WORKERS GO MISSING: Millions Of Americans Have Given Up Looking For A Job, No Longer Counted

[AsahinaKimi]

Over the last three years, nearly 5 million U.S. workers have effectively gone missing.

You won't find their photos on the backs of milk cartons. The Coast Guard isn't out looking for them. No missing-persons reports have been filed. These are jobless Americans who have grown so discouraged by their unsuccessful searches for work that they have simply given up the hunt. They are no longer counted among the 14.5 million Americans officially considered unemployed as of the end of last year, according to the Department of Labor.



Indeed, when the government on Friday delivered its latest monthly snapshot of the labor market for January, which showed the unemployment rate falling to 9 percent, these people -- a group larger than the population of Los Angeles -- were not even counted. Some are sprinkled into the fine print, counted in categories such as "discouraged workers," but most are invisible.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/04/missing-workers-44-millio_n_818314.html

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Americans giving up and falling through the cracks, who would have ever thought this would happen?

[elocs]

1. Who exactly are these people who can just give up looking for work?

They must have a spouse or someone else to take care of them, because as a single male I have nobody else to depend on other than me. I can't just give up looking for work because I've grown too fond of eating and living in a warm home and having money to do a few other things.

[Fumesucker]

3. Homeless for one group..

Once you're homeless your chances of getting a job are nil for all practical purposes..

[elocs]

5. So being unemployed now I should choose homelessness as opposed to keep looking for work

no matter how discourage I may be? How does giving up looking for a job help my life or make it better when there is no other income but mine?

[Fumesucker]

6. No, once you can't find a job for long enough you become homeless..

And then you give up looking because no one's going to hire you anyway and besides, you're spending all your time and energy on sheer moment-to-moment survival.

When you're homeless you can't leave any of your belongings because there is nowhere to leave them that they won't have an excellent chance of being stolen, either by someone more desperate than you or by people who just enjoy fucking over others.

[sad sally]

63. "One day a man has a job, and life is full of possibilities.

The next day the job and car are gone, and the man cannot look his wife in the eye. There is no paycheck, no way to earn money for food and clothing. Life is taken up with trying to survive. It takes all the time there is this trying to survive."

Yes, these words are from a novel, set in previous years (Sea Glass by Anita Shreve); but, they seem to echo what is happening today.

[closeupready]

67. It's also the opening 15 minutes to Sunset Boulevard.

n/t

[Vinnie From Indy]

7. Your thinking in very narrow terms

Perhaps you should consider that many may have had savings or assets they are slowly liquidating. Further, many people have probably gone underground and are getting income that is not being reported in some manner or another. Many are being supported by family/friends.

I doubt that most out of work would not take a job if offered and they were able. Your post seems to imply that these people are lazy or unwilling to work.
Cheers!

[elocs]

40. I do not in any way mean to imply that these people are lazy or unwilling to work

but I do think that there must be some other income available to them in their household such as another person working which allows them to make the choice to drop out of the job market. If that is not what they are truly doing, then we are just playing with words because if you are willing to take a job, then you have not dropped out of the job market.

[riderinthestorm]

9. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you've never been homeless.

Being homeless sucks up virtually all your available time. You must find food, you must find a way to stay warm, you must guard your stuff, you must stand in line to get into the shelter at night which means you have to get there early to ensure you have a spot inside. So many details to being homeless besides the absolute soul sucking nature of it all. You are looked at with disdain and scorn, or worse which erodes your sense of self-confidence daily. Not to mention begging which is a whole other level of shame and helplessness.

But let's just say you, you alone, have magically found a way to solve all of the above problems and are ready to apply for a job. How and where do you get clean clothes for the day? How do you get yourself cleaned up and presentable? How do you get yourself to the interview without any money to pay for bus fare? Perhaps you are going to walk: how far can you walk on snowy, dirty streets without arriving dirty or sweaty or terrifically cold or hungry or what-have-you in order to present yourself as a topnotch candidate?

And last but most important, how is the employer going to contact you to offer you that job when you have no phone, address or contact location?

Because saying "the Wal Mart parking lot over on 52nd St" does jack shit for your chances. Or "under the Washington Bridge" pretty well means you aren't going to get offered that job and after a while, just the looking becomes too hard because you have no "resources": you're exhausted, numb, dirty, consumed with the minutia of trying to stay alive.

