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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 07:11 PM Original message |
LBJ and McNamara |
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denem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 07:19 PM Response to Original message |
1. The worst decision LBJ ever made. McNamara wanted to leave, |
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Octafish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 12:43 PM Response to Reply #1 |
24. Kennedy was trying to leave. LBJ, McNamara, Harriman and Lodge sided with War Inc. |
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denem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 04:39 PM Response to Reply #24 |
28. Sorry. McNamara wanted to leave the Administration, |
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PoliticAverse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:11 PM Response to Original message |
2. "We were behaving like war criminals" |
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Octafish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:16 PM Response to Original message |
3. Those two lied America into war with their phony Gulf of Tonkin casus belli. |
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Pavulon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:27 PM Response to Reply #3 |
5. I believe Diem would disagree. |
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Puregonzo1188 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:29 PM Response to Reply #5 |
7. "If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged." |
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Pavulon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:32 PM Response to Reply #7 |
9. Yep. but noam was not incinerated in the cuban missile crisis, so he |
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apocalypsehow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:37 PM Response to Reply #9 |
13. And again we agree. n/t. |
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Puregonzo1188 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:49 PM Response to Reply #9 |
20. Would the Cuban Missile Crisis have happened if the US hadn't invaded Cuba |
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apocalypsehow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:31 PM Response to Reply #5 |
8. I remember how shocked I was when I learned in college that the President who ordered Agent Orange |
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Pavulon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:33 PM Response to Reply #8 |
10. To be clear I am NOT attacking kennedy. He was a great man |
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apocalypsehow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:36 PM Response to Reply #10 |
11. Me either - I still admire him immensely. It was the dictates of the Cold War that drove many unwise |
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Puregonzo1188 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:45 PM Response to Reply #11 |
18. And what drove them before 1948? In addition to the Spanish American War and World War I |
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Octafish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:56 PM Response to Reply #5 |
21. Former Bush business partner Averell Harriman directed coup against Diem, over Kennedy's orders. |
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Pavulon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 08:52 AM Response to Reply #21 |
22. Umm, that is not supported by the LOC or historians |
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Octafish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 10:14 AM Response to Reply #22 |
23. As with Iraq in 2002, mainstream media in '63 lied like rugs regarding the run-up to war in Vietnam. |
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Puregonzo1188 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:26 PM Response to Original message |
4. What's the context of this picture? |
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apocalypsehow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:28 PM Response to Original message |
6. Johnson & McNamara were largely mired in a war of JFK's making. See sig line. n/t. |
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coalition_unwilling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:37 PM Response to Reply #6 |
12. With all due respect, Johnson and McNamara made their own war. The Gulf of Tonkin |
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Pavulon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:39 PM Response to Reply #12 |
15. Stage was set before then. A bright and shining lie |
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coalition_unwilling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 04:33 PM Response to Reply #15 |
25. I've read it and agree that it is awesome. Opinions among pro |
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apocalypsehow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:41 PM Response to Reply #12 |
17. We'll simply have to agree to disagree, respectfully: Vietnam was JFK's war, for all sorts of |
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Puregonzo1188 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:46 PM Response to Reply #17 |
19. Vietnam was the US's war from Truman through Nixon. |
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coalition_unwilling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 04:35 PM Response to Reply #19 |
26. Yes, that is true. In 1945, Ho Chi Minh quoted from the U.S.Declaration |
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Puregonzo1188 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:38 PM Response to Reply #6 |
14. And he was mired in Eisenhower's warmaking. |
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Pavulon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:40 PM Response to Reply #14 |
16. Correct. That was a massive error and could have made an ally |
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coalition_unwilling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 04:38 PM Response to Reply #14 |
27. Eisenhower didn't want to get all caught up in a new iteration of |
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