I just want to thank Rick Perry and all Texas Republicans for the rolling blackouts today.

[MilesColtrane]

16 degrees here and Texas power companies have been ordered to begin rotating power outages.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/02/01/2815725/dfw-stopped-in-its-tracks-as-storm.html

That utility deregulation is really working out for us all, isn't it?

[onehandle]

1. Centralized power is Socialism. Build your own power plant, hippie! nt

[SpiralHawk]

47. "Yeah, pull yourself up by your own coal-fired plant. Sneer." - RepubliCons

[TBF]

2. Well it's not like they're going to turn off the power at the Cowboys stadium ...

the Superbowl is big money.

We're having the outages down here in South Houston too. Initial one was an hour, since then we've had a couple that were 15 minutes each.

[ScreamingMeemie]

6. I hope not! I wouldn't want Aaron Rodgers to freeze!

Go, Pack, GO!

[TBF]

8. Aaron's fine - they are practicing indoors at Highland Park today -

I know, I'm a Packer fan too .... just explaining why roll-outs. Cover story is that they need the power for the hospitals and nursing homes ...

[ScreamingMeemie]

10. I know...I'm kidding.

Another interesting tidbit about Highland Park. It's Matthew Stafford's (Detroit Lions) high school. He took them to the championships. 50 years after Bobby Layne (another Lion great) took the same school to the championships. Detroit (my son the Lions fan included) is hoping for a repeat, because Layne was the last QB to win an NFL championship for Detroit. Yeah...I'm a bit of a football freak. I had to be, to talk to my dad on Packer Sundays growing up.

[TBF]

11. Yup, same here. I live in Houston now -

but I was born in Ripon, Wisconsin :)

How 'bout that Clay Matthews?

[ScreamingMeemie]

15. A great addition!

So much confidence! We go on Sundays during the regular season to Fox and Hound on 249 near Willowbrook to watch the games. Maybe we can meet up sometime. The Cheddarheadpack has a bar out near Conroe but it's too far.

Go Pack, GO!

[TBF]

18. That would be fun! nt

[TheMightyFavog]

58. Ahhh, yes but the cold is our friend....

Winter weather is to the Packers as Winter Weather was to the Russians... Our greatest ally.

[ScreamingMeemie]

59. 'cept Aaron gets to wear his favorite shoes when he plays indoors.

:) All is well.

[SidDithers]

3. Are Texans overtaxing the power grid with electric heaters?...

why would you have rolling blackouts?

Sid

[TBF]

4. It's not that cold down here. 25 and sunny in Houston with very little wind -

but I guess it's colder up north.

[mwdem]

It's in the teens today. and windy.

I didn't realize Texas has it's own, personal power grid until today!

[KamaAina]

14. Same reason California had them under Ahh-nuld

naked corporate greed. :grr:

[hughee99]

52. Didn't the Governator get his job in part

because of the rolling blackouts under Davis? Maybe this is an opportunity to get a Dem Governor in Texas.

[arbusto_baboso]

56. Deregulation started before Gray Davis ever took office.

And even then, he tried to get the Federal Government to intervene to keep out of state energy companies from gouging Cali. Since Bush was then in the White House, Davis' efforts were laughed off.

[hughee99]

57. Yes, but while Davis wasn't at fault,

it still presented an opportunity for a repuke.

[MilesColtrane]

16. For some reason, there are a lot of homes with electric furnaces in Texas.

This is especially true of houses built during the 80s.

[gkhouston]

25. Yeah, and all of them would also have electric air conditioners, and so would

the houses with gas furnaces. I very much doubt that the load now is higher than in August. I'm think the power companies have sold the power somewhere else for more money.

[Edweird]

63. Well, you're wrong. Electric heat sucks up WAY more power than A/C.

[csziggy]

60. If it is like Florida they have heat pumps

Which are pretty efficient for air cooling and when the temperatures are above about 35-40. But when it gets very cold, the heat pump cannot produce much heat so most of that type system relies on supplemental heat strips to bring the temperature up. Those are not at all efficient. The only saving grace is that many years places like Florida and Texas seldom need to have those heat strips come into use at all. A more efficient way to be comfortable in a real cold snap is to use space heaters in only the essential rooms and keep the whole house temperatures lower.