And then you give up looking for a job. Months of poor nutrition, lack of healthcare, lack of proper hygiene, daily humiliation and chronic exposure to the elements are pretty tough on the system. Do some make it? Of course. But that's pretty rare and usually they find a benefactor - someone who goes out on the limb to make sure that one person gets a shot.

[elocs]

39. So you are actually claiming that this dropping out of the job market is because of homelessness?

Sorry, that may be a part of it, but I believe that those dropping out of the job market are the second income in their household or there is another person working to help keep things going. I don't buy the homeless explanation for those who are claimed to have given up looking for work.

If I choose to drop out of the job market and no longer look for work I will assuredly become homeless because mine is the only income I have to keep my life going. So that kind of choice is no choice at all.

Oh, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the vast, vast majority of DUers have never been homeless to the extent which you describe?

[riderinthestorm]

53. I'm pointing out one facet to a complex problem.

Your facile response got my goat. What if you were a single 99er? I may have only highlighted ONE aspect of those who have dropped out, but it may very well become a large percentage.... (if it isn't already. A fact we don't know.)

And yes, there are DUers who are posting from homelessness right now.

[elocs]

70. I am an unemployed person who never got a dime of unemployment.

I will not drop out of the labor market and not look for work because that would make me homeless.

Where did I claim that no DUers were homeless? I thought so. I said that the vast majority of DUers were not homeless, so your odds of randomly coming across a poster you don't know who is homeless is very small.

[Javaman]

87. Why not claim unemployment?

Just curious.

[Toon Me Out]

52. great response

Beautifully pointed! :hi:

[Capitalocracy]

26. Choose?

That's what you think is going on here?

[elocs]

37. If you choose to give up looking for work, that is a choice.

How is it not a choice?

[Capitalocracy]

41. How many people do you know who chose to be homeless?

[elocs]

43. If I choose to give up looking for a job I will become homeless.

In my case that is certainly a choice if I'm willing to live with the consequences of that choice. But I do not believe that these numbers of people who are dropping out of the job market are due to homelessness. If you can provide a link or proof of that, then please do.

[riderinthestorm]

54. What's your proof that people are homeless because they can't find a job?

I suspect that is far easier proved. That those folks worked like hell to find a job, and finally found themselves homeless.

[elocs]

69. I am saying if I choose to quit looking for a job because it seem hopeless I would be homeless.

I don't need proof for that because I know it is true. Is this really that serious a concept to understand? I am now unemployed. If I quit the labor force and don't look for work I don't have any money and I become homeless.

If all of this dropping out of the labor market does not mean that then they should find some terminology that actually means what it is.

[totodeinhere]

71. I don't think that most of the chronically unemployed become homeless.

Some do, and when that happens, it's tragic. But I think that many more end up living with other friends or family members. I know a fifty something guy who lost his job and his house and now he lives with his elderly mother.

[TwilightGardener]

13. I think a lot of them might be people close to retirement age who

decided to quit looking and just retire for good after being laid off (I have a relative who did this). Or they might be women or men who have spouses/partners who earn enough income to where they can stay home for a while (my situation), or younger people going back to school and/or living with mom and dad.

[DCBob]

49. ding ding!

correct answer.

[Dappleganger]

17. Older workers.

[Retrograde]

25. Exactly

People in their late fifties/ early sixties who may have enough savings to tide them over to when they can collect Social Security and/or a pension (pension? what's that?) and little to no debt. Happened to me and to a number of my friends. There comes a point when you feel that if you hear "we need someone who can keep up with the pace" or some other euphemism for "you're too old" you'll go postal at the interview, and it's just not worth the frustration for an extra five years.

This is why I advise younger workers to try to live on 80% of their net pay if they possibly can and build up the biggest nest egg possible: there aren't many safety nets out there these days.

[elocs]

42. Well, I'm an older worker. Just not quite old enough to drop out of the job market.

Currently, if I choose to drop out of the job market when I have bills to pay and no other money coming in if I am not working, then I will become homeless. So for me, being a single 58 year old male, dropping out of the job market or giving up looking for a job is not an option.

[riderinthestorm]

58. You seem to be implying that older workers are "choosing" to "drop out" of the job market

Their jobs are outsourced, or they are forced to compete for a new position at the company against younger employees and then forced out when they don't "get" that job, and their old job is eliminated, or they are laid off, or any number of ways to force out older employees.

