I've had an abortion and it wasn't on a whim...

[cynatnite]

It took careful thought and deliberation. I wanted to make sure that this was a decision I could live with. That's what I came down to for me. What could I live with.

I didn't make it on a whim as if I was tossing a pair of shoes.

These fucking lawmakers don't have a clue what women go through when we make these decisions. :grr:

[bobbolink]

1. {{{{{{{{{ }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

[movonne]

7. what does that mean???

[annabanana]

40. It's lots of hugs. . .n/t

[aikoaiko]

29. whoops wrong spot

[bananas]

2. (((((((((())))))))))

[movonne]

9. and what does that mean???

[Brickbat]

10. Those are Internet hugs.

[snooper2]

19. in 100 years the English language will be dead....

:) - ((())) %^: L :)-- ) 4 U!

[ladywnch]

26. or at least completely unrecognizable. n/t

[gtar100]

79. The Chinese have pictographs... we'll have emoticons.

Don't worry it'll evolve. :)

[ladywnch]

104. you're probably right. if you watch Star Trek episodes you'll see

the consoles have, for lack of a better description, hieroglyphics not 'letters'

[MedicalAdmin]

27. No it won't be dead, but it will be different.

It is a living language dude, so 23 skidoo mate, top o' the morning to you and well met olde mastyr.

[AlbertCat]

66. so 23 skidoo mate, top o' the morning to you and well met olde mastyr.

Not to mention:

Whan that Aprill, with his shoures soote
The droghte of March hath perced to the roote


Or

Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,







Sumer is icumen in,
Lhude sing cuccu! ...y'all!

[proReality]

87. Apparently it's the New Common Language. n/t

[hlthe2b]

3. No.. they absolutely do not..nor do they care.

Woman are the equivalent of political "chattel" to these misogynists who would exploit women's basic rights, women's privacy, and a women's right to preserve her own life, health and well-being-- to further their own shallow objectives. I can only imagine how painful it must be for you to hear the rhetoric. I can only pray that young women are getting that message and will begin to realize they must fight, just as we and our mothers did to preserve our rights and dignity.

[Maraya1969]

67. Next time someone says something tell them that all souls come to earth

If they don't come in one particular womb they are put in another until they are birthed.
And tell them that women have many more miscarriages than they think. Often times it is just a late or heavy period.

[notadmblnd]

86. you are so right.

I read once that a large percentage of pregnancies are spontaneously aborted before a woman even knows she is pregnant.

I used the term spontaneously aborted because that is the term the Dr used when I miscarried. I knew I was pregnant though.

[xchrom]

4. it's your body and a medical personal decision.

women should get to actually own their bodies.

[movonne]

6. we own nothing...the gov can take it away anytime...

[defendandprotect]

14. As long as we have patriarchy and complacency about government/politics ... true!

[Mojeoux]

39. Surprise to the Patriarchy, God Loves Women as Much as Men!

And Gay people as much as Straight, etc. etc. etc.

[niyad]

70. SHE certainly does.

[Brickbat]

5. Even worse, some of them DO know what women go through -- their wives, daughters and girlfriends

have abortions just like the rest of us. The problem is, they don't give a shit. They know that abortion is something they can trot out year after year, scaring voters into voting for them. They just throw shit at the wall to see what sticks -- especially the way the Democrats have been lying down all over the place.

[defendandprotect]

15. It does depend a great deal on Dems NOT responding ... great point .. !!

Not only are they not responding we have a "pro-life" group in Dem Party now!!

[TBF]

8. If the wealthy didn't have abortion to use as a divisive tool they'd have to invent it.

It's not like wealthy women don't have abortions - and if they are outlawed here they can and will travel elsewhere to get them.

[Iris]

11. Or course you didn't. And anyone who says you did, well, I'll kick their ass!

if I ever have the misfortune of being in the same room with such an asshole.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

12. My dear cynatnite...

My heart goes out to you...

I know it was tough.

I wish you peace always...

:hug:


And those damn lawmakers can all go to hell.:grr:

[ThatsMyBarack]

99. What California Peggy said!

She's got a way with words....

[DeSwiss]

13. K&R

- It ain't about babies, it's about power....

[TalkingDog]

16. You mean you didn't go to the abortion spa and make a day of it?

What with the additional low cost massage and mani/pedi package, I'd have an abortion every week if I could.

(sarcasm thingy)

[defendandprotect]

17. Everyone has the right to make their own choice ... period!

[SheilaT]

18. I generally point out that someone who is opposed to

abortion shouldn't have one. Everyone else can make their own decisions about what to do or not do.

