So as the crisis deepens

[nadinbrzezinski]

and we see the social safety net completely gutted. I gotta wonder... how long until Americans will finally take to the streets? It is not about if... but when... when will they finally take to the streets?

Will it be when they finally realize that they are on their own?

Or will it be when the elderly start falling off like flies?

It is coming... and no, it is not me wanting that. But we are now in a crisis era... and the crisis will only deepen.

Oh and as to elections... who the hell cares? vote, but realize that it don't matter who you vote for any more... it matters not.

The game IS rigged.

[Bobbieo]

1. I sure don't like the idea of La Familia hanging around the DC area.

That is scary!

[Rex]

2. You are equating crisis with all out nuclear fallout scenarios.

The groceries will still get to the market on time, just will cost 500 percent more then before the economic meltdown and people will learn to live with it. Easier to live like a starving serf then die like a revolutionary dog. Trust me, Americans don't have an ounce of revolt in them (maybe a 100 years ago). Besides half starving, always working people can't think well and are very easy to control. My point is this just will get easier for the ruling parties as you and I lose more and more 'entitlements' like having enough money to pay for the Internet. When they come for our Internet, then we are screwed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. No people tolerates this forever

that is a law of history. You can look it up... but history has even the most of compliant of people revolting sooner or later.

As to the net, yes that will be taken away sooner rather than later, as an effort to avoid that historic law. But it will happen... even in the US.

[Warpy]

7. You bet it will.

The longer they try to stall it by doing things like shutting the net down (like that ever stopped anybody) and declaring martial law to keep the big cities quiet, the worse it's going to be when it happens.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. They are doing this since they also know the empire is collapsing

this is a symptom of it...

And when it happens, bets will be off.

[TheKentuckian]

12. Depends on how quickly the conditioning of the official state religion can break down.

The current digging in, even deep into the Democratic party is a precursor to letting go or just tomfoolery is yet to play out. We could be closer to the beginning than the end if the people slumber and meekly accept the conditions we see for the masses in India as long as they come somewhat gradually.

Right now it seems like we have a population that is largely custom built to boil in the pot if you don't rush it too much.

The sheep not only go to the slaughter but go after any who don't stay on the path.

[AndyTiedye]

21. They Do If It is Imposed by a Theocracy

That is the reason for the unholy alliance between the Fundies and the robber barons.

The people may revolt against an ordinary despot eventually,
but when has any people, anywhere, ever revolted against a theocracy?

[leveymg]

25. The Czar was the head of the Russian Orthodox Church. There are many other examples:

the emperors of Rome were deified, yet there were many revolts and civil wars; Nazism was a form of state religion; the Catholic sovereigns of Europe claimed rule by divine right. The Mayan civilization was a theocracy that abruptly collapsed in the 9th Century. . . theocracies aren't immune to uprisings and sudden downfalls.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. ThevRussian Revolution is the best example

But there are others as well...

Rome comes to mind, it was to a point

Oh the Jacquerie as well

Should I mention the French Revolution who's king was brought to Earth by god himself?

[rsmith6621]

3. rec........

.......SADLY I am starting to feel the same way...

[OmahaBlueDog]

4. They won't take to the streets

Not in our generation.

People now believe that their lack of money is a sign of their own inadequacy. They know the net is about to be cut from beneath them, and they feel they deserve what's coming.

If they were smart, or had God's grace, they'd be rich. It's. that. simple.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. That goes back four hundred years

but people will rise... sooner or later. that is kind of a law of history. Sooner or later any people have had enough.

And it will probably happen as soon as the Empire crumbles... but people will.

[Pathwalker]

28. Oh yeah? Check out this thread:

link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=25151&mesg_id=25151

Yes, it's small but it's a START! And we gotta start somewhere....

[Lorien]

55. Yep. 30 years without the Fairness Doctrine, and they're indoctrinated

to believe the GOP party line. Hook, line, sinker.

[Newest Reality]

8. Many have and will be taking the streets ...

well, living on the streets, mostly. In many places it is illegal.

I would not underestimate the potential for a mental revolution when you consider just how our own thoughts and actions effect, (sometimes in small, subtle ways and other times, dramatically) the context we are in.

In that case, thinking that a revolt is some huge, laborious, violent and awful task can be self-defeating, to say the least. Just as self-defeating as expecting working in and with this rigged, wealth-serving system will effect the necessary change.