Your lack of compassion is stunning. Your company may value older workers but most are doing their damndest to eliminate the seniors and re-structure.

[elocs]

68. Reading comprehension is everything. Try it sometime. I never said that at all.

I am an older worker although not old enough for SS. I am unemployed. I am not only unemployed, but I am also living under the poverty level. So save your lecture about compassion because I am living there right now and if I choose to take myself out of the labor market I become homeless. That is a simple fact so no matter how long it takes I keep looking for work because that is the only logical thing to do.

[comtec]

76. Actually that's exactly the implication you're making

Our reading comprehension is fine.
we see your bullshit and we're calling you on it.
If you cant stand it, go back to f.... that place we're not allowed to mention because you seem to lace basic human compassion or understanding of the market.

it's hell out here in the real world.

enjoy your ivory tower, but kindly STFU

[U4ikLefty]

23. stay classy nt

[shanti]

51. STUDENTS!

i know of several out of work persons (not by choice) who resigned themselves to going to community college for the money. bad idea, imo, but hey, you gotta eat! they are very jaded about life too :(

[Lorien]

79. And I know a few who have moved back in with their parents

after all other resources were exhausted. :-(

[shanti]

82. yes

been there, done that, unfortunately with two of my sons. they're both out now, but barely.

[Curiousbird]

83. How can a single 40+ woman w/no kids, never-married give up?

Can I give up? I am a single, 49, childless, never-married, no trust-fund woman with a master's degree?
How will I survive and not become homeless. Is there help out there for me?
Can I get food stamps, health care, monthly stipend for bills?
I have worked since 16 and live in a travel trailer for 4 years to cut back.
How will I not become homeless??????? I had nightmares all night last night.

[Curiousbird]

84. Can I give up? I am a single, 49, childless, never-married, no trust-fund woman with an MA.

Can I give up? I am a single, 49, childless, never-married, no trust-fund woman with a master's degree?
How will I survive and not become homeless. Is there help out there for me?
Can I get food stamps, health care, monthly stipend for bills?
I have worked since 16 and live in a travel trailer for 4 years to cut back.
How will I not become homeless??????? I had nightmares all night last night.

[Fumesucker]

2. This ought to be good..

:popcorn:

[dmallind]

4. You are counted in U4-6 if you have looked ONCE, in any way, in a year.

Not doing that is not "discouraged", it's not interested in working. You don't even have to apply, just look.

[cutlassmama]

10. How is someone supposed to look for a job with no telephone?

Employers want to hire someone they can call on the phone. Without one a person's chances for getting the job are about nil.

Same with old folks >50. No one wants to hire them either even though they know about work ethic and don't have small children to get sick all the time. They are loyal and come to work everyday, yet employers don't want to hire them because it makes their insurance rates go up.

[dmallind]

27. Many contacts by email now - free at libraries etc. I hired two people over 50 in last year BTW

AND I repeat - you only have to have LOOKED for a job, not called.

[riderinthestorm]

59. I'm curious, did you hire them via the internet only? No phone calls or address?

The reason I ask is that the food pantry where I volunteer espouses this as a "new way" to score work but nobody I distribute food to has had a single bit of success. I would be very interested in a success story.

[katnapped]

89. Many don't even want people that are unemployed!

That's the ringer...more and more you need to have a job before another employer will consider hiring you!

[kickysnana]

11. How do they know> Nobody sent me the form to fill out. n/t

[dmallind]

24. They ASK. A huge sample that need not include you or any individual to be accurate. nt

[Paper Roses]

8. I'm one of the uncounted. I looked for 2 years and then gave up.

Guess what folks, if you are 68 years old as I am, there are no jobs out there. The company I worked for company packed up and moved down South. Laid off, collected unemployment for a while.

As with many of us who have grown old and develop medical conditions, I can't stand on my feet all day. Neither can I sit all day. Back and foot problems have limited my job search to jobs that would require constant movement.
I gave up and am now among the many old timers who have to depend on SS for my total income. What a joke. I live on less than poverty level. Every penny goes to pay a bill.

I'm learning to cook only soups, stews,pasta dishes, things from which I can get many meals.
The figures offered by the government distort the real picture.

Not just old timers like me but I'm sure there are thousands who find themselves in the same situation. BTW, In the 18 months or so of looking for a job, I had very few interviews and almost no answered e-mails that I sent with with resumes. It is very easy for a company to determine your age. They do not really want us. If they are hiring, they want young people with smaller salary requirements.