And I am totally outraged at the idea that women have abortions as casually as some think they do.

[janet118]

44. It amazes me how many radically anti-choice activists are men . . .

For them, it's not about abortion, it's about denying women the freedom to make their own decisions. Men cannot have abortions. Those extremists who advocate to ban abortions want to force each woman to carry every pregnancy to term, no matter what her circumstances or the consequences to her health, her work, her family and her psychological well-being. It is no less than a form of punishment and control. Men would never force this penalty on other men.

If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament. ~Florynce R. Kennedy, 1973

Seventy-seven percent of anti-abortion leaders are men. 100% of them will never be pregnant. ~Planned Parenthood advertisement

The states are not free, under the guise of protecting maternal health or potential life, to intimidate women into continuing pregnancies. ~Justice Harry A. Blackmun, Roe v. Wade, 22 January 1973

[blueamy66]

88. Me too.

This may not be a popular post with the men, but....

It pisses me off to no end to see 60+ year old men picketing abortion clinics. Sometimes I just wanna turn the wheel of my car and run them down. Well, not really, but you know what I mean.

Jesus Christ, you never could get pregnant, never will get pregnant.....GO DO SOMETHING MORE PRODUCTIVE, YOU ASSWIPES.

Okay, rant over.

:-)

[jtown1123]

100. I love this comment and feel the same way.

[blueamy66]

111. I've gotten pretty "mouthy" in my "old" age

and may just turn into a parking lot one day and let them know how I feel.

Really.

[onager]

108. This male near-geezer agrees with you.

Your post is pretty popular with me. Hell, I feel like playing steel bull and making them the matadors myself.

I'm in Los Angeles, so there's not much opportunity. Some years ago, Operation Rescue targeted L.A. and announced mass protests, but it was a big flop. When they tried to block the streets in front of Planned Parenthoods etc., the LAPD immediately and unceremoniously arrested them. It was easy for me to find the local P.P. and laugh at them, since that's where I got my vasectomy. :rofl:

We do have that odious fake "pregnancy counseling" outfit, run by fundies. I sometimes hear them bloviating on the local Xian hate radio station - KKLA, which really needs one more "K" in its call sign. But they usually announce their "events" on that station, so everybody in the area knows what they're up to.

And why is a male near-geezer so interested in this topic? Mainly because I don't think a woman's medical care is anybody's business but hers. Not too many years ago that would have made me a "conservative," I guess.

But also because I grew up in the rural South, and a female relative who had a big influence on my life nearly died from an illegal abortion. Ironically, she went on to have 2 kids who are raging anti-abortion Fundie kooks now. (I'm a raging atheist kook myself.) I'm not even sure if they know that about their mother - but everybody else in the family sure does.

That being the South, she could only find one doctor to save her life when she was bleeding to death. The relative who told me the story referred to him as "that n_______ doctor."

[blueamy66]

110. Liked your reply.

KKK huh? :-)

[immoderate]

You had sex. You must be punished.

Nothing else matters. It's not about people, or children. Sex is a sin and we have that on good authority.


--imm

[uppityperson]

20. I've helped many women get abortions and even for the few who used it as

their primary form of birth control, it wasn't on a whim. It is expensive. It is quite uncomfortable. You can't have sex for a good month to 6 weeks afterward. There can be complications, severe ones.

Even the very few who didn't use other contraception, even for them it wasn't on a whim but serious thought went into it.

For the rest, it also too careful thought and deliberation. For the 50 yr old woman, for the 15 yr old young woman, for everyone in between, it took careful thought and they ALL knew what they were doing and why. From the woman who miscarried 1 of her twins and was too upset to continue and wait for the other to go, to the woman who decided this was better than ruining her marriage and breaking up the family (yes, they went for counseling), to the woman who was sooooooooo self centered as to want to not bring a child into her world where her father raped her, to the woman who was sooooooooooooo self centered to not want to take time out of her education to deal with having a child and stay on welfare, they ALL gave a lot of thought into what they were doing and came up with the same answer. Not now.

To mandate the ultrasound and "hear the heartbeat" is asinine and insulting to all those women. They have no clue what these women went through making this decision.

[cynatnite]

22. Thank you!

You said it much better than I did.

[uppityperson]

24. They'd be better off putting their energies into affordable accessible day care

near people's work that paid the providers decent AND health care for all (affordable and accessible) to help people who do have kids than to mandate insulting things like this. But nooooo, that would be too difficult and rewarding those sluts who had sex and had children. Easier to punish those sluts who have sex. They made their beds, they need to lie in it. :sarcasm:

Thank you for sharing your story. We need to be talking about things like this, sharing stories. There are many situations, many ways and reasons for women to make this decision. Some easier, some more difficult, but all the women put thought into it.

