, they started burning, too. Now as I sit here at the computer my left eye will sting and start watering about every 20 minutes or so...and my left eye especially is really really red...but other than that, and being a little stuffy, I feel okay. Overall....the experience was horrible! Never want to go through that again! But now we all know what the spray is like, and we know how we react to it if we ever get sprayed on accident, or if we have to use it on someone (which happens quite a bit in the jail for people who get out of control).
/snip

http://www.aaa-safetyfirst.com/pepper-spray-reaction.htm

Tell me, why are police torturing peaceful OWS protesters???!

[Hoopla Phil]

1. Most any weapon can be used TO torture.

In use as a weapon where a weapon is called for it is a good alternative to a billy club or firearm. In use as a tool for compliance??? it is torture.

[firehorse]

2. Its abuse of power and it really sucks but its not torture.

I once did a dumbass move and accidentally pepper sprayed myself in the face, and I've been tear gassed by police. But honestly, I've had worse gyno procedures that hurt worse.

[tblue]

23. Oh please tell me the name of your gyno so I DON'T EVER GO THERE!!!

LOL! This is not sposed to be funny. Dang you! LOLOLOL!

[TBMASE]

3. no

while it might be unpleasant, it's certainly not torture

[DesertRat]

7. Have you experienced it?

Especially at point-blank range?

[NYC_SKP]

8. It's bad enough, it's abuse, it's assault, but it's not torture.

I would argue that If you tied people up and did it, that would be torture.

I'm a big advocate for not letting words lose their specificity, it weakens them and in turn weakens the ideas.

It's not torture, but it's really fucked up.

Wikipedia provides a more broad definition than I care to apply (so there's certainly room for argument):

"...Torture is the act of inflicting severe pain (whether physical or psychological) as a means of punishment, revenge, forcing information or a confession, or simply as an act of cruelty. Throughout history, torture has often been used as a method of political re-education, interrogation, punishment, and coercion. In addition to state-sponsored torture, individuals or groups may be motivated to inflict torture on others for similar reasons to those of a state; however, the motive for torture can also be for the sadistic gratification of the torturer."..."

:shrug:

[DesertRat]

10. The definition of torture

according to my Merriam Webster dictionary:
1. a : anguish of body or mind, agony
b : something that causes agony or pain

2. the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure

I don't believe that being tied up is a requirement.

[TBMASE]

15. US Law defines it differently

It's not torture and it's certainly less painful than being beaten with a baton

[saras]

13. By your quoted definition, pepper spraying someone who is not attacking you physically IS torture

"Torture is the act of inflicting severe pain (whether physical or psychological)"
Yes to both. Physically, people's pain sensitivities vary widely, and the people who claim something isn't painful that others find so is simply insensitive, not tougher or more accurate.

Psychologically this sends the message that any innocent person who even investigates a public education activity may get pepper-sprayed for NO REASON, with NO CONSEQUENCE to the aggressor.

"as a means of punishment, revenge"
yes to both - no other reasons for using it on most OWS cases

"forcing information or a confession"
nope, not here

"or simply as an act of cruelty."
Yes, clearly, in more than one instance.

"Throughout history, torture has often been used as a method of political re-education"
Yes.

"interrogation"
No

"punishment"
Yes

"and coercion."
Yes.

"In addition to state-sponsored torture, "
Yes

"individuals or groups may be motivated to inflict torture on others for similar reasons to those of a state;"
Yes

"however, the motive for torture can also be for the sadistic gratification of the torturer."
Yes, also true.

[TBMASE]

16. It was avoidable

and I assure it, it's a lot more pleasant than a baton strike

[Cid_B]

20. That was my thought..

Can one choose to be "tortured?"

Police : Please move or we are going to spray you
Protester: No

Police : Really sir, please move or we are going to spray you
Protester: No

Police: *sprays*
Protester : I can't believe they sprayed me!

If you held someone down and shot it direct in the eyeball, a la Kill Bill, then that would qualify.

[tblue]

22. Remember Brian Wilson, whose legs got cut off by a train

as he was protesting the shipment of weapons to Nicaragua? He asked for it? Really?

[Cid_B]

24. *goes to the google*

Apparently... Yup.. Dude stood in front of a moving train... That is by definition "asking for it."