[Liberal In Texas]

20. ONCOR (power grid provider) says that there were some power plants that failed.

The spokesperson didn't say why, though.

[wryter2000]

5. OMG

And they told us in CA in 2001 (when Enron Fed us over) they hoped we'd freeze in the dark. Chickens coming home to roost?

Stay warm. :(

[pacalo]

31. Was thinking the same thought.

[mrdmk]

7. Welcome to California, circa 2001 and having the Texas companies

stick it to us, power wise. From personal experience, this is a dangerous game politicians and corporations are playing in Texas. It creates severe economic in stability in the area and Texas is a big area...

[TroglodyteScholar]

9. I know that *I*...

I know that *I* wouldn't even BEGIN to consider investing any of my money in a state (in- or outside of the US) that doesn't have reliable access to the grid. Why take unnecessary risks like that?

Nothing personal, Texas...just good business.

[Jack Rabbit]

12. Enron is alive and well in Texas, I see.

/s/
A Californian

[LiberalFighter]

13. They would had been better off having the Super Bowl in Green Bay

[ScreamingMeemie]

17. They ran a graphic on the NFL Network, and it's warmer in both

Green Bay and Pittsburgh. How 'bout that?

[LiberalFighter]

37. I live in NE Indiana and it was colder there than in southern Wisconsin

when I called my mom last week.

[rainbow4321]

22. Oh no worries...ALL the NFL functions/activities are exempt from blackouts

Per the news. It's just us peons who live here who are getting the rolling blackouts. Officials running the "NFL Experience" function have asked to be exempt and the request was granted.

[Edweird]

19. What does Rick Perry have to do with this? You want to help stop it? Turn off your electric heat.

That's what's causing this.

[KansasVoter]

21. LOL.....yes, deregulation is great.

[toddwv]

23. It's Obama's fault somehow.

We might have to wait until someone is "brave" enough to step forward and explain why, but you know it is.

[MilesColtrane]

26. Do some reading on the Texas Public Utilities Commission (Rick Perry appointees).

The Electric Reliability Council of Texas which ordered the blackouts is made up of mostly power company execs and is overseen by the PUC.

Rick Perry was the Lieutenant Governor of Texas (in charge of the Texas Senate) when Senate Bill 7 was passed in 1999.

Perry has had a huge influence in the current shape and abilities of the of power delivery system in Texas.

Some light Googling would really prevent you from making embarrassing posts in the future.

[Edweird]

50. LOL

You're talking about my trade. 'Keeping the lights on' is my job; days, nights, weekends and holidays; rain or shine.

I've forgotten more about power distribution than you will ever know. So take your condescension and stuff it.

You *DO* realize that utilities are fined - by the feds - for outages, don't you?

Your power system isn't designed for 'worst case scenario' - no one could afford electricity. It's designed for typical loads with a cushion for atypical circumstances. Here's a little experiment for you: Go to 'Big Lots' and buy up all their $5.00 hair dryers (enough for every outlet in your house). Now, plug 'em all in and run 'em all at once. Your breakers will blow (you hope - otherwise the fire dept will be coming). Now who is at fault for your breakers blowing?

You want 'rolling blackouts' over the alternative which is blown fuses and downed lines. It's good for me if that happens - I get to see Texas and make GOOD money doing it. But your power will be out for a while. So take your 15 minute outage and curse the extreme weather that is causing your friends and neighbors to place an unusually heavy strain on the system.

[jtuck004]

64. Yup. Electric heat uses more power, is inefficient compared to gas

and homes are poorly insuated.

It's like we designed a system that could get you overtime.

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/howmuch.html

You are correct that it would be too expensive to build a heavier system, especially when the real answer is to bury all these homes in the dirt. That would do wonders for the insulating value.