[kath]

76. Wow. Great post.

[Enthusiast]

90. 'Insulting to women' is what they do.

No question.

[xxqqqzme]

109. to the 43 year old,

pre-menopausal woman whose birth control failed. Even then, it was a difficult decision. An appointment/exam w/ an ob/gyn confirmed it. After the exam, he said my decision was sound because of the transition my body was beginning.

The very idea that some rabid rong wing legislator should impose HIS narrow view on my health decision is beyond the pale for me. There are only two persons in an exam room, the patient and the doctor. There is no room for a third.

[Evoman]

21. I don't care. Hard deliberation, soul searching indecision or a casual whim.

Woman's body, woman's choice. I don't care what the circumstances are, what the women feels about abortion, or how hard she has to think to make the decision...once she does, she gets to do whatever the fuck she wants.

And any old, fucking asshole men who say otherwise should be post-birth aborted.

[femrap]

32. 'post-birth

aborted'....:evilgrin: :toast: :thumbsup: :fistbump: :yourock: :woohoo: :applause: :rofl:

The next time I run into some turd yammering about anti-choice, I'm going to approach him/her and say, 'God has told me to tell you that you are indeed in need of a post-birth abortion. I will pray for your oppressing soul.'

[pitohui]

54. evoman you have it right

why don't people stop and think, HEY, if a woman has an abortion for convenience, maybe she shouldn't be put in charge of an innocent baby because she's not in a psychological space to care for a baby

by definition, the "abortion for convenience" woman (if such woman has ever existed) is a woman who couldn't give a shit about a baby...so we're going to FORCE her to take on an innocent baby?

the folks who make these rules must really hate not just women but also babies...or they just assume that neither women nor babies have feelings...

[stellanoir]

57. I've heard the proponents of capital punishment

who are pro life described as "retroactive abortionists."

Same concept you've got. I just thought the phrase I heard was a great zinger.

[niyad]

71. my phrase for such people is, "you are a walking ad for retroactive contraception"

but I found out the words are too big. think I will start using yours.

[Enthusiast]

91. Plus one! nt

[lapislzi]

94. +1

I don't give a rat's ass why anybody chooses to undergo a legal medical procedure. It's none of my business.

And I'll tell you this: if I became pregnant tomorrow, I would immediately and without a moment's hesitation, book an abortion. My reasons for doing so would be none of anyone's concern.

[Bigmack]

23. Fundies and "pro-lifers" don't get abortions....

... they just have D & Cs to clear up a messy uterus.

They don't take birth-control pills to prevent pregnancy... they just take them to regulate their periods.

Seriously... I have a close family member who had a very late-term abortion of a severely deformed fetus... long, ugly story. The couple suffered more than human beings should have to.

I will take the hide off anybody who knocks abortion in my presence... early, late, whim, necessity.... whatever.

[madokie]

25. All they want to do with that trash talk of theirs is keep their base happy

cause those people who support them need reassurances that they're still needed other wise they wouldn't be pukes to start with.

I'm a guy and I've been involved in a decision as to abort or not and I can agree with what you say, its not something that is taken lightly. Oh I'm sure there is a few who have no conscience and those will get an abortion when and if they need no matter. Only thing is in might be by their boyfriend using a coat hanger or something of that sort. Now I don't know if that ever takes place or not, the coat hanger part but you get my drift. I hope.

[Dark]

28. I've never understood the argument that abortion is this painful, mentally damaging process that

women do flippantly on the fly several times a year because they're too busy with their life.

[bobbolink]

31. Its related to the contention that people choose to be gay, and choose to be homeless

because they are so enthusiastic about experiencing suffering.

[aikoaiko]

30. One of my ex-girlfriends had six abortions before we met.

I was shocked. How could a 25 year old have 6 abortions? It must have been because she was thoughtless -- or so I would have thought if I hadn't heard the rest of the story.

But as she told me the story of her life being kicked out of her house at 16, abusing drugs, prostitution, rape, ignorance of reproductive biology, other prescriptions which reduced the effectiveness of birth control pills, etc each one was explainable and not due her not caring. And each abortion was a difficult decision.

[bobbolink]

34. Thank you for a good example of why its not good to make assumptions.

Very well written! :thumbsup:

[femrap]

35. Dudes need

to get the rubbers out and use them. Takes 2. Dudes make the choice of causing an unintended pregnancy.

All I gotta say is Abortion must remain SAFE AND LEGAL. And I have spelled A B O R T I O N in the past as R E L I E F!!!!!!