We of my generation have a very strong work ethic. Does not seem to matter any more. It is all about the buck. I still look at the job search websites but it does not look any better now than it did 2 years ago.

[CoffeeCat]

12. I live in a pretty nice suburb...

...and I currently know several people who would not be counted. They are unemployed, living in very nice
houses and everything looks normal on the outside. I think there is a mix of people who have given up.
It's people who are homeless and it's also people who are driving BMWs.

Here are the few examples that I know of: A couple was doing very well. She is a part-time teacher and he
was an executive at a large company. He gets laid off. Hard to find comparable work at the vp level, in a field
where many jobs are being shipped overseas. They've lived off of stock options and retirement for the past
three years. They have nearly exhausted their nest egg.

A woman working in marketing in the high-tech industry. Very specialized field and was doing very well. Laid off.
Had to sell home and move in with grandparents. It's been two years. This person doesn't show up on any
unemployment rolls.

Double income household living in McMansion. She was laid off from a publishing job. He was laid off from a
a high-tech mgmt position. Her field is lukewarm, but she is working full-time in retail until publishing
comes back. He started his own IT business that is doing ok--but not well. They've both been unemployed
for two years and have been living off of savings that is rapidly dwindling.

I think this problem exists at all income levels. And at no matter what income level--people are being sucked
dry of whatever they have.

[Badfish]

14. They aren't missing.

They just slipped from the middle class to the lower class , and some slipped from the lower class to poverty.

They are missing from the middle class.

[SoCalDem]

15. They got the brush off

Jay-Z video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz_-VaTHpc8

[cbdo2007]

16. How can people just not find a job? If I was unemployed for more than

a few months I'd be up working at Caribou Coffee or Barnes & Noble or at some local call center or something.

Sure it wouldn't be equivalent to what I have now but it would pay the bills and keep me from getting "discouraged". Maybe some of these people need to more to where the jobs are if they aren't in their area.

[Badfish]

18. "How can people just not find a job?"

Thats sounds like an argument for full employment , 0% unemployment.

[cbdo2007]

20. No, but eventually most people should be able to find jobs.

[jtown1123]

33. Really? I know lots of people who worked for free, interned, networked

did everything right, applied for hundreds of jobs and didn't get a bite. That's why we have high unemployment right now...there aren't enough jobs. That's how they can't find them. They don't exist.

[riderinthestorm]

56. I'll go out on a limb with you too, and state that you are a youngish white male

and that you aren't supporting a large family or elders or extended family. That you are young enough that you can walk away from your home (if you own) and take the hit to your credit. Perhaps even young enough to file for bankruptcy and be okay in 10 yrs. That you don't suffer from a disability (like a broken back from a car wreck that precludes you from working at Starbucks). That you have some other kind of support system that could actually help FUND a move to another city, and that you have decent enough transportation to actually make that trip.

Saying something like "most people should be able to find jobs" doesn't factor in soooo many things, I can only guess you have never been on the outside looking in. A minority, disabled, saddled with responsibilities you can't walk away from, etc. etc. etc.

[totodeinhere]

72. Besides that, in many areas even minimum wage jobs are impossible to find.

Try finding even a job at McDonald's in Las Vegas.

[Dappleganger]

19. Not everyone has a Caribou Coffee or B&N in their neck of the woods.

You're not getting that the typical teenage jobs have been completely taken over by educated people who are either out of work or underemployed (working 2 jobs or more).

Many people don't have the option to move because they are tied to the area, have no money to just up and leave or they are underwater in their homes and cannot sell.

[Safetykitten]

21. Why not test your little theory?

[cbdo2007]

32. I have been testing it the past month or so.

My current job is not very stable and my wife and I have decided we want more stability so I've been out talking to a handful of companies. Of the 5 that I've talked to, 3 of them said they didn't have anything immediately available for me but that they'd be happy to have me in their call center to get my foot in the door until other positions at the company open up.

We're holding out on the call center job currently while I'm still looking for something that pays a little more and is more in my area of expertise.

[U4ikLefty]

28. Well you are obviously better that those lazy losers

:sarcasm:

[jtown1123]

31. Not every community even has those opportunities

People with law degrees are working at Starbucks. People can't move because they can't sell their homes or they don't have enough money for a security deposit and they can't risk relocating without a position lined up. It's rough out there. There just aren't enough jobs for everyone.

