Occupy is dead; long live the 99% movement!

[Bragi]

Reaction to the forceful busting up of the Occupy camps underscores the problem that can occur when a popular political movement (e.g., The 99% Movement) is mistakenly "branded" around an initial, but ultimately unsustainable, tactic (e.g., the Occupy tactic).

When the tactic itself is defeated, it becomes very easy for opponents to then heap ridicule on the tactic and those who support it, and to characterize the defeat of the tactic as a defeat of the movement itself.

This can itself cause an overall loss of popular support for the movement itself, and fuel despair among those who have been most active in supporting it.

I think that's where we are now at.

To which I think the best response is to acknowledge that the Occupy tactic has run its course, but to also acknowledge that the 99% movement will live on, and its tactics will evolve.

"Occupy is dead, long live the 99% Movement!"

- B

[HopeHoops]

1. I had a 99% movement this morning.

:hurts:

:hide:

[Duer 157099]

72. Damn me for laughing

:rofl:

[inademv]

2. I wasn't aware that the 99% movement was political

Since it was protesting the crimes by financial institutions and the illegal actions of corporate corruption and not directly addressing/endorsing politicians or policy proposals. Kinda fun to see how propaganda works.

[caledesi]

3. Link please? n/t

[dixiegrrrrl]

4. The people who have put their asses on the line in numerous cities AND countries

and took the beatings,
the tear gas
the pepper spray
the arrests
the wet cold days and nights

THEY can decide if their Occupy has run its course.

[Magoo48]

17. Perzactly...I support whatever we decide to do.

Out here in Cali, hundreds of occupations still going strong...

[Huey P. Long]

62. Indeed. This poster declares this every day these days. One might say 'spam'.

Pretty desperate to get Occupy to stop being so effective. Divide an effective tactic from the whole. He wishes to defang the movement. A movement of many, that he demands and declares for.

[Danse]

5. Who declared you coroner?

Occupy is not dead but growing. As for reclaiming public space, here is an excellent article on the subject.

"This institution building in a communal space is what many liberation movements have done around the world – from the communal villages of health clinics and schools with the FMLN in El Salvador to the childcare and breakfast programs with the Black Panthers here in Oakland. This organizing of local institutions is not just about providing basic services that the state or private sector is not – it provides a central and safe way around which people can begin to get involved in activism, as well as anchoring the organizing.

The occupation tents do not just have a political history, they are also tied to a more cultural phenomenon – from communal living from the 1970s to Burning Man over the past two decades. The occupy camps, then, are at least attempting to create the inclusive and shared society they envision for the future, rather than waiting for it to happen after some political shift from the individualistic and privatized society that the occupy movement opposes.

Similarly, native political movements often fight against development projects that take over sacred spaces which leave these communities without a common place for sacred rituals. The occupy camps provide a site for ritual, as well. When UC Berkeley students had their tents demolished a second time, they continued to use the same space for even more creative embodiment of tents. First, they brought hundreds of books to Sproul Plaza and turned them over on the ground as symbolic tents. Then, they put tents up on helium balloons and floated them in the air. An occupied public space also invites a broad, inclusive group of people, not just people who feel allegiance to one group’s physical space."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/11/24-1

[Bragi]

9. "Occupy is not dead but growing" Huh?

Really? I see no evidence of that. I see camps that have dwindled down to next to nothing being forcibly dispersed nation-wide by the cops working for the 1%, and right-wing media and pundits characterizing this as a demoralizing defeat of the 99% movement, which it isn't.

People who support the 99% movement now need to see beyond the unsustainable Occupy tactic and move on to adopt tactics that allow for broader participation and are not so vulnerable to disruption by the 1%.

[lunatica]

12. Even as the camps dwindle, the use of the word 'Occupy' has grown even more

Climate change: vulnerable countries consider 'occupying' Durban talks

Former president of Costa Rica calls on countries most affected by climate change to refuse to leave talks until progress is made

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x5069767

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/nov/24/climate-change-occupy-durban-talks?newsfeed=true

[2pooped2pop]

15. I saw 20-30 thousand take the Brooklyn Bridge

with their very own "bat signal" projected onto the Verizon building, on Nov 17th. The time for occupying the parks in tents, may well be left behind, but the Occupation will go on, I suspect. I believe it will slow in winter and come on explosively in the Spring.

We can not let it die, or perhaps we will all die before the greedy will be satisfied. It will soon literally be life or death for the 99%. We can not let this hope die. OWS-99% may be our last hope.

I can assure you that they are adopting new tactics. They are not stagnating. Yes, a little local disarray after the violent breakup of the large camps, but they are still quite active.

Is this the second time you posted this, or am I just coming across it again?

[Bragi]

18. Yes, I posted on this a few days ago

I make no apologies for doing so. I am pushing this message because I think it's important to make a distinction between the 99% movement and its initial Occupy tactic so as to counter the view being promoted by media and others that the evident defeat of the Occupy tactic means the defeat of the movement.

[Bluenorthwest]

29. Is ridiing that dead horse going better today than when you rode

it a day or two ago? In a consensus driven movement, you need to look at the consensus. What sort of feel for the consensus do we get on DU, when you post declarations that the movement is dead? You are soundly rejected. What should that tell you? All manner of input from anyone who wishes to contribute is heard by the GAs, and your opinion is apparently not swaying the consensus. This gives you the choice of joining the consensus or not. You are free to make a shirt of the Canadian flag and go pass out fliers in Ottawa, whatever 'tactic' you deem and dream will make you happy. You can not control the consensus. No one is stopping anyone from employing any personal 'tactic' they wish. Oddly, you don't mention the 'tactics' you favor, not here nor in your other posts in the 'It's Dead Jim' series.

[Bragi]

39. You wrote:

"What sort of feel for the consensus do we get on DU, when you post declarations that the movement is dead?"

I've said the opposite in every posting I've made on this topic: the Occupy tactic is dead, the movement will live on.

So answer me this: why should I continue to take your questions seriously when you apparently don't read my answers?

[Bluenorthwest]

43. I asked you how your theory was going over here.

You did not answer that question. Clearly, I know you have posted this same thing more than once, and I asked if you were getting a better reception this time than last. Are you? I don't think so. I think the theory is rejected here, soundly. Don't you agree that most here think your theory is off the mark?
Don't worry, no one here expects you to discuss or to support your ideas or to exchange ideas, so when you do not answer again, no one will be surprised.

[Bragi]

45. Again, thanks for your input /nt

[2pooped2pop]

42. 'It's Dead Jim'

lol. struck my trekie bone.

[2pooped2pop]

46. Your opinion is valid

as are all opinions. I don't see much support at this time for a separation of the two names here on DU. Each camp makes it's own decisions. It may very well be that as this progresses, some or all camps may lean more on the 99% and away from the Occupy meme. Each camp will make their own decisions. I think that most on DU is happy to allow those with tents on the ground, so to speak, to make their decisions. You might try posting your concerns on the live Occupy channels, including the other 99, and see how they feel about your suggestion.

I'm sorry if after your local camp was raided, that your camp has not yet regrouped. I hope they do. Even if they do not regroup this winter, I believe that there will be mass protest come spring that will reinvigorate all.

I believe that a call to shut down all west coast docks is on the move. I don't know if they can get enough support to accomplish that but then, I doubted the first shut down, and they once again proved my concerns were not a concern after all.

We may not agree with every decision they make, but unless we participate in them, we have no vote on them. I am blindly following them because I know they want peace, a better life for all, and fairness. I will follow them until not a breath remains of them, as I know they are our last best hope.