[aikoaiko]

36. True, but I don't think she was with guys who cared if she lived or died, let alone got pregnant.

In fact, she was left for dead after being raped.

[Dappleganger]

37. And this is why it should always be accessible and safe for everyone.

[femrap]

65. There are a #

of 'Ignoreds' around your comment. I was responding to the Original Post.

But to put the World into perspective....dudes are 95% of the prison population...they don't give a shit about their mothers, wives, sisters, nor daughters.....definitely considered to be 'post-birth abortives.'

[cynatnite]

38. It's never as simple as it sounds...

I'm glad she trusted you with this.

[ck4829]

33. How come we don't ask kids who want to join the military these questions:

Do you ever wonder what it would be like to lose functioning in your arms and legs?

Let's say you accidentally shot a kid, how would that make you feel? What would you say to his family?

Do you think you would still be the same if your face got sheared off in an explosion?

Do you think your significant other would put up with you if you came back with PTSD and violent outbursts? Would you really want them to still be with you?


Why is it that our government and conservatives in our culture want women who know they are making difficult decisions (And sometimes they didn't choose to be in this predicament) to face tougher questions than the people who handle our country's nuclear weapons and are tasked with defending this country (Who are always making this decision by choice)?

[Tsiyu]

41. K & R

They only understand their own motivation

until it happens to their daughter or mistress.

[Fire1]

42. I don't think I'd have told that. n/t

[cynatnite]

43. Why? n/t

[shanti]

53. yeah, why not?

she was brave to post this.

[Le Taz Hot]

85. Why not?

It's legal and there's certainly no shame in it. I've had 2 myself. One when I was 17 (in 1973!!!) and scared as hell. The other when I was 29, going to school, working, and scared as hell. I'm almost 56 now and I look back on those decisions as the best I could have made, both for myself and any children I may have brought into this world and not been able to take care of.

[Faygo Kid]

45. I'm a male. She was pregnant in 1976, at 19. I thought then it was her decision. I think that now

I thought so then, and thought so now. So I was more than happy to get married (loved her), and we had 18 mostly extraordinary years, although we moved on (wistfully to this day, I think). My daughter will be 35 this year, and of course I love her unconditionally. And treasure all the memories (I think I was a pretty good Dad. I hope so).

But we CHOSE birth, dammit. We CHOSE it. What the hell is the matter with the people who would deny that choice, and yet deny even the common decency of a basic floor of protections to THOSE ALREADY BORN?

There is no "whim" when it comes to abortion, or CHOOSING to give birth. It's a decision I cannot make for another. As a male (OK, dude), I would not dare to impose that choice on a woman. That CHOICE.

I will remain pro that choice until the day I die. And I hope to continue to work to do a little something for those already born, by the way.

Thank you, cynatnite, for your post.

[bluevoter4life]

46. For us men, it's pretty nervewrecking too

I had a pregnancy scare with the girl I was seeing a few years ago. I have always been pro-choice and a big supporter of organizations like Planned Parenthood, but never in my wildest dreams ever imagined I would need to enlist their services. The hardest part of the whole ordeal was not knowing. After many days of discussing it, we had decided that if she was pregnant, she was going to go ahead and have the abortion. It was that very moment that I realized this is a decision that women do not take lightly. They don't wake up in the morning and just decide to get an abortion. They lose sleep over their decision, they get stressed out, with very good reason. As much of a wreck as I was, I can't even imagine the mental anguish she was going through, knowing that whatever decision she made, she would have to live with. You are right, these lawmakers don't have a fucking clue the torture women go through leading up to their choice. PP and other similar organizations are truly there to make these decisions easier (a term that I hate to use given the circumstances). They allow patients to get ALL the information, and NEVER force any sort of agenda on them. The whole argument of Planned Parenthood as an abortion mill is BULLSHIT. I've been there, as have millions of other Americans, men and women. As a result of the tremendous efforts of PP, I decided to repay them by lobbying the state legislature on their behalf later that year. To all employees and volunteers of Planned Parenthood, and all supporters of woman's rights, THANK YOU. Without you, I may be telling a very different story.

[cynatnite]

48. The clinic I went to counseled me first...

If this was something that I had any doubts about, they would have urged me to wait. They were very sensitive, knowledgeable, and understanding.

[bluevoter4life]

49. Fortunately for us, it never got to that point

But we went in there to take the pregnancy test, with the full intent of scheduling the procedure as soon as possible. The nurse was very friendly and more than willing to answer any questions we had in a compassionate manner. Like I said, the test came back negative and we left there breathing a huge sigh of relief but it was very comforting to know there are people out there who understand.