It is the thousands of cuts and handfuls of sand in the gears that can be most effective.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. There is a spirit of crisis

people KNOW something is really wrong...

They might not know why, but they know.

[Ozymanithrax]

11. To put this in perspective...the social safety net is being gutted also in...

Greece, Ireland, Spain, England, Germany...

In fact, one world wide casualty of this economic crises has been social safety nets. Well, except of Iceland where they spanked the bankers and said no.

I know you are talking about the ongoing Constitutional Crises, but I did want to point out that our exceptionalism doesn't seem to have protected us from the fate of Greece and Ireland, it is just delayed.

The Senate has barely functioned for two years. If the Republican carry through on their threats, we could see something that the founding fathers did not foresee, a branch of the government that refuses to do its job in accordance with the Constitution.

I know that "compromise" is considered a dirty word here, but compromise is required in our government. If one party gains control and refuses to compromise, everything comes crashing down.

The government can only function for a short time without money raised by Congress, as we saw under Clinton. Under Clinton the problem happened in September/October, and the President had some funds he could move around. But now, the government has little or no money. If there is not compromise, the government shuts down. Our wars, among the most expensive enterprises on our plate, will come to a screeching halt as bullets and gas runs out. There is no money to fly the boys home.

Social Security checks will stop. The Post office ceases to function. Many of the major hospitals stop functioning. Medicare, history. No money no worky.

Shut down funding of the federal government and anything that requires federal funds is gone in a relatively short amount of time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. THis is world wide

and we will join other crowds in the streets sooner or later.

I know that.

And this will continue to deepen... it will NOT be a happy next year.

[Ozymanithrax]

14. Even if they pass a continuing resolution to spending..to February..

I mean, when was the last time Congress did a budget in less than 30 days. Normally, budgets take a year.

Actually, if they do this by passing small bills to fund individual programs, then they could effectively gut every social safety net program.

No money...no program.

Where does the money for funding operations of the U.S. Social Security Administration come from? It is part of the federal budget. If it doesn't receive funding no checks are mailed. Kind of scary.

[defendandprotect]

16. This time they're not taking down a few countries and leaving anyone standing to

rescue anyone --

they learned that lesson last time around when they had everything just

the way they wanted it -- populations living in fear of right wing violence --

concentration camps and trains -- !!

[defendandprotect]

15. Does the public actually understand the threat of this legislation? I don't know?

We're a huge liberal/progressive voting bloc --

trust no one will go off alone -- we should decide together what we can do.

Also, there are many ways to conduct non-violent opposition ... as long as

we are all united.

Seniors aren't even united -- only thing they have that unites them is AARP

which is an insurance company!!

How aware are Americans about what is really going on?

A capitalistic crime wave -- !!

[jtown1123]

43. Not necessarily true. Many progressive seniors do not support AARP.

There are plenty of other senior organizations that don't sell insurance or don't have corporate backers.

[defendandprotect]

51. How many seniors do those organizations represent?

Who are they?

If you know, that is ...

Of course AARP doesn't unite seniors -- what I was pointing out is that they

are NOT united in any way --

Most deal with AARP, howevever, because they need supplementary insurance --

[Amonester]

17. Learn to know the enemies before they shut down the net:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x576379

Spread the leaks given in the OP (on facebook, et cetera.)

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Amonester]

19. The starving people in the streets won't give a flying

eff what other lie any political-gain motivated politician will puke out (again) by then.

But they sure will know that failed system is rigged.

For their obscene benefits only.

[eridani]

20. Two thirds of the population is just fine, thankyewverymuch

And they's sooner sport hunt the remaining third than pay an extra penny in taxes to change the situation.

The only question is whether or not the the 1/3 disposable human garbage can figure out some organized ways to cause real damage.

[cali]

22. it's your panting anticipation that I find so

disconcerting. disaster junkies are sickening.

[OneGrassRoot]

24. I just learned a new word that I find humorous, though disturbing...

"disasterbaters"

I'm not saying nadin is a disasterbater, though I admit I don't understand the purpose of the multiple similar OPs, wondering when the revolution and destruction will occur.

I FINALLY had a "duh" moment recently that most message boards are strictly about venting, not doing anything about issues or concerns. So, perhaps the OPs are simply to express what is on her mind based on her observations, with no other intent beyond that, and are cathartic in some way.

:shrug:

Anyway, your comment reminded me of that word and I wanted to share.

I'll also use this post as an opportunity to express my puzzlement with people who post about everything being hopeless. If one were truly hopeless, would he/she be posting on a message board, arguing and debating anything? I TOTALLY get that people are furious, afraid, in despair; I really get that, and feel it's justified. But rather than join together and try to do something -- anything -- to no longer feel like a victim, the overwhelming majority of online posters seem to want to convince others of how hopeless everything is and tear down those trying to think of ways to change the course in any way possible.

They say they want to wake everyone up, but then say everything is hopeless. Mixed message to me.

What is the point of "waking everyone up" to the hopelessness of everything (with the given that, if things are hopeless there is nothing to be done about it), other than misery loving company? It gets us nowhere and is a self-fulfilling prophecy. People here are too smart for that, or so I'd like to think.

Another :shrug:


edit for clarity

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. I am just putting together trends

It does have a technical name: trend spotting.

So I will posting those trends as they coalesce into something more clear. By the way the latest bill from dc is part of the trend...empires do that. They will eat their own in an effort to survive.

[OneGrassRoot]

38. I am familiar with, and appreciate, trendspotting...

An OP such as this one is very vague to me. Multiple OPs such as this one confuse me, whereas I can appreciate when you share specifics that you see are part of a trend.

Maybe my impression of the totality of your OPs is wrong of late; maybe most are providing specifics in order to show potential trends.

Regardless, it's my choice to click on and read, no one is forcing me.

:)

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. I have posted ones with far more detail granted

alas it does not matter how much detail, at this point the forces are in place, they are accelerating, and I am not the only one noticing these trends.

Perhaps it is my professional training as a historian that makes me stand up and pay attention to what is going on right now and go, uh-oh...

Here is one book I am in the process of re-readying. While I do not fully agree with the thesis, history does have definite echoes. It is called The Fourth Turning, and we are, to use their words, entering the crisis in the hundred year cycle.

[OneGrassRoot]

41. I've seen that book mentioned MANY times recently...

from various people, at various sites.

That in itself is a trend. ;)

I'll check it out.

[Pathwalker]

29. Here's someone else for you to criticize:

link:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x26930

Trying to warn people does not equal panting anticipation, ya know. Some of us are actually WORRIED.

[cali]

31. uh, how would you suggest I get to that thread?

And I'm not suggesting we shouldn't be worried. I'm suggesting that the OP posts the same apocalyptic thread over and over and over and over and over.....

[Pathwalker]

32. Oops, I'll try that link again...

link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x26930

okay, I think that one works. IF NOT, it's the thread about the empire collapsing. No one knows when this will happen, but it will happen....someday. Being old, broke and sick is a bad place to be when the empire is crumbling. I know, because that's where I am.

[Selatius]

23. Somebody told me once it takes roughly three generations before the lessons are forgotten once again

It's been about three generations. The generation that lived through World War 2 and lived through the Great Depression and elected FDR and supported the New Deal is largely gone from this world.

They are not there anymore to impart their wisdom to us.

I fear we will lose it all, the safety nets, everything, before people finally do something, because, as you know, the level of human misery during the Great Depression was so great that if FDR had not done anything substantial or adequate to meet the challenges, kinda like what Bush and Obama failed to do, then there will be food riots, which will lead to general rioting, and then that's when the US either finds another FDR just in time, or ends up like Spain 1930s with all that bloodshed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. You NEED to read the fourth turning.

[MsLeopard]

40. Excellent book

I saw you recommend it months ago and bought it and read it. Amazing how it was written in the late 90s but got so much correct in predicting happenings during the past decade. Thanks for the recommendation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. You welcome

I might not agree with the whole thesis, but it is far more approachable than Toynbee.

[yodermon]

26. let them eat beautiful propaganda in 720p

not only is it rigged but it's rigged so badly that the inevitable "populist" anger has been co-opted by the corporatists.
If there is a revolt it will be under the tea party brand.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Once the empire does collapse, I will make no predictions

As to how internally that will go. I expect to break apart. But that is my expectation. In some regions the right will create dystopias while others will be better places to live. I hope to be on the right side of a line when it happens.

[piratefish08]

27. American Idol starts again in Jan, so the Dems can pretty much put their bullshit on auto-pilot

until spring. The masses won't even notice.