I personally like the name Occupy, but I will follow the 99%, Mic Check, or OWS. Whatever their general consensus promotes, I will follow. I am the 99%

[Bragi]

48. Thanks. Good thoughts! /nt

[Bluenorthwest]

25. Which camps have you seen? You are in Canada, right?

You say 'I see camps that have dwindled'. Which camps are those? That you have seen?
Any 'broader participation' does not need to wait to employ different tactics, no 'moving on' needed, just go do what you want to do, or organize other Canadians to join you, this odd theory of yours that you in Canada can do nothing until the camps in the US are gone is just daft sauce of the first division. It makes no sense whatsoever.
And again, what camps have you actually seen? Any? Zucotti? None?

[Bragi]

28. Well...

Your characterization of my statements certainly makes no sense, in contrast to my actual statements in the OP, which I think are self-explanatory and quite coherent, thank you.

As for my "agenda" I have stated it directly several times, and here it is again:

I am pushing the distinction between the 99% movement and the Occupy tactic because I don't want to see support the movement demoralized by, and/or desperately clinging on to, a tactic that worked initially, but that is not sustainable.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. You did not answer even one of my questions. Not one.

You evade them. How does that suggest you seek discourse? What 'tactics' are you suggesting? I see none offered. What camps have you been to? And why do you think it is a binary choice? If you have a 'tactic' to employ, do so. No one has asked you not to. Why should tactics others are using end so you can employ your own? Why not just act now?
See if you can answer even one direct question from a list of several.

[Bragi]

33. Oh fer gawd's sake...

What 'tactics' are you suggesting? I see none offered.

I do not offer any specific tactics, that isn't my purpose. My purpose is to express the view that it is bad when a movement clings to a tactics that may have worked at one time, but that is proving to not be sustainable.

What camps have you been to?

I have addressed this previously. I financially supported the camp in my own home town and attended several GAs. It disintegrated into nothing much before being dispersed by the cops.

And why do you think it is a binary choice?

I haven't said it was a binary choice. I've said that I think the Occupy tactic is now failing, and urged people not to invest themselves in this tactic. What matters most is building 99% movement, not clinging to the unsustainable Occupy tactic.

I think the rest of your questions are repetitive and are addressed in my responses above.

[Bluenorthwest]

38. Ah, so you have no new ideas

Down thread you claim we are 'debating tactics' and yet we are not, you are just criticizing one tactic without others offered. That is not discussing new tactics at all.
And your own writing frames the choice as binary. You keep urging people to stop the Occupations and 'move on' to other tactics, which of course you do not name. So all you are saying is 'stop the Occupation'. You do not explain why other tactics are on hold until the occupations end. Nor what the other tactics are.
So you are not saying much other than 'it's dead, Jim'. And the thread does not agree with you, consensus says: Occupy lives. Mic check that, kiddo.

[Bragi]

40. Thanks for your input /nt

[Bluenorthwest]

50. At least I gave you some.

All you are doing is snarking and remarking. Calling for 'new tactics' while naming none. Avoiding questions, no matter how clear and no matter how simple.
Your opinion is understood, it is just not shared by me or many others here. It would be interesting to actually discuss alternative tactics but that is not what this thread is. You have none to discuss. When asked why you think Occupations need to stop before the mystery tactics can be employed, you have no reason to give. No ideas, no reasons.

[Bragi]

53. Already answered you

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2378027&mesg_id=2378572

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Danse]

7. More from same article

"This public space for General Assemblies and direct democracy is also critical. These are when proposals are discussed, debated and voted on among hundreds, sometimes thousands, as to what Occupy Oakland, in this case, should do next. It is mesmerizing to participate in such mass democracy in action in which anyone can speak and make proposals, rather than backroom deals and decision-making by the highest paid lobbyists.

More broadly, though, the message that the “occupy” in the Occupy movement sends to the strong believers in individual property rights, who, by the way, also tend to be the 1% who owns most of the property, is that we are taking back that which we have labored – whether a park in Manhattan, in front of city hall in Oakland or an abandoned car dealership in Chapel Hill, NC. Theorist Antonio Gramsci wrote over 80 years ago that these “wars of position” are a way not only to anchor political organizing but help inspire and mobilize the general public"

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/11/24-1

[tsuki]

8. Y'all wish. nt

[Gman]

10. I think it gives Occupy a good reason to be out of the winter weather

and to be able to come back strong in the spring.