[ehrnst]

95. PP don't make the decision easier, they just treat women like an intelligent human beings.

Coercion, manipulation and just plain throwing obstacles in a woman's path is not the opposite of making a decision easier - it's just punishing her for considering her options.

[slackmaster]

47. Rec #70 for first-person account

:hi:

These fucking lawmakers don't have a clue what women go through when we make these decisions.

No, they really have no idea but a lot of bad assumptions.

[Ilsa]

50. I've given money to a facility to help pay for safe, legal abortions for women

that I trust made the decision carefully and thoughtfully, and never on a whim, never over race or gender, or any stupid excuse GOP lawmakers could come up with.

[Honeycombe8]

51. Let me play Devil's Advociate here.

I will say up front that I am pro-choice. I am a woman in my 50's. I remember when it was not legal, so there's that.

But let me add something here that's rarely discussed. People say that it's the woman's choice. And so it is, technically. But I know for a fact that when abortion is legal, some, probably many, young women are coerced into having abortions, when they don't really want them. The boyfriend insists. The parents insist. The boyfriend's parents insist. Even the doctor insists. It's all for her own good. "It's the right thing." You can put this behind you, and no one need ever know; it's no one's business.

A young woman is usually dependent on others, when she's pregnant. If she has no one to help her (a boyfriend, a parent, relatives, a "family way" center), she is forced to get an abortion. That is sometimes the only assistance she will get. And so the decision is made for her, really.

She will never forget. Never. And she may never have children. Never. That may be her only chance to have a child.

This is often not discussed, yet it happens so often.

Don't ask me how I know.

[cynatnite]

55. Well said...

Despite the circumstances I was in, it was still a choice.

You are very right. There are women and girls who feel they have no support and no choice.

Thank You!

[eilen]

69. I agree with you

I know it happens. It happens in other countries where women have limited rights and are regarded as property of their husband too.

It probably happens the other way around--parents insisting on full term birth.

There are just not the social supports in this country sufficient for a young woman without means and familial support-- particularly if the father is unwilling and hostile regarding a pregnancy.

[Honeycombe8]

83. That was really my point. The lack of counseling services for the young women.

That's the one problem I have with pro-choicers. They are anti-counseling for the situation, fearing that it will be a subterfuge for pro-lifers to talk her out of getting an abortion, rather than real counseling for the situation. And some counseling probably would be that.

But I'm not saying that she should be forced to have counseling. It's just that it would be a good idea for YOUNG women, I think. To take them out of the opinions of friends and family, who all have their own interests, after all, and to take her to a conversation with someone who has HER interest at heart.

Thanks for understanding my point.

[uppityperson]

125. EVERY abortion provider I've come in contact with includes counseling.

Yes, some women will be talked into having an abortion as some will be talked out of it. I've found no lack of "abortion services" listed in phone books that are actually anti-choice who want to talk women out of an abortion. Most of them will help, at least until birth.

I know no pro-choicers who are "anti-counseling" but are FOR having legal choices, whether that be the CHOICE of an abortion or the CHOICE of adoption or the CHOICE of keeping the child.

I am sure there are places that do not counsel before having an abortion, probably Gosnell's ilk, but that is very unethical and uncommon in my experience.

[Liberty Belle]

74. Sad and true, but if a woman would be so easily talked into abortion....

She might be the sort who would be talked into "getting rid of" the kids later on if the boyfriend decides they are an inconvenience--like the woman who drowned her own kids to please a boyfriend. So....it's still her choice, and if please her boyfriend is more important to her than having the child, she really wasn't ready to be a good mother.

[Honeycombe8]

82. Hogwash. I'm talking about a young woman who is dependent on others....

Young, unemployed (or employed, about to lose her employment), women are totally dependent on others when pregnant, if she lives in an area that doesn't have an "unwed mothers" center (that's what they used to be called; I don't know if they exist anymore).

When a whole group of people you rely on make a concerted effort to talk you into something, it is a rare occurrence that a young person, particularly a young woman (who is more passive by nature than males), doesn't acquiesce.

You speak like someone who has "never been there." No, it doesn't mean that others are more important. People get abortions because it's not a "human being" yet, right? Right. That's why it's legal. So there's no comparison to having a human being to care for. And acquiescing to others' demands to "do what is right, what is best for all" doesn't mean she cares more for mom and dad than her future human child. It means she's confused (let's not forget raging hormones in pregnant women), and she wonders....is it really best? Am I being unreasonable? What should I do? If I don't do this, where will I go? Where will I live? She won't be able to get employment. It's understandable. If you don't understand it, then you are a cold person. I feel sorry for you.