For those that aren't from the area, natural gas was plentiful so floor furnaces were (and still are) fairly common, later replaced by central heat, many times as part of a central air unit.

But then developers realized they could make tons of money selling (relatively) poorly-insulated homes and apartments, and avoid all that nasty expense for gas by just running some wires around the neighborhood and using strip heaters, or even forced air electric heat. Expensive as hell, and not very efficient.

Air conditioning has its own problems in the summer. Many units are undersized (easier to get a bid if your price is a couple hundred less). But then the AC units run 24x7 for months. And the hotter it gets, the more blackouts you see.

But the real problem is not the electric power, (well, the deregulation is part of it). The real problem is that the people who built the homes have zero interest in the long-term outcome. In other words, just like Edweird said, its how it is used.

[Horse with no Name]

40. Don't have to bother

The electric company is turning it off for us. :eyes:

[eilen]

46. It's someone's electric heat in their house

causing traffic lights and elevators to lose power.....

What a dumb post.

[Edweird]

61. It's not 'someones' - it's everyone's at once that's causing it.

[Edweird]

65. Oh and BTW, I'm a licensed, trained professional lineman.

I've had years of formal training as well as on-the-job training with over 10 years experience in this and related fields. What are your qualifications? Where, other than right out of your ass, do you get the authority to determine that my post was 'dumb'? One of us is so dumb they don't know how dumb they are and one of is a professional in he field. I know which one I am.

[Egalitariat]

24. What's the solution? Have consumers pay for the power companies to invest in capacity that they

only need once or twice a decade?

[MilesColtrane]

28. We're already paying for that capacity.

That money is going into the pockets of power generating companies and retail electric providers.

[Horse with no Name]

39. You embarrassed yourself in my post too

Here you go...

http://www.businesspundit.com/texas-electricity-deregulation/

>>>snip

Texas had some of the cheapest power rates in the country when it zapped most of the state’s electric regulations six years ago, convinced that rollicking competition would drive prices even lower.

This summer, electricity there is some of the nation’s priciest.

Power costs are rising in the rest of the U.S., but everything is bigger in Texas: On a hot day in May, wholesale prices rose briefly to more than $4 a kilowatt hour — about 40 times the national average.

Sorry--I meant to post this under Edweird's post.

[Edweird]

66. This isn't related to the price of electricity - why is that so hard to understand?

This is about the physical capacity of the system - it's being overloaded with demand from high current draw electric heat. This is what I do for a living - I'm not the least bit embarrassed. I know my trade and I know it well. One of us is talking out of our ass and it isn't me.

[Capnjack]

27. EPA Standards

Actually, its due to EPA standards on air quality that don't allow extra generators to be run.
Has nothing to due with deregulation.

[MilesColtrane]

29. TXU just assumed that it could continue to build coal power plants and had no plan...

to replace them when they were shot down.

Real regulation and planning by the PUC could have averted the obvious coming showdown between power generating companies and people who want to breathe clean air.

Instead, Rick Perry got personally involved in ram-rodding those dirty coal plants, fast-tracking the permits and declaring "we're not going to let these bureaucrats jerk us around."

[Capnjack]

30. So then what's the alternative?

If the EPA states we can't run extra generators due to air quality standards then
what else are we to do?

[MilesColtrane]

32. They build natural gas, wind, and hydro plants.

[Capnjack]

33. We're limited

We're limited on wind due to not having consistent winds until you get west of I-35.
The rest are limited to people not wanting them in their on back yard so to speak.
If there were a wind farm locally where I live, it wouldn't even be running right now
due to inconsistent winds.

[MilesColtrane]

34. Renewables are a small part of the power generated now, but...

there is a good amount of potential energy available to be exploited.

Wind resource areas in the Texas Panhandle, along the Gulf Coast south of Galveston, and in the mountain passes and ridgetops of the Trans-Pecos offer Texas some of the greatest wind power potential in the United States.

Solar power potential is also among the highest in the Nation, with high levels of direct solar radiation suitable to support large-scale solar power plants concentrated in West Texas.

Due to its large agricultural and forestry sectors, Texas has an abundance of biomass energy resources.

Although Texas is not known as a major hydroelectric power State, substantial untapped potential exists in several river basins, including the Colorado River of Texas and the Lower Red.

http://ftp.eia.doe.gov/state/state_energy_profiles.cfm?sid=TX



Gas plants supply about half of the power generated here. That should be expanded

But, the power companies are going to try to build coal plants every time, because they are cheaper to operate. (more profit)

It is stated mission of the Public Utility Commission to protect customers and promote a high quality infrastructure. I think power plants that generate less pollution aptly fit the definition of high quality.

[tabasco]

45. Stop voting for idiots would be my suggestion.

Somehow, I don't think you will.

[Riftaxe]

35. OMG power outs in a snowstorm

welcome to reality! :rofl:

Hate to break the bad news to you, but in other parts of the country, during very bad weather it is possible to lose power for days, not just an hour here or there.

[ScreamingMeemie]

36. You're talking to people who lost power for weeks after Hurricane Ike.

:eyes:

[Horse with no Name]

41. These are two very different issues

and for different reasons.
But you know that...

[MilesColtrane]

42. Snow isn't the problem, Chief.

There wasn't enough snow to force statewide rolling blackouts.

[Kingofalldems]

48. Wow, way to change the subject-

It's about how deregulation has been detrimental to the customers. What is your position on this?

[Rex]

38. Fuck Perry, he should be IN JAIL for lying about our state debt.

Why can't Texas go legit and stop electing criminals? Fucking SIGH.

[MilesColtrane]

43. I couldn't agree more.

He is scum of the lowest order.

[cutlassmama]

44. +1

[Ilsa]

49. One of our hospitals was blacked out. Repeatedly. Thank goodness for batteries and generators. nt

[Abq_Sarah]

51. I don't get that

Critical infrastructure is supposed to be exempt from rolling blackouts whenever possible yet they shut down hospitals and compression stations for natural gas which has caused entire swaths of New Mexico to lose natural gas service indefinitely during a period of double digit below zero temps.

[Ilsa]

53. My hope is that the hospital had all equipment with

Battery power (IV infusers, respirators, etc) fully charged and no surgeries scheduled. Hospitals are supposed to be exempt from rolling blackouts. It's too dangerous.

[w8liftinglady]

54. the hospital with the highest acuity in Dallas - Parkland.

where all severe trauma,burn,infectious diseases... oh,yeah and all the uninsured in a 5 county area go for care.
Let them eat cake,and snuggle up in fur if the power is out.(The opinion of the uninformed here).

[Ilsa]

55. I was an evening volunteer (after work) in one of Parkland's 4 ERs years ago.

It's an amazing place. Inspired me to become a RN.

I can't begin to imagine how difficult it could be to coordinate patient care in prep of a storm like this.
I'm sure the Powers That Be would just feel horrible if anything happened to anyone at the county hospital during a storm like this. :sarcasm:

[Edweird]

62. God Damn Rick Perry and his De Regulated sea turtles!

Meanwhile, in South Texas, marine biologists and volunteers worked urgently to try to save hundreds of sea turtles left stunned by the frigid conditions along the beaches of South Padre Island and Boca Chica, near the mouth of the Rio Grande.

Rescuers had found 575 sea turtles in hypothermic shock because of the weather, said Kat Lillie of Sea Turtle Inc. That was nearly double the record set in the 1980s, she said. Twenty died, however, and the toll was expected to rise, said Jeff George, a curator with the nonprofit turtle rescue group.

Most of the inert turtles were found on the beach, but some were rescued from the cold surf, Lillie said.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/7415950.html

The 72 hours of sub-freezing temperatures in El Paso is unique in recent history, Wilson said.

"This has impacted everything. This community was not built for sustained sub-freezing temperatures,"