[lunatica]

11. The word 'Occupy' all by itself has entered the world's lexicons

As has the 99%. No small potatoes that.

You're too late to make up new rules for millions of people to follow.

[Bragi]

13. I'm expressing a viewpoint, not making up rules

I think the reason people supported the 99% movement was because it addressed growing social and economic inequality and injustice, not because people suddenly took a fancy to urban camping as a protest tactic.

[lunatica]

16. See, when you insert the words 'I think' then it's easy to see it's only your opinion

But asserting that something is dead and telling people what they should do and think doesn't come across as an opinion. It comes across as a command.

[Bragi]

19. Read the OP

The words "I think" show up more than once in the OP, which I assume makes it clear that I'm expressing an opinion.

[lunatica]

20. I did read it and I think you should have used those words up front

Because your first sentence is a declarative sentence, without any modifier showing that it's anything else. If you want to guide people's thinking about the subject you're tackling it helps if you write your thoughts in ways that don't get misunderstood.

That's what I think, which words I used up front on the subject line.

[Bragi]

21. I disagree, and life goes on /nt

[Bluenorthwest]

26. The other poster is flat out correct on our word choices.

Your opinion is, in my own, incorrect and agenda driven. The fact that your OP declares rather than proposes is not in question. And if you seek discussion, your word choice are poorly made.

[KG]

14. sez you.

[Avalux]

22. You're entitled to your opinion, but I choose to disagree.

Occupy is an idea, a different way of doing things that will not fade even if they camps are gone. There are many, many other ways to occupy and if you look around the innovative ideas and discussions are out there. A metamorphosis, a maturity, must sometimes happen to grow stronger.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. Who died and made you the GA?

I'm going today to donate things to our local Occupation. So it is not dead, and you are posting false, mendacious, pernicious crapola.

[Bragi]

31. Yeah right...

Because we all know that debating tactics is destructive of any movement.

[Bluenorthwest]

35. That snark is off the mark. You are not discussing anything.

Anyone reading this thread can see that when asked a question, you do not respond to it. Debate requires an exchange of ideas, and you are not taking part in that. The rest of us have tried. Anyone can see that. Example: you keep ranting on these 'tactics' you favor, yet you do not name a one of them. How can others discuss the merits of tactics that are unknown, unsaid?
Start with explaining why camps have to end prior to the use of your genius tactics, why you can not simply employ your ideas and let those tactics enter the flow of events. Your theory that others need to 'move on' so that mysterious other tactics can be employed is strange, why must one end for the other to start? Explain.

[Bragi]

37. I responded to you already here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2378027&mes

[Bluenorthwest]

51. And yet here we are in this thread...

That link does not work for me. What did you say there that you can not say here? This is a thread you stared, are you saying it is a redundant thread, a repeat? Why do that?

[Bragi]

54. Here's the link to upthread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2378027&mesg_id=2378572

[Bluenorthwest]

59. Ah. That's where you said your purpose it not to suggest new

tactics. Now you are stating sarcastically that we are 'debating new tactics'. How can anyone debate that which is not stated? I'd love to debate any new tactic you name. But you have none. Yet you claim we are debating them.
There are thousands of my countrymen still Occupying and facing arrest and worse. I stand with them. I support them in what they are doing, today, now. So sue me.

[Marrah_G]

24. yeah whatever

[Mosaic]

27. Occupy is not dead, look around, watch the news, read more

But the 99% Movement and Occupy are synonymous.

[Bragi]

34. I disagree

I read and watch news, and I see camps dwindling and being busted up, and public support as measured in polls eroding.

And I totally disagree that the 99% movement and the Occupy tactic are inseparable.

