Okay, Obama said last night: "First, we oppose violence..."

[Bragi]

Now that Mubarak has sent his police to inflict violence on peaceful protesters, Obama now has to be clear and explicitly back the demand of the protesters: that Mubarak leave NOW, not nine months from now, after the next election.

If Obama continues to sit on the fence, then I believe Mubarak will still fall, probably later this week,a nd no-one should be then be surprised that the U.S, caught once again on the wrong side of history, will have limited influence over what happens next.

[msongs]

1. all mubarak has to do is say he is a republican lol nt

[MichiganVote]

2. Since when does the US oppose violence?

[BeFree]

4. Oh c'mon, of course we do

We are all about love.

Why, we loved Iraq so much we bombed the crap out of their country. Just to keep the violence from getting worse.

Billions of dollars later and Iraq is just a fond memory now. Go USA!

[tabatha]

3. Obama is not on the wrong side of history

no matter which way it goes. He has to be neutral.

[RegieRocker]

5. Poppycock. Neutral as in no physical actions yes. Verbal no.

Neutral on Democracy? No way!

[tabatha]

6. He has already promoted democracy.

Did you not hear it?

He has to be in neutral in the process of the Egyptians choosing their leader - that is what democracy is about.

[Bragi]

8. He backed Mubarak's attempt to not leave now /nt

[tabatha]

11. He DID NOT.

He sent an envoy to tell Muburak to step down, but Muburak refused.

[Bragi]

12. The famous secret meeting of the secret envoy again?

Sorry, I have to base my views on events that actually happen, and statements actually made, not on secret meetings allegedly held.

And even if such an invisible envoy was sent and sent packing, then why would Obama not then have said explicitly last night that he supported the demands of the protesters that Mubarak leave NOW, instead of being "diplomatic" and thereby emboldeneing Mubarak and setting the stage for today's violence?

[tabatha]

14. Obama did say he supported the demands of the protestors.

I don't think you comprehend what he said.

He said

--- rulers are only there at the will of the people
--- the start of the transition must occur now

And,

"Frank Wisner is in Cairo. The U.S. Government asked him to go. As someone with deep experience in the region, he is meeting with Egyptian officials and providing his assessment," the State Department said in a statement today.

[Bragi]

17. He made it clear he's okay with Mubarak leading the "transition"

He made no statement indicating any disagreement with Mubarak's earlier statement that he would stay until the September election to lead the "transition", whatever that is.

The people in the streets have already rejected this.

[JuniperLea]

23. Bull

Quit spreading RW talking points. Obama called for a transitional leadership that would lead to elections down the road.

[tabatha]

25. Please provide the words

that indicate that he is 'OK with Mubarak leading the "transition"'

That is complete conjecture.

[11 Bravo]

37. Is it comfortable up there in the cheap seats?

[Bragi]

7. Tell that to the protesters being beaten up by Mubarak's thugs

Obama had a choice, and he chose not to back the demand of the protesters that Mubarak leave now, not nine months from now. He therefore bears some responsibility for the violence being inflicted on the protesters today by Mubarak's thugs.

I hope Obama makes a statement soon, and due to the violence, is explicit: Mubarak must go now, not nine months from now.

[golddigger]

10. +1

[L. Coyote]

9. Uniformed Security Forces were seen leading the assault on the peaceful protesters.

[gateley]

13. Why does everyone think some Magical Statement by Obama will change the

situation? Regardless of what he says or does Mubarak will do what he wants to anyway. I don't know what people are expecting him to do. I wish his statement had been worded more strongly, but Mubarak knows EXACTLY how Obama feels, and from what I've read, Obama made it abundantly clear what he expects from Mubarak, first with the message our envoy delivered, and especially in the phone call after Mubarak's speech.

[Bragi]

15. If he says he backs the protesters demands, it's over

If Obama says explicitly that he backs the demand that Mubarak leave now -- not nine months from now -- then I believe the victory of the popular uprising will be clear, and Mubarak will be gone within 24 hours.

[gateley]

19. Well you'd better send Obama your crystal ball if that's what you can predict

would happen.

He's been standing behind the protesters demands, he's been saying they have a right to the government they want and that Mubarak needs to leave and begin the transition NOW. I heard behind the scenes he was much more direct.

I'd bet money what he has said privately to Mubarak is MUCH more directed than that - I bet he's furious.

Why would Mubarak care what Obama says publicly? He's not going to leave until he packs his bags with money and hightails it out of there or he's assassinated.

I think you're being unrealistic. If it were that simple and uncomplicated, Obama would surely do it.

[blondeatlast]

36. to hell with Hillary; I nominate you for Secretary of State. Get 'er done!

:eyes:

[Javaman]

16. Try reading the tweets coming out of Cairo. The Egyptian people are pissed

at Obama and his not being firm enough against mubarak.

If he doesn't make a forceful statement supporting the protesters, it won't bode very well for us.

[Bragi]

18. Quite so.

Obama is now seen by the protesters as not backing their demands, and being hypocritically pro-Mubarak. I agree with them, and hope Obama changes his position today.

If he backs the demand that Mubarak leave now, Mubarak will be gone within 24 hours, and peaceful celebrations will replace the violence now going on.

[gateley]

22. I think you guys are being too simplistic. I, too, wish Obama would come out

and say get the fuck out, but what? An 'or else'? Or else what? He can't DO anything.

I don't understand why you think something Obama says will magically change Mubarak's approach. Mubarak obviously doesn't care what Obama thinks, or what the world thinks.

I have a question -- So let's say Obama comes out this afternoon and says "Mubarak must go - these people want their country back - and I stand with the people." And then Mubarak does nothing except send in more thugs to suppress the people.

What then?