[KamaAina]

45. If, that is, Caribou Coffee didn't consider you to be "overqualified"

i.e. not satisfied with shitty pay and benefits, likely to leave if/when a real job comes along.

[comtec]

46. What a nice universe you live in

The one most of us are in, however, are constantly being told they are overqualified!!!!
I'd love a job at CC or BnN, or Starbucks.
The thing is that I'm qualified to be a manager at those places.
While im willing to start at the bottom as a barrista, they won't hire me!
There is a way of thinking that I'm gonna leave as soon as something better comes along.
Not unreasonable, but seriously it's a HIGH TURNOVER position. I'm gonna stick around longer than most people they hire!

Small minded thinking. I'm casting my CV to anywhere, covering three states and Europe!

So im happy that your life is so wonderful that you can walk into work without concern.
YAY YOU!!!!

otherwise FUCK OFF!!!!

The rest of us have to live in the real world, where we work our fucking asses off just to scrape together gas money!
Did I mention that I also don't have insurance money!?

[cbdo2007]

47. How do they know you're overqualified?

[comtec]

48. it's called a CV

or as you yanks say, Resume.
I suppose you're comfortable lying your sorry little ass off to an employer.
I'm not.

My most recent experience was assisting in sales that sometimes his a million+ Euros for one order, for high-tech Audio / video equipment in holland.

I can handle an espresso machine.

[cbdo2007]

50. Come on....

people with sales experience can get a sales job anywhere. They'll pretty much let ANYONE do sales on the off chance they turn out to be good. They'll even let me do sales and I don't know anything about sales.

Where are you looking, Minneapolis?

I'm not saying to lie on your resume, but if you go in there with a resume and an attitude that they're intimidated by they're going to think you want to come in and run the place. Tone it down and just highlight your customer service and omit any highly technical stuff from it. Just tell them you're looking for a change and wanting to try something different. The Mcdonald's in Dodge Center isn't hiring? McDonald's is always hiring. How about the Malt-O-Meal Headquarters, isn't that around there somewhere?

[riderinthestorm]

61. You are saying lie on your resume. You say it outright "tone it down".

If that's not lying, I don't know what is. And corps like McDonalds are savvy about hiring anyone full time so they don't have to pay benefits. Their average hire now only gets 20 - 30 hours so they can avoid bennies. And I'd also like to know how the average mother of 2 or 3 is supposed to work 2 part time jobs (with the commuting time in between), manage her family, and also have time to apply for even more jobs! You have got to be kidding me. I'll go even further out on a limb and say you don't have kids.....

And yes, I know experienced sales guys who cannot get a job! One guy worked for Range Rover as a district manager, and also owned his own dealership. He got pancreatic cancer and sold everything to get healthy. But 4 years later, at 55 yrs old, with a cancer history, nobody will touch him. Nobody. Not any car lot in the area will even hire him on straight commission. And this is a guy with a proven history in car sales!

[comtec]

77. without my technical background I am still overqualified

because then i can legitimately put 20 years customer and food service experience.
10 of that operating a till, register, or hundreds of thousands of dollars and euro's worth of inventory - per job.
Paid instructor for 4 of those years.

I have been told I come off as "over competent" and I scare off managers, because they think i'm going to make them look bad and inefficient.

I suppose that's the truth. I put a great deal of pride into whatever job I hold. My client satisfaction ratings are always sky high. When I was working at a gas station i would REGULARLY get bonus checks from secret shoppers for excellent assistance.

THAT is one reason why i have such a hard time getting low-level jobs.

I was considering not bothering to respond, you are clearly just an ivory tower troll with no clue or understanding about the real world. I don't care how old you are, you are a inexperienced twit when it comes to reality.

I don't suffer fools anymore, that that too comes off.
I've had too many morons of managers to put up with it for long.
I do my work and I'm fucking good at it too. That too scares off managers.

[uppityperson]

74. they look at your resume? At your education? At your age?

maybe those might be a tip off?

[neverforget]

57. Because you're not the only unemployed person. There are hundreds of

applicants for jobs if not thousands for some. The competition is fierce. I know 3 people that were laid off from the company I work for 14 months ago that have not found a job. It's that bad here.

[uppityperson]

73. 2 college degrees, mid 50's = overqualified and apt to move on

So much for coffee shop or bookstore hiring.