[Zorra]

32. Freepers everywhere are rejoicing right along with you.

Yet Occupy lives on.

[Bragi]

36. Where do you see rejoicing on my part?

Or do you just assume that anyone who wants to discuss tactics is really trying to undermine a movement? If so, poor you.

[RetroLounge]

41. Try to mask your glee

:puke:

RL

[Zorra]

44. History

Oct 26

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2186517&mesg_id=2189701

Kind of insensitive to rub try to rub it into people's faces, people that put their safety and freedom on the line, don't you think?

Even if it isn't true.

OWS will remain OWS. The solidarity is not and will not be broken.

[Bragi]

47. Yep...

I thought it a mistake from the outset to tie the 99% movement too closely to a tactic that was ultimately unsustainable.

My view on this hasn't changed: the Occupy tactic is proving to be unsustainable.

[Broderick]

49. The corporate owned media blatantly beholden to the 1% has created

a narrative that is causing the occupy movement to have a negative perception. Perceptions fostered and promoted by the media ultimately can become part of the fabric of people's reality. I saw some disturbing trends in polling that the occupy movement has moved below approval of even that of the tea party, and at its current precipitous nose dive it is going to further erode to approval ratings that congress has I fear. I support occupy, but sometimes we fail to recognize the power of the media and its ability to create narratives that drive perception. Even democrats have distanced themselves. Even the Daily show is making fun of it, and when comedy reflects the narrative we can assume where this is headed.

I expect to be filleted for saying this possibly, and yes, I don't have a solution except that perhaps it needs to evolve in some way. Something political to drive the democratic party away from corporatism.

My opinion only.

[Bragi]

52. Good points

You are quite right that the public opinion has dramatically fallen off.

My view is that the initial message of the "We are the 99%" movement hit a nerve with many people because it articulated a truth people know to be true -- that economic inequality and social injustice are increasing -- a truth that has not been openly and seriously talked about literally in decades.

The Occupy tactic itself worked to highlight the message at first, but I felt this tactic was unsustainable, as it was too hard for most people to participate, and the camps themselves were too vulnerable to eventual attack and dispersal by the cops working for the 1%.

I don't have a solution either at this point, though I do urge people not to interpret the defeat of the Occupy tactic as signaling the defeat of the 99% movement itself.

[Broderick]

55. I like that you distinguish the two differently

and that is a great way to think about it, but I fear most equate the two as singular in effort because they go hand in hand in a way. As the media narrative drives perceptions, I see increasing efforts at doing the very thing the 99% percent and occupy movements started against. Holding ports hostage on the West Coast might be construed as financial terrorism in its own way, at least by the media. The 99% and occupy movements were against the financial terrorism dealt by the 1% upon societies, but now the occupy movement is morphing in a similar direction as the 1%, perhaps. The occupy movement seems to use the the 99% as a mantra and as a part of the ambiguity of the movement itself. I see a correlation of financial terrorism almost hypocritical in a way, and it will feed right into the narrative. Of course, I could be wrong. I am not in the know. Always just my opinion.

[EFerrari]

56. Calling resistance "financial terrorism" is straight out of the Fox playbook.

[Broderick]

65. Really? Show me a link to assert that

It is my opinion. I don't watch Fox, but obviously you do. So tell me where this is out of their playbook. I watch the nightly news, and I watch CNN and MSNBC. I see the narratives that are driving perception on the occupy movement. It is my opinion that shutting down ports will work towards that narrative and shutting down ports affects the 1% how? Just my opinion.

[EFerrari]

95. Excuse me? Every act of resistance is called "terrorism".

And if you watch CNN and MSNBC, you should know that.

Shutting down the ports in solidarity with the Longshoreman's union is not terrorism unless you are one of the corporations whose profits are being shut down for the day.

Why don't you go look at pictures of the Oakland strike and see how many port workers cheered, honked or marched right along side of Occupy Oakland?