[Donnachaidh]

30. when the young yuppies are forced to pay nursing hime fees, because SS is gutted

They'll get their tax cuts, but will wind up paying more in the long run when their elderly parents run out of savings and medicare/Social Security won't pay for all the nursing home charges or medication charges.

When THEY get stuck with actual physical and monetarily supporting their parents you'll see a shitstorm. And that's only because they'll be SHAMED into taking care of the parents the social safety net was there to protect.

[jtown1123]

44. Yes, people can barely afford caring for their unemployed children. Now they will have to support

their parents. This is so crazy. People will get pissed.

[defendandprotect]

53. "Yuppies" didn't push this -- Obama did ...obama and the GOP ....

As far as I can see, "Yuppies" will be losing jobs as fast and as often as

anyone else --

[SidDithers]

37. Comedy gold...

Everyone panic!!



Sid

[Ikonoklast]

45. TRENDS!!1!1

And the gullible here eat this pile of steaming turds with a spoon, and call it ice cream.


I find it odd that those whose life is one disaster after another thinks that the entire world, and everyone in it feels the same way about there lives, too.

No perspective whatsoever.

[cali]

47. pretentious, faux intellectual blather.

and I doubt that people whose lives really are beleaguered by disaster engage in this crap.

[blindpig]

46. Won't know except in retrospect.

That is always the way of things. It will be unexpected, as the ruling class will have the expected pretty well covered. Could be a situational excess which sets it off who knows. One thing for sure though, if there ain't an organizational presences to follow through then it will all be for naught.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. It is not fully unexpected to those who know history

and understand trends.

And it will come, the exact day or time nobody can predict though.

[blindpig]

49. You asked, "..when will they finally take to the streets?"

And then you repeat my answer in part. Of course it is coming. You think you're the only person to know any history around here? Jesus, you'd teach your grandmother to suck eggs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. I didn't say that

jesus, people are defensive round these parts.

You know since you KNOW HISTORY and can spot the fucking trends.

Others, look around this place, CAN'T and are proud of it. Or worst, they are in denial

[Bragi]

52. You wanna know the historical trends?

Well, it's this: throughout human history, at every era, most people are oppressed and downtrodden.

Occasionally, the oppressed rise up, and smite their oppressors, but only occasionally.

For the most part, they just remain oppressed, and get by as best they can.

The usual human condition is oppression. That's history.

[defendandprotect]

54. That's the history of elite violence ....

And that violence of the few is something the world has been trying

to figure out how to deal with since time began --

Obviously, we still don't have the answer to it --

[CoffeeCat]

56. I think it will be like V for Vendetta...

I'm sorry to be pessimistic, but if they aren't in the streets now--they
never will be. It all happened too slowly--and we are all too pulled
inward, hooked on electronics and traumatized to deal.

Most people do not understand what Fascism is. They think only bad
things happen when your President is goosestepping and has a funny, little
mustache. They don't understand the grave implications of corporations
having complete control of our government via corrupt, dirty, sociopathic
politicians.

Anything that takes more than a few sentences to explain--and the eyes glaze over.

That's why Beck and Limbaugh work so well. A couple of hateful, fear-based
zingers--and suddenly they've developed a new reality. Explaining that the
public option isn't "socialized medicine" takes at least five minutes of
thorough, rational discussion--and the recipient must be reasonable and
willing to listen.

We don't have any of that anymore. I'm sorry but we don't.

The answer no longer lies in our political system. Nor does it lie with the American
people. It lies within ourselves and in the people around us who do understand what
is happening.

I joined a gym. That's my way of handling it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. There are days I want to give completely up

alas here we are.

:hi:

[CoffeeCat]

58. I think you DO have to give up on certain things...

..and move on and work on the things that you can control.

I can't do anything about the Fascism. I don't even consider my vote to be helpful. I
consider it to be a joke.

I can't rely on the America people. I mean really--30 percent of them want Sarah Palin
at the helm.

It's all about keeping faith, hope and strength alive in yourself--and finding other
like-minded individuals. Take care of yourself and each other.

DU is great for that, for sure! :hi:

[Bragi]

59. You speak wisely. I agree. /nt

[DemReadingDU]

60. People won't be in the streets, until

The government's 'extend and pretend' is still keeping many people warm, comfortable, and filled with food. When more and more people lose their jobs, have no savings, run out of unemployment monies, no credit card, no food stamps, and are hungry, that is when people will be in the streets.