[uppityperson]

123. "People get abortions because it's not a "human being" yet, right? " Wrong.

people get abortions for a huge number of reasons not because "it's not a human being yet". And no, that is not "why it's legal". It is legal because of the right to privacy and healthcare between a pregnant woman and her doctor.

Of course some will be talked into having an abortion and some will be talked out of having one. This is a reason every abortion provider I've ever come into contact with, and that is many, includes counseling before the abortion. Screening and counseling.

[FourScore]

107. Oh, jeez...REALLY??? Honeycombe8 is clearly talking about a younger, more dependent demographic.

It's a good, and seldom talked about point. You are speaking as if all young, impressionable girls grow up to be women without a heart or brain.

[truthrocks]

81. Wonderful post. Thanks for your honesty.

[Honeycombe8]

84. Thanks for appreciating the brutal honesty.

And a different viewpoint.

A little counseling for YOUNG women, with people who have HER interest at heart, would be a good thing. Older women are more financially independent, usually, and more able to combat being talking into things. At least I am...in my 50's I am so much more able and willing to make choices that are best for ME, as opposed to when I was 18. Things are so different when you're young.

[jtown1123]

101. I see your point. Maybe we should have doctors trained to ask questions

about outside coersions to help these women out?

[lapislzi]

117. A couple of rebuttals

The operative word is "choice." In a perfect world, every woman would be able to make an informed decision about the future of her pregnancy in consultation with her family and doctor without fear of reprisal, remorse, or permanent repercussion.

Well, we live in about as far from a perfect world as it is possible to live.

The legal fact of the matter, unsavory as it may be, is that my daughter, if she is under 18 years of age, is my legal responsibility. I make medical decisions for her because she is not of legal age to do so. Is 18 an arbitrary number? Of course it is, but that's the law. Would I ask her opinion? Not necessarily. She lacks the necessary judgment to reach a sound decision. I've still got a few years to drill these skills into her before I turn her loose on the world.

As legal guardians of our children, we make decisions on their behalf every day, both medical and non-medical. It's a fact. Yes, I'm the mom, and most of the time I know what's best for my child. My daughter understands this.

To be honest with you, although I don't doubt your personal account, I question how often "forced" abortions are a reality, at least in this country. And I don't know of any teenagers who would be happy about being pregnant, or having a pregnant girlfriend.

[pitohui]

52. ok but why can't we just acknowledge that a good decision can be made in a few seconds

i'm not going to pretend i thought and sat and worried and wondered if i was ready to have a child

i knew i wasn't and never would be -- it didn't exactly take any worry and angst to reach a logical conclusion, how long does it REALLY take to figure out 2 plus 2 equal 4

we pander to these "fucking lawmakers" when we pretend that it's OK to have a child UNLESS you have agonized and deliberated

OF COURSE they don't care about us, that goes w.out saying, if lawmakers cared about women's rights, we'd have women's right in the usa constitution instead of a lot of guff about how it doesn't matter than we don't have equal rights in our sainted constitution

stop trying to cater to those who think you are not a real genuine living human being, a woman to the majority of the united states population is nothing more than an incubator for a baby

how do you answer THAT argument? "i thought and considered and did math on the calculator and it was impossible" is not going to impress those (and they are the majority) who do not even consider us on an equal level with a 13 year old boy

i have no answer, that's why i'm asking the question

i realize as a woman i will not ever be an equal citizen in my lifetime, oh, i'm equal when they have their hand out to take my money, but equal rights and opportunities, it is too late for me, even a female president, it will never happen in my lifetime

[cynatnite]

56. I'm not saying it was a bad decision...

Saying it was bad implies regret and I can't find any regrets for this. I would not have the life I have now and I've got a damn good one.

I can't look at it as bad or good. It was a hard decision.

[handmade34]

58. if this was recent...

hugs and be good to yourself... I am old enough to have had to use "alternative" means to abort an unwanted pregnancy. I also have had an abortion legally, as well as beautiful children that I love more than life itself.

I am extremely concerned about the direction in which our collective attitudes are going. I respect all life and I have pondered the issues surrounding abortion at length. I have come to the conclusion that there should be no restriction put upon women concerning their bodies and what they choose to do... I believe there should be no restriction at any point in a woman's pregnancy.

Life and choices about our living it can be difficult... until every homeless person has a home, until every child is free from abuse and hungry, until every person has health care... and even after that, there should be no further discussion about imposing restrictions upon women...

The anti-choice people are delusional and are devoid of true respect for life

[av8rdave]

59. Don't you see? They want to relieve you of the stress of making the decision...by making it for you

Pretty ironic, seeing this is the same bunch that wants government out of our lives!

So sorry you had to wrestle with a decision like that, but I'm glad it was your decision to make. I hope it stays that way.

[av8rdave]

60. Don't you see? They want to relieve you of the stress of making the decision...by making it for you

Pretty ironic, seeing this is the same bunch that wants government out of our lives!

So sorry you had to wrestle with a decision like that, but I'm glad it was your decision to make. I hope it stays that way.

[Odin2005]

61. !!!

:hug:

[laylah]

62. ...

:hug:

[babylonsister]

63. I hear you, cynatnite. No 'whims' involved.nt

[Swampguana]

64. you're right

lawmakers don't know what you go through and they don't have a right to tell you what to do with your own body.

[Puppyjive]

68. Republicans are hypocrits

The United States should not have a problem with children who need to be adopted. The republicans should be taking in all of the children that are not wanted from unplanned pregnancies and rape. I don't see them lining up with their arms open to embrace God's unwanted children. They are a bunch of hypocrits who want the world to have two classes. The rich and the poor.

[niyad]

72. none of them have a clue, and they don't care. women are only broodmares and vessels.

[AuntPatsy]

73. Kicking

[HankyDubs]

75. surely you'd prefer

that some asshole with a bullhorn makes this decision for you.

[Tripod]

77. K & R

[Imagevision]

78. Government should stay out of who you marry and if you decide you wants kids! what say you?

[gtar100]

80. Misogyny is unfortunately coupled with brain damage.

They are fools and unfortunately have been put in a position of power by a short-sighted voter block. They need to be called out on what they are doing. It makes no sense except to their own hate-filled minds.

They can get into these positions of power only because of the overwhelming majority of people who do not vote. We must educate and get our like-minded friends and neighbors to vote come election time.

[Enthusiast]

89. Are you sure you

weren't out just to end a pregnancy for fun? :sarcasm:

I don't mean to be insensitive. I was simply demonstrating the absurdity of the right wing talking points.

[ehrnst]

92. Hugs. I carefully considered mine as well.

I considered whether I had the resources or will to do whatever a full term healthy pregnancy might demand of me. I felt I owed that to any child that I brought into this world - whether I raised it or gave it up for adoption.

I considered the costs to my life of a full term pregnancy and childbirth - financial, spiritual, social, educational and physical. I could no more view childbearing decisions in terms of "convenience" than I could volunteering one of my kidneys.

My considerations were not going to be negated by seeing an ultrasound - even if it was going to make the procedure more expensive, because my decision was made with understanding of fetal development.

My decisions were not going to be changed by someone yelling "It's a baby!!!" because my decision was not based on ignorance that I was preventing a childbirth, or hatred of infants.

My decision was not made flippantly, because I consider childbearing a sacred responsibility, not an obligation someone needs "an excuse to get out of." I value childbearing far more than any of those people standing in my way saying, "It's just nine months then you can give the baby away!"

My decision was my own, and not due to pressure from the man involved, or seeing an ad for an abortion clinic. If I didn't have access to a legal procedure, I would have sought out an illegal one.

Contrary to all the assumptions that Antis make about women who choose not to have a baby, my decision was not based on being manipulated by an evil boyfriend/the abortion 'industry'/feminists, ignorance of biology/fetal development/pregnancy/child rearing, or a dislike of babies/being a sociopath.

You and I made a decision that normal, loving, sane, women have been making for thousands of years, because childbearing MEANS something to women.

(Edited for grammar)

[roody]

93. I did too. I never regretted it.

[jtown1123]

102. We need more women to come out and say this..."I never regretted it." powerful stuff

[Brewman_Jax]

96. More repub hypocrisy

I guess that "personal responsibility" isn't included if they can make a big deal of it for election time.

[barbiegeek]

97. Much Love

[KansDem]

98. I dated a woman once...she was a Republican from a conservative western-Kansas family

Her dad was a lawyer in a small town not too far from Nebraska.

After we had dated awhile she told me that she had had an abortion. We talked about it and, as you described, it wasn't an easy decision.

I haven't seen her for some 30 years but am confident she still thinks about one of the hardest decisions in her life...

[sinkingfeeling]

103. Many of us have had an abortion and all were made with deliberation. Men, especially those in

politics and religion businesses, seem to think we're just too stupid and impulsive to think out what is best in our lives.

[duhneece]

105. After my husband lost both legs in Vietnam, I got pregnant

With much deliberation, I chose an abortion and he agreed.