[Zorra]

58. Successful popular resistance, public opinion, and genuine Financial Terrorism:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2373706&mesg_id=2378909

[Broderick]

67. Financial terrorism is probably not the best

colloquial expression to use in shutting down the ports on my part, but rather the best explanation I could think of to tie the 99% and occupy movements together in a correlation to the 1% and its use of political corporatism to subjugate the 99%.

[Zorra]

69. Yeah, I can see the application.

When the PTB commits the genuine terrorist acts for future profit and control that place the well being of billions of people in jeopardy, these terrorist acts are referred to as "hedge funds" "nonperforming assets", and "rolling over".

When we peacefully assemble on a dock to send a message of power, because we have been rendered politically powerless, they may very well describe it as financial terrorism.

[Broderick]

76. I may have an aversion to

negative public perception. I want change. I want the ship righted on the inequalities and disparity. I want power removed from a few that determine the path and the theft from all. But, I want support from the general population, the 99%, not in name but the 99% who in reality are being beaten down and stolen from on a daily basis from those 1%. When media was bought and sold by monolithic corporations, they sold their souls on reporting the news. Now they create the news with corporate interests at stake. They still wield the power of perception, whether it's liked or not. The media works in unison to create narratives they sell which works in the interests of the masters, and not the interests of the people. This is how war can be started and someone like Bush can have a 90% approval rating in doing so.

[Zorra]

79. They will wield those powers of control until they are removed from power.

That's what this is all about.

"Most of the cast that you meet on the streets speak of true love,
Most of the time they're sittin' and cryin' at home.
One of these days they know they better get goin'
Out of the door and down on the streets all alone."
Truckin', The Grateful Dead
words by Robert Hunter

The American colonist's movements for freedom got lots of bad press, as did the movement in India, and movements for civil rights, women's rights, the abolition movement, and the GLBT human rights movement.

I'm totally done with having my life be partially determined by a bunch of greedy, airheaded, privileged from birth spoiled rotten rich kids.

We can't let bad press stop us. If we don't do it, no one is going to do it for us.

In all seriousness, I'm really not thrilled about driving to LA and spending $500+ to try to send this message to the PTB. I'm not rich. There are many other things I would rather be doing, many other things that I can use the money for.

But there is not much in this world that is more important than doing this right now, and unless someone comes up with a more effective alternative real quick, I'm going to do what I can to free myself, my family, and my country from the control of the 1%.

The sacrifice is worth the potential gain.

People that sit around pissing and moaning, speculating on vague possibilities and maybe ifs, and not ever really doing anything about their situation, never get anything done except to allow things to continue to get worse and worse.

Peace

[Broderick]

83. I really admire your dedication and committment

It is heart warming and refreshing and in the process you are very well educated on the history of movements and your passion is clearly evident.


Thanks.

[Zorra]

89. One of my oldest friends once said this, when I was

heartbroken after ending a long term relationship out of necessitiy:

"Honey, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. So if ya know what ya gotta do, then do it."

Remembering this has served me well and has never failed me.

So, no thanks are necessary. It's just what I have to do.

Thanks for your insightful thoughts.

Posts like yours help me make better decisions about what I "gotta do".
:hi:

[Broderick]

99. I am a thinker, all the time.

I need to try and wrap my mind around things and try to keep emotions out of it so I can see clearly. On emotional levels, I can be hasty or I can be too near sighted in my decision making. Thank you for the kind words. I do admire your passion, and I know that principled feeling of doing what you have to do. Sounds like great advice from your friend, and I can only imagine how hard that decision was to end a long term relationship. I will watch out for your posts in the future so I can get a feel for your feelings with your efforts. The passion is clear. I support those efforts and passion one hundred percent.

[uppityperson]

57. Unrec for patience, grasshopper. My word, people have gotten so used to things happening

immediately that when they don't, they bail.

I don't see an "overall loss of popular support" or that despair.

