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aaaaaa5a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:10 PM
Original message
Progressives support the Steelers
The Steelers owner was such a big Obama supporter that Obama made him the ambassador to Ireland when he won the Presidency.

The Steelers are very progressive.

The Steelers owner Dan Rooney is the author of what the NFL calls the "Rooney Rule." It states that all NFL teams when looking to hire an NFL head coach must include minority candidates. It has led to an increase in black head coaches in the NFL. A few weeks ago, the NFL team in North Carolina hired a hispanic person to be head coach of their team. The NFL now has more minority head coaches than ever, thanks in part to the work of the Steelers owner.


Several years ago, the Steelers were the first team in the history of the NFL to have a female trainer as a part of their full time staff. I believe they are still the only team in the NFL to have a female trainer on their coaching NFL roster.

They are a very inclusive organization. NO WONDER, they are the most successful franchise in the Super Bowl history of the NFL.


OBTW…. The Steelers have a black head coach who is on his way to his second Super Bowl in the last 3 years.


GO STEELERS
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Rooney is the man. No question about that.
BUT...

The Steelers' star QB has assaulted women repeatedly.

Rush "OxyMoron" Limbaugh is a Steelers fan. (okay, not your fault, but still...)

AND...

The Green Bay Packers are the ONLY publicly-owned team in U.S. big-league pro sports.

So basically, progressives can't really lose!
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Yes but.......we are a corporation!
Probably one of the few good Corporations left not looking to offshore the work.
:-)
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sailor65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. Protecting and enabling abusers of women
is a Progressive trait??

I guess I didn't get that memo.....
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Fuck the Steelers, their QB is a fucking rapist.
And the Cheeseheads are owned by the PEOPLE of Green Bay.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. +a bunch! nt.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. +a buncher. nt
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Packers have had their share of rapists, too.
Chmura was Favre's buddy with a much worse, imo, problem than Ben's.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Difference between Mark Chmura and Ben?
Edited on Sun Jan-23-11 11:07 PM by ScreamingMeemie
The Pack got rid of their troublemaker. Steelers appear to be "proud" of theirs.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
48. Surprise! Chmura is also a huge repuke
who refused to visit the Clinton White House after their Super Bowl win. :eyes:
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. Hey!
Good to see you! I was not sorry in the least to seek Chmura go.

My dad (part owner of the Pack) is ecstatic right now and it's making me homesick.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #13
69. Chmura was an arse.
But to say he was worse than Roethlisburger is just silliness.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. +1 n/t
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The Gunslinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
40. He was accused.
The case was dropped. I guess anyone accused of sexual assault is a rapist even though the case got dropped. I know a couple of people who's lives were ruined by false accusations like that when people assumed they were true but were not.
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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
50. Lots of Rapists and Freaks In the NFL. Jim Brown Makes Me Sick
the way Cleveland keeps that POS on a pedestal is disgusting.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
76. +1
The Steelers can suck a fat one.
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delightfulstar Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
78. + some more!!!
Big Ben is a Big PIG in my book.
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
87. +1
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rsmith6621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Im Progressive and I Cant Stand the Word's......



....Pittsburgh STEELER'S...
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. GO PACKERS! n/t
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FarLeftRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. Can't support a rapist/qb...
N/T
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. +again. nt.
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bainz Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Same here
Which I why I had a hard time rooting for either team in the AFC game. With both starting Quarterback's history of sexual assault/rape accusations, I will root for the NFC this year.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. Call me when they give sexual harasser Roethlisberger the boot. n/t
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. +++more! nt.
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. thank you
fucking rapist.

the prosecutor here in georgia declined to press charges.

yet all i read here is about how fucked up michael vick is. georgia let Rothlesberger off the hook(raping women), yet couldn't wait to fry vick.

two wrongs don't make a right.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. You'd think there'd be a little more outrage when the commentators
gush over "Big Ben" or the determination of nekkid-pic-texting Brett Favre, but the only enduring hate expressed for a pro football player around here is for "sociopath" Vick.
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #29
45. I'm still reeling over that
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
56. Michael Vick is fucked up and deserves contempt. "Big Ben" deserves worse.
I don't dig torturing animals (or the proven related drugs, prostitution, gambling and other assorted shithead scumbag behavior)or sexual assault of humans.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. Vick was charged and convicted, Roethlisberger was never even charged.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. If I were to make a list of the top 10 douchebags in sports, he'd be near the top.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. Making sports political is silly. nt
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Hating RAPISTS is "Political"?
I'm good friends of a gal who is a rape survivor, I have good reason to hate the shit out of rapists. :grr:
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. That's not political, is it?
I just think painting any part of a multi-billion-dollar sports enterprise as "progressive" is ridiculous.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. +1 n/t
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
68. Yes, it is.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
16. As someone who watched Jericho Cotchery play throughout his
college career along side teammate Phillip Rivers when they played at NC State, I was disappointed in tonight's outcome. Besides, it's someone else's turn.
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
18. For those who won't support the Steelers because of Ben
(and I have no horse in this game. I'm a Vikings fan. My AFC team is the Jets).

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/95693179.html
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. Erm...that ended quite a bit differently...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/403000-green-bays-underwood-will-not-be-charged-with-sexual-assault

snip-

Underwood met the women at Cruisin' Chubby's, a gentlemen's club, and solicited one of them to come back to his room.

While the encounter was taking place, the other woman attempted to rob the player. Once she was discovered, the two women were thrown out of the condo.

The women then called the police and reported the alleged assault. After filing the report the women were reportedly seen laughing and carrying on.

-snip

snip-

The two women who filed the charges will probably be charged with prostitution and filing a false report.

-snip


***That said I think he's a creep and wish the Packers would get rid of him for his immature behavior, like they did with Chmura.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #30
71. Yeah, they should dump him.
But it's still funny to watch the Vikings fan trip over himself on this one.

:rofl:
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GigiMommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
19. GO STEELERS!!!!
We're going to the SUPER BOWL AGAIN!!!!!!!:woohoo: :applause: :loveya:
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Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
24. So, since I was rooting for the Jets, does that mean I'm a conservative?
I can't support a team that supports a rapist for a quarterback. If the Steelers want any credibility from me, they need to get rid of him.
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bainz Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. Then why root for the Jets?
Their starting QB was once arrested for sexual assault, correct?
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Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Sanchez?
Edited on Sun Jan-23-11 11:22 PM by Lucian
Edit: Ah. It was a "he said, she said" kind of situation: http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local&id=4209059

And I didn't know about that until tonight. Now I can't stand him.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #31
57. True but I rooted for the Jets because I have more contempt for the Steelers.
Kind of like Hitler v. Pol Pot. You have to pick the one that makes you less sick.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #24
72. Are you a life-long Jets fan?
Do you expect life-long Steelers fans to dump the team?
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
25. I like the Steelers, but I really hate Ben Rothlisberger.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
26. ...
:puke:
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
27. Progressives support whatever team they want, because it's football...
not politics.

Thank you. Go, Pack, GO!
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #27
73. +1,000,000,000,000!!!
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
33. Mixing "politics" and sports on DU? Bad idea.
The dogfighting apologists here know what I'm talking about. I don't like Ben for what's been alleged about him, but shit, Vick was convicted.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I've been saying that since I first joined.
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aaaaaa5a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
34. The thread was talking about the Steelers organization….


If you change the parameters to argue that what team you support should be based on the legal status of every single player on the roster, then I guess we can't be fans of any team.

Each NFL team has a 53 man roster, plus coaches, trainers etc. which could add up to an additional 20 or more people in terns of staff. Can anyone show me any corporation where there are 70-75 people who have no difficulties?

By the way… whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?


The Pittsburgh Steelers organization has been a huge plus to the NFL and sports in general. The thread is about the Steelers organization. Not Big Ben's personal life.












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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #34
75. So what?
It doesn't matter. As everyone knows, we would all be better off if all sports teams were owned the way the Packers are owned. Still, I'm not going to run around telling everyone to root for the Packers because their ownership model makes more sense from a progressive, everyday citizen standpoint.

Just enjoy the game. It's entertainment.
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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
37. There is no "progressive" franchise in any sport.
Consider the makeup of any American pro sporting franchise: a wealthy owner, extremely-well compensated players, a small cadre of coaches and white collars who run the team, followed by a whole mess of people who make a pittance selling tickets, running concessions and performing the day-to-day grunt work of running the franchise. Let's not go about pretending a team that happens to have a black head coach is akin to some kind of labor union.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
38. Rush Limpball's favorite team is the Steelers.
Enjoy being in the same company.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Who play in Heinz Field. Teresa Heinz Kerry being a big fan.
Teresa Heinz Kerry being John Kerry's wife...well you see where I'm going.

See, again, mixing "politics" and sports. Bad idea.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #38
46. I thought he was a Rams fan, no?
Didn't he try to buy them?
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. He still loves the Steelers.
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somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
41. Whatever. Go Packers!
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KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
42. Steeler fans are really rude and hateful! No thanks!
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
43. I loves me some rapist star quarterbacks...
How about this...
I want Pitsburgh to get embarrassed because I love Cleveland.
I wanted Green Bay to destroy Chicago because... it's friggen Chicago. F*** Chigaco.

I can haz be librul enough?
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
44. Sorry, but I can't in good conscience root for Ben Rapelisberger
or James "I LIKE HURTING PEOPLE" Harrison.

I'm on the Packers bandwagon till the end.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
49. Boo Steelers. Boo.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
51. Fuck that

The Packers are publicly owned, they are not a plaything of some rich asshole like Robert Irsay.

Remember the Baltimore Colts.

Go Packers.
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Tommy_Carcetti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
52. Progressives support whatever team the progressives want to support.
Says this Ravens fan.

Seriously, there ought to be a separation of sports and state on internet message boards.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
53. You REALLY don't have to inject politics into everything
If you eat your steak rare you are probably a repuke

If you only use light salad dressing you are probably a dem

If you drive a mustang you are probably a repuke

If you paint your house with using pastel colors, dem

If you watch the History channel, repuke

If you don't know how to butcher a sow, dem

If you listen to country, repuke

If you like Justin Bieber, just fucking stupid :rofl:
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
54. This progressive supports the Packers. nt
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
58. what about us non sports fans?
Do we still need to engage in this? Or you mind if we just take the day off and go to the movies?
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #58
74. I go skiing (cross country).
It's the best weekend day of the year to hit the mountain!
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
59. YEARGHH!! GO STEELERS!!! (or Stillers, for all yinz guys who are natives)
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #59
80. Yinz must be North Side....Yunz is South Side
;)

:rofl:

Lifelong Steelers fan here; NOT a Ben fan. It's rough when you don't like the QB. :(

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Wounded Bear Donating Member (665 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
61. Sorry, no can do....
Yeah, some of that shit sounds good and all, but I just can't do it.

Old memories die hard.

<<<<-----
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
62. bullshit
I'm a Bears fan and I am rooting for the Packers
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #62
64. Me, too
I'm from Chicago(go Bears). But the Bears lost and since Aaron Rogers went to Cal(go the other Bears) so the Packers is it for me.

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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. I'm an Illinois native but two of my brothers are Wisconsin natives / cheeseheads
I lived in Madison for a couple years and loved it :D
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #62
67. +1
Well, I'm a Packers fan, but I knew I'd be rooting for either the Packers or the Bears in the Super Bowl.

Of course, my better half is from Chicago.

Anyway...

:toast:
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
63. Sorry. Browns fan, here.
It's just not possible to root for the Steelers.
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #63
82. ditto
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
65. bu-bu-bu-but the Packers are socialists....The city owns the team!
Never mind, I'm very impressed with what you said about the Steelers--and they kick major ass. That's going to be a great game!
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NuclearDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
70. Right, forgot that since I'm a progressive I have to support the Steelers
Sorry Peyton! Colts ain't progressive enough for me I guess.

:eyes:
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aaaaaa5a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #70
86. The Colts are good too!

When Rush Limbaugh wanted to buy the Rams, the Colts owner Jim Irsay was on of the first NFL owners to come out against it. The Colts spearheaded the drive to get Limbaugh out. The Colts were also the first team in NFL history to win a championship with a black head coach.



So you are okay with the Colts. Although Manning has been known to give money to Republican candidates.








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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
77. It's a fucking football game.
Anyway, I stopped paying attention when the Bears lost.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
79. cnn headline. R on the road to redemption. forget the rape, he played some good football
so all is ok.

nope.

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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
81. The Rooney family has done so much for the NFL.
They have been a class act forever. Keeping Roethlisberger on the team will be a stain on their record for years to come. They could win the next ten Super Bowls with Ben at the helm and it won't erase that. And that's a damn shame.
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
83. Nope
Pittsburgh sucks, sorry
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
84. As a Cowboys fan, I don't like the Packers.
They are rivals.

But, I hate the Steelers.

They are the enemy.

(And, Big Ben is Large Lout.)
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
85. Seahawks fan. I'll support the Stealers over my dead body.
Enjoy knowing that Super Bowl XL will have an asterisk after it forever. The officiating was the worst hundreds of sportscasters/sportswriters have ever seen in a sporting event, and cost the Seahawks a win.

If I wasn't already pissed about that, I don't cheer for a date rapist.

:eyes:
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