[bdamomma]

26. stopping funds to Egypt may do something

[gateley]

39. Well you have an excellent point. That's the only way to get someone to acquiesce - money.

Okay, I agree that would work.

And with what's going on now, even though I've been (I think) realistic about what another world leader can do and thought it was best that Obama didn't sound like a dictator himself by making threats, I do think now is the time.

THAT would work. A mere statement by Obama wouldn't, IMO.

I wonder what's going on behind closed doors in the WHO right now. As I said somewhere :7, I bet Obama and others are FURIOUS and sickened by the turn of events.

Edit: Embarrassing spelling error.

[Bragi]

29. Then the army will make it clear Mubarak has 24-hours to leave

[jeff47]

31. Really? I didn't know the Egyptian army was under the command of the US Pres. (nt)

[Bragi]

34. They depend on U.S military "aid". Any other questions? /nt

[jeff47]

35. Withholding that might get them to do something in a year or so.

But I thought you'd have preferred a faster timetable.

[gateley]

40. YOUR army, yeah, but who's going to give the orders to THIS army? They're saying

they're just standing by.

Maybe it's in the works, that the army bigwigs are figuring out what to do. I sure hope so.

[gateley]

20. Again, I'm of the thought that what Obama says has no bearing on Mubarak's decision -

he's going to keep blowing him off.

I've heard -- as have you -- that behind the scenes Obama has been VERY direct. Obviously Mubarak doesn't give a shit what Obama wants or what the world thinks.

This is a really tough situation for Obama and it's unfortunate that everyone is looking to him to solve this problem. He's the President of the United States, not the Boss of the World (that was Cheney and Rumsfeld).

That being said, I can't tell you how much this upsets and saddens me - I honestly feel sick to my stomach. I just don't think Obama himself can do much more. I can understand the protesters feeling that way -- they're looking for help, but I think no matter what Obama says, it won't make a difference in the ultimate outcome.

[bdamomma]

28. it makes me sick too.

these clashes did not happen 8 days ago or even yesterday, these are Mubarak's goons who are out there. There were over 2 million people in that square yesterday did we hear anything about unrest or it being political??? this is disgusting just because you voice your opinion against your government they call the dictator's goons out. More oppression of the people.

[gateley]

38. What especially leaves me gobsmacked is the half-assed concession speech by

Mubarak, meanwhile his thugs were amassing ready to attack. He had no intention even for a fucking second to change one fucking thing! :grr:

I wish Contessa and others would STOP referring to them as "Mubarak supporters".

I fear the thugs will be able to quell the masses. This is just heartbreaking - I almost feel as though I'm watching it take place in my home country because I so fell in love with the Egyptian people during their peaceful protests. :cry:

[bdamomma]

41. those protestors should all be held in high esteem

yesterday they all felt as one, today division again, and a man who will not step down pitting people against each other. Power is a bitch isn't it? oppression of people who want a better life for themselves what is the crime in it? or is it, again, a Class war?

I stand in solidarity with the Egyptian people, Mubarak's speech yesterday was lame.

[gateley]

43. Believe me, I'm humbled by their actions. I think they're heroes. I would be honored

to visit their country some day and make their acquaintance and tell them how deeply impressed and touched the American people were by their bravery and determination.

IMO, Mubarak's speech was worse than lame - in was an arrogant statement that he would continue to be in charge and do what he wanted when he wanted. I loved the speaking in third person portion. :eyes: I was screaming WHAT? WHAT? when I was watching it.

[Javaman]

44. It has nothing to due with mubarak, it has everything to do with supporting the protesters..

there are hundreds of tweets coming out of Egypt from the protesters that are pissed off at Obama not taking a firm stand in support of the protesters.

That is the point. mubarak is done, it's just a matter of time before he's out, but there will be some one new aka one of the protesters, that will take his place. If Obama doesn't make an overt show of support, it won't be good for us.

[tavalon]

21. I want our government to do the right thing but if they can't manage that,

then I want my government to stay the fuck out of it. Let the Egyptians handle their revolution without us fucking it up for them. Ask the Iraqis how our Democracy spreading thing worked. We could ask Afghanistan as well and heck, I think even Vietnam might have a few choice words about our democracy spreading ability.

[snooper2]

24. What fucking part of "NOW" are people here to dense to comprehend?

"Now, it is not the role of any other country to determine Egypt’s leaders. Only the Egyptian people can do that. What is clear -- and what I indicated tonight to President Mubarak -- is my belief that an orderly transition must be meaningful, it must be peaceful, and it must begin now."

[jeff47]

30. Hey now! Stop bringing reality into our whinefest here!

Clearly, Obama should have personally traveled to Egypt and dragged Mubarak out of the country. The guy's 82, Obama can clearly take him.

By Obama saying that the transition must begin "Now" when Mubarak wants to wait a year clearly indicates that Obama supports Mubarak....somehow. I'll get back to you on how that works.

[Bragi]

32. That is exactly what Mubarak claimed he would do

Mubarak said HE will head up the "transition" beginning "now" and stay on until after the September elections.

That's what Obama apparently agreed to, despite the demands of the proetsters, who want Mubarak gone "NOW" which does not mean "nine months from now."

[snooper2]

33. you are not being honest here..

I watched the speech, his body language, and even all the analysts afterwards agreed..

When he said now, he meant not a lame duck session for 8 months, he meant NOW

[bdamomma]

27. read this

someone else posted this on another thread, tells you what is going on out there.

http://www.blogslut.com/blogslut/

[cbdo2007]

42. why did the Egyptians start a Revolution if they need Obama to finish it for them??

[blondeatlast]

45. Another post I'd happily recommend if I could. Concise and brilliant. nt

[cbdo2007]

46. Thanks!

:hi: