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Maybe God was sending a message with the Gifford's shooting.

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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:04 PM
Original message
Maybe God was sending a message with the Gifford's shooting.
Edited on Mon Feb-07-11 06:05 PM by Renew Deal
I've wanted to post the contents of this quote for a few weeks now, and today it showed up in my inbox.

"Two weeks ago, we saw a white, Catholic, Republican judge murdered on his way to greet a Jewish, Democratic congresswoman, who was his friend. Her life was saved initially by a Mexican-American gay college student, and eventually by a Korean-American combat surgeon. Then it was all eulogized by our African-American president. In a tragic event, that's a remarkable statement about this country." ~Allen Ginsberg

I noticed the same thing Allen Ginsberg did. The shooting was tragic. But the truth of his statement is profound. I know that the cause of the shooting is terrible, but maybe there was a lesson in it. Maybe God was trying to tell us something. It shows the diversity of this country, but also that the worlds people can live together successfully regardless of age, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, and religion.

Allen didn't point out that the main spokesperson for the hospital was a republican former Surgeon General and an older woman was partly responsible for disarming the shooter. Another reason this might have hit us so hard was that many of us could identify with the people involved.

O8)
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. It was Mark Sheilds that said that.
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
39. Whew - glad you said that. I was afraid that Alan Ginsberg had become a ZOMBIE!
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Why didn't the alleged shooter merit a little ethnic description?
Or would that spoil the whole Kum-ba-yah moment?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Does it matter either way?
What if the shooter wasn't a white male psycho? :shrug:
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Why do we need gods to solve man-made problems
Get rid of all the fugging weapons of mass murder
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Does this include rocks?
:shrug:
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Rocks can only murder one person at a time...
So it's not a weapon of mass murder.
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Kennah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. With or without a human accomplice?
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montanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks for the message God, please
don't send any more like it. Fact is, that's why some of us have no use for this "God" person, or his crazy fucking messages sent in the form of senseless violence.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. lol
:rofl:
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. +1, n/t
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Sonoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Man, I need Him as my manager/scheduler/organizer.
The Dude is really good and I could use the help.

Sonoman
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. And, fwiw,
A federal appeals court has upheld $78,000 in damages to illegal immigrants who were held at gunpoint by a rancher in the southern Arizona desert, a case that prompted death threats against a federal judge who was fatally shot last month in Tucson.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/02/04/BAA61HJ29A.DTL&feed=rss.news
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
10. P.S. The spokesman for the hospital was not Richard Carmona.
Perhaps you need some better source for your information.

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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Should I have said "one of"
:shrug: I saw him on the TV machine myself.
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Did you see Allen Ginsberg on the TV machine yourself?
Allen Ginsberg (June 3, 1926 – April 5, 1997)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Ginsberg
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. Maybe next time, "God" could just send an e-mail saying "Everyone play nicely"...nt
Sid
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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
15. When you believe God teaches you a lesson in the goodness of diversity
by having people blown away it's time you find another religion!

A mentally ill person egged on by right wing propaganda caused the event not GOD!
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
16. "Maybe God was trying to tell us something."
Giant letters dripping fire in the sky would have been just as effective and it wouldn't have cost near as much suffering and pain.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
17. A nine-year-old girl was murdered. How, pray, does that figure in?
Edited on Mon Feb-07-11 06:28 PM by WinkyDink
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
18. If this is how god communicates, then he is an asshole.
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:32 PM
Original message
god had very little to do with the shootings. In fact I find the suggestion offensive.
A number of brave and heroic, as well as lucky, unlucky, tragic and horrible things happened that day,and continue to happen because of it. But everything is due to people. I agree with your sentiment. I reject the supernatural spin.
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Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
25. but god created the bullets... didn't he?




:sarcasm:
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
19. Maybe God planned the attack.
We will never know.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
21. allen ginsberg died in 1997

Born Irwin Allen Ginsberg
June 3, 1926
Newark, New Jersey, United States of America
Died April 5, 1997 (aged 70)
New York City, New York, United States of America
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #21
33. Another Miracle!
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. lol. I knew he was a powerful writer - but - wow. beyond the grave! n/t
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
22. Allen Ginsberg is still alive?
He must be like a hundred and twenty by now.

I was sure he was no longer with us.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
23. It never ceases to amaze me
how people who profess to believe in an omnipotent, merciful deity can justify suffering in the world that the deity either allows, or even plans.

It's the principal reason I'm an atheist.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Probably because we were kicked out of the garden of Eden ...
because Eve tempted by the serpent ate fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God was worried that next Adam and Eve would eat fruit from the Tree of Life which would have enabled them to live forever.

"And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." (Genesis 3:22)<3>

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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Do you really believe that fairy tale?
You offer me the old, tired, "If something bad happens, it's because man disobeyed God, but if something good happens, it's because God caused it."

That's a pretty neat little way to tie up all the questions, isn't it?
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. I should have included the sarcasm thingy ...
Actually the ancient myths of all religions are very interesting and possibly revealing.

For example the Flood story is common in many religions and may in fact be based on an actual flood or catastrophe.


Some geologists believe that quite dramatic, unusually great flooding of rivers in the distant past might have influenced the legends. One of the latest, and quite controversial, hypotheses of this type is the Ryan-Pitman Theory, which argues for a catastrophic deluge about 5600 BC from the Mediterranean Sea into the Black Sea. This has been the subject of considerable discussion, and a news article from National Geographic News in February 2009 reported that the flooding might have been "quite mild".<2>

There also has been speculation that a large tsunami in the Mediterranean Sea caused by the Thera eruption, dated about 1630–1600 BC geologically, was the historical basis for folklore that evolved into the Deucalion myth. Although the tsunami hit the South Aegean Sea and Crete it did not affect cities in the mainland of Greece, such as Mycenae, Athens, and Thebes, which continued to prosper, indicating that it had a local rather than a regionwide effect.<3>

Another theory is that a meteor or comet crashed into the Indian Ocean around 3000–2800 BC, created the 30 kilometres (19 mi) undersea Burckle Crater, and generated a giant tsunami that flooded coastal lands.<4>

It has been postulated that the deluge myth may be based on a sudden rise in sea levels caused by the rapid draining of prehistoric Lake Agassiz at the end of the last Ice Age, about 8,400 years ago.<5>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth


I became interested in myths when as a teenager I read the first book of the bible, Genesis. I noticed a few interesting verses. For example:

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (Genesis 1:26,27)

"And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." (Genesis 3:22)

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. (Genesis 6:4)

Over the years I've often wondered if some aliens visited our planet in the far past and messed around with our ancestor's DNA. I realize that it's a far fetched theory but to me it is more believable than the story of Adam, Eve and the talking serpent.

On the positive side I get to argue this ancient astronaut theory with those who believe that the Bible is the literal word of God. It's always fun to point out to them that there are two creation stories in Genesis. In the first man is created on the sixth day after birds and animals and in the second man is created before birds and animals.




The opening passages of the Book of Genesis consecutively contain two creation stories. In the first story God progressively creates the different features of the world over a series of six days, resting on the seventh day.(Gen. 1:1–2:3)

Creation is performed by divine incantation: on the first day God says, "Let there be light!" and light appears. On the second day God creates an expanse (firmament) to separate the waters above (the sky) from those below (the ocean/abyssos). On the third day God commands the waters below to recede and make dry land appear, and fills the earth with vegetation. God then puts lights in the sky to separate day from night to mark the seasons. On the fifth day, God creates sea creatures and birds of every kind and commands them to procreate. On the sixth day, God creates land creatures of every kind. Man and woman are created last, after the entire world is prepared for them; they are created in the image of God, and are given dominion and care over all other created things. God rests on the seventh and final day of creation as Sabbath, which he marks as holy.

In the second story the creation of man follows the creation of the heavens and earth, but occurs before the creation of plants and animals.(Gen. 2:4–2:25)

God takes dirt (adamah, ochre) from the ground to form a man and breathes life into him. God prepares a garden in the East of Eden and puts the man there, then fills it with trees bearing fruit for him to eat. The man is invited to eat the fruit of any tree but one: the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God commands the man not to eat of that one tree "for when you eat of it you will surely die."(Gen. 2:17)

Birds and animals are then created as man's companions and helpers, and God presents them to the man. The first man gives names to each one, but finds none of them to be "like him." So God puts the first man into a deep sleep and removes something from man's side, and uses it to make the first woman. "For this reason," the text reads, "a man will leave his father and mother for his wife, and they shall be joined as one flesh."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_creation_narrative


So the answer to your question is that I do not believe the garden myth is the literal truth but may be based on events that happened in man's far past. Myths are often the smoke of history.

I tend to believe much like the founding fathers.


None of the Founding Fathers were atheists. Most of the Founders were Deists, which is to say they thought the universe had a creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans, and does not directly communicate with humans, either by revelation or by sacred books. They spoke often of God, (Nature's God or the God of Nature), but this was not the God of the bible.
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html


Actually my views on why God allows evil are summed up here:



For most Deists, the answer is simply that God is not good or evil but just “is.” Deists do not assign human characteristics to God and therefore do not have the problem of a good vs. bad God that plagues so many other theological viewpoints. This answer is not one that gives you much ease but does not produce such contradictions that tend to exist. God is not viewed as a “being” that allows evil to exist but is seen in abstract terms (which is what Reason demands). God does not have the burden of being made in man’s image but instead is incomprehensible and indefinable in human understanding and terms. Therefore, it makes no sense to apply human ideas and views onto God but instead God must be looked at from a vantage point that we cannot truly view from. So, God is not good or evil but is something else altogether.
http://moderndeism.com/html/faq_s.html











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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
24. That message is there are kooks everywhere in this country.
There are nutjobs, that simple. This is not a religious problem, this is a human nature problem.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
28. One violent ass god!!! nt.
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-07-11 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
30. So you're saying that god thought it was worth it to put a bullet in Gifford's head.
And kill several other people, one of which was a nine-year-old girl? Seems like someone like "god" could come up with a better plan, but I'm sure Gifford's family and the rest of the families appreciates their loved ones "sacrifices."

Oh, and Allen Ginsberg has been dead for years.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
31. Your OP is so absurd I almost like it. nt
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
32. DU works in mysterious ways
Holy Cow!
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
34. So God killed those people
to teach us a lesson?

I guess that makes sense.

I was always amazed at how many folks had to die so we could all pass calculus.
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
35. "EAT AT JOE'S"
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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-08-11 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
38. If god had anything to do with it he/she is an asshole.
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