[bertman]

60. Anyone who expects the Occupy tent sites to grow in size during the winter is

not facing reality. Add to that the increased incidence of local governments trying to disband the Occupy sites and you have a recipe for a dwindling visual presence of tent communities. But that does not mean that Occupy is dead or even dying. We are not even two months old.

The reality is that the Occupy movement's ideas are spreading and gaining support everywhere. The seed has been planted and will burst forth with vitality and many more vigorous new shoots when the weather warms. The fertilizer of a shitty economy, more unemployed Americans, and increased cost of energy and basic goods is being applied liberally to the soils of resistance even as we sit here typing.

LONG LIVE OCCUPY!!

P.S. Bragi, it might help the cause if you, as someone who says he/she is a supporter would refer to yourself as an Occupier and stop calling Occupy 'it'. Yesterday at our family Thanksgiving dinner I proudly and matter of factly described my actions as an occupier and the actions of our Occupy. Most of my family members are hard-core right-wingers but I was getting a lot of positive statements of support for the broad range of ideas about reforming our government and eliminating the influence of Wall Street. Totally the opposite of what I expected. There were the usual complaints of Occupy tent cities being pig pens and murders happening there, but they were being voiced by some of the serious dumbasses in the family. The efforts of Occupy are resonating with people of all political persuasions.

[Bragi]

61. You wrote:

Bragi, it might help the cause if you, as someone who says he/she is a supporter would refer to yourself as an Occupier and stop calling Occupy 'it'

I was an Occupier, but the occupation I participated in has now been forcibly dispersed. I now consider myself a supporter and participant in the 99% Movement, and proud of it.

As to your account of what went down at thanksgiving for you, I think you actually make my point.

According to your account, your relies were supportive of the 99% message about inequality, criminality, cronyism, etc. However, they were not all supportive of the Occupy tactic itself for various reasons.

This illustrates why I think the emphasis needs to be on the message of the 99% movement, not on continuing to promote the Occupy tactic, which is not sustainable, and losing popular support.

[bertman]

63. Apparently you are trying to bury the Occupy movement and rename it something more

to your liking. Occupies all over the country have been forcibly dispersed only to rise again. Take Occupy Raleigh for example, they have been severely harassed on numerous occasions and forcibly dispersed once. They are not allowed to have tents but they still Occupy from their lawn chairs and their sleeping bags right in downtown Raleigh at the state capitol grounds. They get new Occupiers and support from the public even though they are only a token representation of the citizens' support of the Occupy movement. They tell me that the honks of support, the donations of food, hot beverages, blankets, etc. are ongoing, as are the visits by Raleigh's citizens who tell them that they support the Occupy movement even if they cannot stay on the sidewalk with them. The supportive honks, yells, statements outnumber the derogatory ones by 100 to 1.

You do not have to have a tent, a tent village, or a tent city to Occupy. All that is required is a physical presence.

Last weekend I was in Nashville, Tennessee. They were forcibly and physically removed from the grounds of the State Legislative Building twice. They are there now with 80 Occupiers staying despite cold, rain, and the other elements arrayed against them.

Your idea of the 99% movement would be fine if we had not already started the Occupy movement, but the desire to change it now is to say that the Occupy movement has been defeated. Thank goodness the people who are occupying despite the onslaught by the PTB and winter weather are not as ready to capitulate as you are.

If you support Occupy why not take a lawn chair to your 'former' Occupy site and hold a sign saying that you are for the movement and you will not be deterred? Even one person can start rekindling the flame.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

66. In other words, you gave up.

And you let the enemy dictate the terms of your support.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

64. The social revolution is not political ...

I'll call myself an Occupier.

[Broderick]

68. Does that marginalize it at all or enhance it?

Curious, because it seems politicians of both stripes are quite distant from it unless they are fundraising. What are the long range goals? A political movement like the tea party or just disruption that is disavowed by the majority of the public and by all politicians? The corporate media seems to dismiss it to a degree of negative perception seemingly beyond even the tea party movement. I don't know the answer to the question but just throwing up thought food so to speak.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

70. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I hope it doesn't turn political ...