Doesn't take anything from his cause or his protest or whatever but it is a natural consequence of standing in front of a large moving metal object. You might lose a limb or two and he made that choice.

[TBMASE]

14. yeah I've experienced it, got sprayed to see what it was like

it's unpleasant but it's not torture.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

4. I think it's assault and that's plenty bad enough.

[tblue]

21. Yup. Excessive and unnecessary.

I really wasn't looking for a legal definition of torture. I was just wondering if inflicting intense physical pain on defenseless people is generally considered way out-of-bounds. I think you sum it up pretty nicely: Assault is bad enough. Those cops must pay for that.

[Sirveri]

5. I've been pepper sprayed before for training purposes. It was irritating, but not that bad.

YMMV. In the current situation it's excessive force however.

[DesertRat]

6. It's banned in warfare by the Geneva Convention

So I would say YES.
http://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_rul_rule75

[tblue]

17. That does it for me then.

It is.

[Gregorian]

9. I don't like calliing it torture. That gives conservatives a handle to argue with.

We've got to do this from a different angle. We all know what happened in the previous torture debate. Is waterboarding torture? Bla bla bla. No, but we hung Japanese for doing it.

We're headed for a semantic revolving door with the clown conservatives. We cannot afford to do this. Whatever angle we use must be foolproof. Something that they simply hang there heads and say "OH".

I know this is completely idiotic, but it's the only way we're going to make forward movement.

[tblue]

18. Who cares what conservatives say? Why do they get to make the rules?

We have to stop letting their possible reaction dictate what we say. I am not afraid of anything they say. Being pepper sprayed at close range was clearly torture to the people who got shot in the face with it. Yes it was.

[Gregorian]

27. It matters because the media is conservative.

Teabaggers got coverage as if they were patriots. OWS gets coverage like they're anti-American.

They do make the rules, as much as it sucks.

[tblue]

29. That's why Dems are considered weak.

We cave before we put up a fight. I don't mean you personally. Talking anout the "Please don't hurt me" party.

[Gregorian]

30. Absolutely. I see the point.

Feingold, Kucinich, Bernie Sanders, De Fazio, and a few others. But that's about it.

I still don't think calling it torture is appropriate. I am totally open to being wrong about that. But one thing is for certain, it's completely against what this country stands for. And the lack of support for that standard of democracy, from our representatives, is evil.

[Historic NY]

11. In Austin Police Dept its shall not be used as follows.........

C. Officers will not use chemical agents on subjects exhibiting only verbal and/or passive resistance to arrest or authority

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/police/gen_orders_b.htm

[undeterred]

12. Lets be clear that there are different grades of pepper spray.

I carry pepper spray to protect myself and my dog from from attacks by aggressive people and dogs. If I sprayed it at a person or dog who attacked me or my dog I would not consider that to be torture. It does rinse off. It is not police grade pepper spray.

[tblue]

19. Police-grade pepper spray has got people coughing up blood.

Sounds like torture to me. The stuff you carry probably doesn't have that effect.

[undeterred]

25. No, and I think when I posted earlier I wasn't thinking about the difference.

The stuff I have would be unpleasant and would make somebody stop what they were doing, but it wouldn't send you to the hospital and it wouldn't be torture. I don't think a civilian could buy the concentration the police are using.

[dionysus]

26. not quite torture, but falls under police brutality. it's bad enough but to compare it to pulling

out peoples fingernails and shit is a tad of hyperbole.

[lovuian]

28. its torture

and it causes breathing problems

[Lance_Boyle]

31. Pepper spray is a weapon. It can be used to torture, but in and of itself

it is not "torture." Pumping it through a mask attached to a victim's face would be torture. Spraying a would-be assailant with it is not. Spraying nonobedient demonstrators with it is somewhere in between those two extremes.

[Aerows]

32. It was excessive use of force, imho

But not torture.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Not to those administering it. To those being administered to...yes.

[Capitalocracy]

34. Pepper spraying peaceful protesters is corporal punishment with no due process.

And torture.

Used as self-defense, it is a less-lethal weapon.

Same with Tasers... using electricity to torture subdued prisoners is a time-honored tradition in our client state dictatorships, and there are cases of Tasers being used on subdued prisoners in the U.S. as a form of corporal punishment and interrogation by torture.