You would like me to "move where the jobs are" how? Live in my car since I can't afford first/last/damage deposit and let my mortgaged house get repossessed? Thanks for the support. And, where are those jobs? Those minimum wage jobs that will give me enough to move on and live on? Where?

[Lorien]

80. Good luck finding a minimum wage job in my town (Orlando)

with tourism down the masses of unemployed former minimum wage workers are at an all time high. Restaurants and hotels keep closing down, the Barnes and Noble cut it's hours, and several coffee shops have gone belly up. Being 45 and competing with 23 year old UCF grads? I think not. "Just finding a job" is not possible in many areas of the country.

[treestar]

22. this has always been used to rain on any improvement in the job market

How long did they look before giving up?

How do we even know this is true? When they do employment statistics, do they go down to the names? Very possibly this is a fiction created by anyone who does not want to see the market improve.

Some of them could have died of natural causes. Retired. Found a sugar mama. Moved to another country. There's nothing to prove who they were and that they still need a job. And if they still need a job, they should still be looking.

[LibertyLover]

29. My husband is one of them

About 10 years ago we started work on adopting a child. Because I made more money than he did, we decided that if we were fortunate enough to adopt, he would stay home with her for a few years until she went to school full-time while I continued to work. Before we had even submitted our paperwork, one evening he came home and announced that he had quit work that afternoon because he needed to see if he could handle staying home all day. He worked his 2 weeks' notice and that was about the last time he worked. A year later we were notified that we had been assigned a child, a 16 month old little girl, so now he had an excuse to stay home and not work. But I figured our deal that he would go back to work when she went to school full-time was still in place. Silly me. We have full day kindergarten in our county and so a few years back the kidlet was in school full-time. I asked if he were going to find a job and was told that of course he couldn't because he couldn't find anything that would let him get her off to school and be there when she got home. So, home he stayed, bitching that being a house husband was boring, that he didn't have enough money to fund his hobbies and that he was tired of cooking 4 nights a week. Things went from bad to worse and I had to declare bankruptcy and lost my house to foreclosure because I couldn't pay the mortgage. Did that spur him to find a job? Well, he went through the motions on Craigslist, I think he even went on an interview or two, but nothing came of it. We've been renting now for 2 and half years and all I hear when I get home from work is how bored he is, how tired he is, how sick he is, how much his various body parts hurt. A week ago, I had a small accident during a nasty snow and ice storm while on my way home. I told him as soon as I got in the door. Did he ask me if I was ok? No, he did not - he ranted and raved and screamed for close to half an hour about how I had deliberately done it to cause him anxiety. If the ax had been within reach, I might be sitting in jail right now instead of at work and typing this response. He gave me the silent treatment during dinner and later that evening complained that he was having chest pains - his all purpose excuse to get out of anything. He got doubly mad at me when my response to the chest pain announcement was a "let me know if you want me to call the ambulance" rather than a more solicitous comment. He did work for a few weeks a couple of years ago as the 'lunch person' for our school system, but after a few weeks of having to get out the door and work, he quit. He also worked at the local Ren Faire for 2 weekends, coming home and bitching each of the 4 nights, but I never saw any of the money he made - it all went to his model train hobby or his car. So, anyway, he is no longer looking for a job and is no longer counted as unemployed.

[cbdo2007]

30. It's obvious here though that the problem is your husband, not the job situation.

You make it sound like he never seriously looked for a job and when he found one he didn't like it because he was having too much fun not working.

[LibertyLover]

34. You are correct, he is the problem

however, he is still not counted as "unemployed".

[cbdo2007]

36. I'm sorry. I hope that he can take some responsibility soon and

get out there looking again for your sake. Good luck to you.

[Statistical]

55. Well he shouldn't be.

If he has no intention to work then he is rightfully classified as "Not In The Work Force".

Sorry about your situation sounds really bad.

[TwilightGardener]

44. Is it possible he's depressed, or lacks confidence/self-esteem to go back into the job market

because his resume and skills are rusty, or he'd have a hard time explaining no job for ten years? He might feel trapped, and unhappy. Obviously you feel that way too. You guys need some counseling or something. Good luck, I hope your situation improves.

[raccoon]

85. self-delete nt

[saras]

35. I think 5 million is an underestimate

"a few months I'd be up working at Caribou Coffee or Barnes & Noble or at some local call center or something."