When my daughter was 16 & asked if I ever felt guilty, I prayed/meditated, saying "God, if I'm supposed to regret my decision or feel guilty, please let me know that now." Not then, not ever have I felt guilty or regretted my decision.

I continue to trust women to make decisions for their own body, for their families.

[BallardWA]

106. Me Too.....

Had one right out of college, late seventies. It was over in minutes and I never looked back. I cannot imagine where I would be today if I had been forced to go through with that pregnancy. I came from a very uptight Italian family, and would probably have been made to keep the child. Families can be as tyrannical as our government....

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cynatnite]

115. It wasn't a child to me...it was a physical condition that would result in a baby...

That's how I've always seen pregnancy.

The circumstances were such that having a baby would have negatively impacted my life and the life of my oldest daughter. The financial impact would have been awful. She was a toddler at the time.

The abortion allowed me to continue making a better life for myself and for my daughter that would not have happened otherwise.

[demigoddess]

113. at the opposite end of the spectrum---My mother never

wanted to have any children at all. Hated the idea strongly, yet had four children because abortion was illegal and birth control apparently hit and miss in those days. We kids paid dearly at times for that.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cynatnite]

116. Those options were not always easily available...

the farther back you go, the harder it can be to come by.

You can quote by clicking on the "HTML lookup table" when you're replying. It will give a list of tags that you can use.

[niyad]

120. you must be awfully young not to know about the "rule of 120"--

back in the dark ages (pre-roe v wade) many doctors ONLY performed tubal ligations or gave contraceptives with this rule: the number of children a woman had, plus her age, had to be greater than 120.

or, how about griswold v CT which was brought to overturn a rule in CT that ONLY married women would have access to any form of contraception.

seriously, look up the history of contraception

[niyad]

121. are you sure you are on the correct board?

[louslobbs]

118. When will the Republicans try to legislate masturbation/ejaculation

The policy should be coming down the line at some point with all of the Republican lunatics running the asylum. They will say, that each sperm is a potential baby, so men should not be able to masturbate without Republican sanction as millions of souls would come down from heaven to fill each sperm which could become a viable fetus and future baby. It could be called the Ejaculate Spermatozoa Death Law. Sorta like the government killing Grandma garbage. Totally phony, fraudulent and made up to distract from reality and real issues. How long would men stand for a Republican policy telling them when and where to ejaculate? Or even if they could ejaculate at all. Maybe ejaculation would just be for the rich and powerful. This would also kill two birds with one stone. Since the Republican law would dicktate where and when to ejaculate, two men could never ejaculate together and so that would kill off the gay agenda, since all gay people do all day is think of sex and ejaculate. Realize this is something that could never really happen, since Republican men only want to regulate and control the bodies of women, the less powerful of the sexes they believe. What I have just written is Some Truth and Some Sarcassm. It is free speech, not Republican hate, lies, distortion and fraud speech, they try to pass off as free speech. Women are not second class citizens regardless of how hard they try to interpret the Bible to suit their agenda and schemes. Women and Men are equal and as such equally own their own bodies. Republicans think differently, because of a brain defect found recently in Republican brains. They are more neanderthal than they are humans who have adapted to change. They would be dragging their women around by their hair if they could get away with it. Rant over.
Lou

[onager]

119. Tying this discussion to current events in Egypt...

For a Westerner-accessible look at the pressures of Egyptian life on ordinary people - which led up to the amazing recent events in that country - take a look at Alaa-Al-Aswany's 2002 novel, The Yacoubian Building.

Al-Aswany managed to hit just about every taboo of modern Egyptian life - homosexuality, political/religious corruption, ingrained misogynism, how Islamic fundamentalists are created, etc. etc.

It was made into (probably) the most expensive movie in Egyptian cinema history, with every major Egyptian film/TV star clamoring for a part in it. But please read the book first (as usual).

I lived in Alexandria, Egypt from 2005-09, which you will frequently see me ranting about on DU. Especially now.

Why is that book/movie germane to this discussion?

Because one of the characters, Soad, becomes the SECRET second wife of a wealthy and publicly devout Egyptian politician. Despite orders not to become pregnant, she does so.

The pol bribes a corrupt Islamic religious leader to try and talk sense into her: "Abortion is not expressly forbidden in the Koran, according to many learned imams..." etc. etc.

Soad laughs bitterly and says: "Those must be American imams."

:rofl:

(The dialogue is from memory, but pretty close.)

[Autumn]

122. I've had an abortion and it wasn't legal,

and it wasn't on a whim. Roe V Wade must always be protected.

[Warren DeMontague]

124. Kicked. Rec'd. No one should have to justify their decisions about their own bodies. Ever.

Thank you.