... in terms of a party or vanguard.

I hope it remains social in terms of changing the existing social order at the point of production, and not political in terms of being cultivated by a few political elites. Once that happens, in my view, it turns reactionary, as was the case with the Bolsheviks.

[Broderick]

71. Appreciate the response and the perspective

[Fantastic Anarchist]

75. Thank you for inquiring.

:hi:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

73. This looks very familiar.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=2368347

Youve got your own one-man drum circle.

[Bragi]

80. I already addressed why I repeated the thread... /nt

[Hutzpa]

74. You sound like a very weak individual

I think OWS and 99% can do without your input.

This is the second thread I've seen from you about OWS.

[Bragi]

81. Why is it weak to debate the Occupy tactic? /nt

[fascisthunter]

87. because your efforts to spread gloom are all too obvious

you seem to be pushing a new meme of failure, and many in this movement do not approve nor appreciate the gesture.

[Bragi]

100. Am I to be rounded up for re-eduction, comrade?

You sound like a cold war B-movie script.

[fascisthunter]

101. easy with the DRAMA... it's ok, we understand

it's "hard work"

[Fire Walk With Me]

77. Look ma! Two threads on the same subject!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2368347&mesg_id=2368347

[Zorra]

82. RFK said, "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why?"

and one replied:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2368347&mesg_id=2379652

[Fire Walk With Me]

78. Kickety

[lunatica]

84. Unrec for starting two threads after being thoroughly defeated

for bad writing and severely limited brain work.

[Fire Walk With Me]

85. Uh-Oh, Photo!

[Bragi]

105. Already discussed upthread

Some here think it's treachery to try to get people to distinguish between the 99% movement and the Occupy tactic, but I don't.

I think it's an important distinction to make because the Occupy tactic is long-term unsustainable, and the movement needs to move on.

So I will continue to make this point as and when it seems appropriate.

You have a nice day now.

[fascisthunter]

86. very interesting post

unrec

[CJCRANE]

88. OCCUPY = 99% = OCCUPY

They are now synonymous.

[CJCRANE]

90. _

[Bragi]

106. Nope!

Occupy is a tactic, the 99% is a movement.

[CJCRANE]

107. That's what I thought at first, but in fact the Occupiers created the 99% movement...

The OWS motto is "We are the 99%".

So you can't say Occupy without mentioning the 99% and vice versa.

[Marr]

91. Does this particular poster have a history of attacking OWS or something?

Because I think I understand his/her point and I think it's an interesting one.

[CJCRANE]

93. Look at the tone of the OP...

OWS decisions are made by consensus. Do you think this poster speaks for OWS?

[Zorra]

94. Yes. Apparently, Occupy has been dead since Oct. 26, or before:

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2186517&mesg_id=2186517

[Marr]

96. Very interesting.

I have to say I would understand the sentiment itself, were it only voiced today. But going back a month for the same thing is... well, very interesting.

[Bragi]

102. Thanks for reading

Some here think discussion of tactics equals treason. Such is life.

[Desertrose]

92. Umm...no Occupy is FAR from dead.

Good try though.

[inna]

97. hey, i don't necessarily agree, but i did rec, fwisw

not sure why this was unrec'd into oblivion and so poorly received...


i think people somehow missed the main message - support for the 99% mvmt...


oh well. not the first time. :shrug:

[Huey P. Long]

98. As has been noted, the poster has been spamming the board for a month now with the same

OP. Maybe read the responses for a clue?

[Bragi]

104. Hah!

Actually, extensive research would show I've been here for almost a decade secretly waiting to make the scurrilous and dangerous case for distinguishing between the 99% movement and the Occupy tactic. I'm a totally long-term prescient spammer.

:rofl:

[Bragi]

103. Thanks for that!

You are indeed correct.