No, you wouldn't - that's just a fantasy. Those places have way too many young, ambitious applicants to hire over-50s with health issues. You wouldn't even be considered, unless you're a fresh young person with a fresh degree. And if you just don't have the emotional makeup to be subservient, it's that much harder. People who used to be independent often have a hard time being told to do stupid, wrong things by stupid, wrongheaded people. And people who have a hard time lying just don't last long at call centers (everyone I know who tried was out of there after less than ten calls, whether voluntarily or not).

A lot of them probably are working, just under the table. They're certainly not sitting at home watching TV. You can do elder care in people's homes (the elders don't want to live in an institution, and will very gradually accept more and more assistance, as long as they can pretend it's a maid or housecleaner), you can fix houses for those who can't afford the local contractors who got spoiled by the building boom and can't or won't lower their rates to what people can afford, you can keep old computers and other tech going for people who can't afford new stuff, you can grow too much food in your garden and sell some on the side, raise chickens to sell the eggs, keep old cars running for those who can't afford newer ones, sell stuff on eBay or elsewhere. I could go on for a long time, and many people do more than one of these. Many places - cities and rural areas - have a whole secondary economy. And most of its members make little enough money that they don't have to worry about the IRS.

I hardly know anybody with a 'regular' job, mostly because they are made too uncomfortable by the very existence of people like me. I'm currently in school getting a degree, but frankly I expect to be so poor for the rest of my life that I'll have no hope of making anything beyond token payments towards my student loans.

Sometimes I think that's what makes the pseudo-conservatives on DU - the people who have ungodly crappy corporate jobs and have to keep compulsively repeating the corporate dogma at anyone they can, in order to believe enough of it themselves to force themselves to go to work tomorrow.

[OnyxCollie]

66. "Sometimes I think that's what makes the pseudo-conservatives on DU-

the people who have ungodly crappy corporate jobs and have to keep compulsively repeating the corporate dogma at anyone they can, in order to believe enough of it themselves to force themselves to go to work tomorrow."

It's called System Justification Theory. It's why the poor keep voting for republicans, even though they are voting against their own interests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_justification

[Kennah]

38. I wonder how much longer ...

... before we follow in the footsteps of Egypt.

[Forkboy]

60. The best thing about poverty threads on DU is that it draws out the douchebags, without fail.

[riderinthestorm]

62. Jayzus fucking christ. I am pissed. off.

You are right. I need to walk away from this thread. Thanks for the reminder Forkboy. How are you doing? Heard you have had a run of bad luck lately....

Hugs. I'm not the praying type but you have some good vibes emanating from Northern IL....

[Forkboy]

64. I am well!

:)

Thanks. :hug:

[uppityperson]

75. you aren't the only one

hang in there and ignore the assholes. It is a difficult time right now for many of us and having others be oh so superior really doesn't help. It does tell us more about them than they might like though.

[Lorien]

81. Yep. Closeted and not so closeted "let them eat cake" Reaganites. nt

[Safetykitten]

65. They and millions of others will never get them back. Ever.

This is a tectonic shift that we are living through now. Things will NEVER be like they were. Offices will be smaller, if they exist at all. New technology will have a larger and larger share of people working from home and thanks to our wonderfull new HCR fiasco, most will be 1099's.

Your future if you like it or not, college or not, for the majority of people will be more work, for less money, with no benefits, from a remote location.

[raccoon]

86. I think you're right. Wish it weren't so but I think that's how it is. nt

[Lorien]

78. I was unemployed for most of the past 2 1/2 years, but as a self employed person

I never showed up on any unemployment rolls. I can't apply for unemployment. Neither can my self employed business owning friends. whenever you see a small business closing down, you're seeing yet MORE workers entering the job market who will never be counted among the unemployed. My sister and three of our cousins are currently unemployed, and only one of my cousins can/ has ever collected unemployment because she's the only one of us who wasn't her own boss.

[ck4829]

88. This will only get worse unless drastic measures are implemented ASAP

We'll need:
An employer of last resort (That will provide a paycheck with little to no questions asked)
Fully funded and new social programs
Cut the vicious cycles (Like creating legislation to protect job seekers from credit checks (Because your credit's not really going to go up if you can't pay your bills, right?) and asking employers to stop the practice of only looking for job seekers who are currently employed)

This will all be called "socialism" by the right, but it will need to be done or else we will face further damage to the labor force.